EvilGeko

Probably to give the trials a period of exclusivity. That way the folks who would have ignored them out of hand at least give them a try.

Let's say they had allowed people to do ITFs for threads/thread components. Would people decide to do a TF they've done a hundred times before and know like the back of their hand, or would they take the time to learn two new encounters designed to be more difficult, even if those missions would eventually become as easy as an ITF.

I know what I think the answer is. I'll leave it to you to come up with your own.

FYI: As I was writing this, I also put a post up on the DCUO forums arguing for solo content. I have no beef with solo content, or non-trial content or any of it. My point is to give the devs a break. What they're doing isn't as crazy or as mean-spirited or controlling as you all are making it out to be. Even if they are ultimately making a mistake, let's see what they do because over time they have always given us what we wanted eventually.

Organizing, even if easy, is harder than selecting a mission and entering. Why you choose to come up with the irrelevant analogy of soloing a Lambda is beyond me.

Slower doesn't mean it's not still the path of least resistance. Soloing even if slower is almost always easier than any group option. Just the organizing makes it so. Soloing is almost always easier because it's designed to the lower common denominator where group content need not be. Solo content is often easier, even if it's pretty hard because it can be grouped. See e.g. Ramiel arc which is beyond trivial with even one more person on the team.

Of course, none of this is necessarily set in stone. You could make solo content that is actually harder. I just don't think that would be considered a legitimate solo option by some folks. See again e.g. Ramiel arc.

Not at all. It's been shown in this very game over and over. From dumpster diving to the Winter Lord debacle to the AE exploits, people have taken the path of least resistance in derogation of their own fun.

Likewise folks have always made extremely reasonable arguments for why the developers shouldn't try to force us to play the way they want us to. And I'm sure that for many people there is no need to be herded into any particular content. But, there is a non-zero number of people who do need to be herded into activities. The devs believe this. Whether it is true is all but irrelevant, they believe it and act accordingly. All MMORPG developers do. Our developers at least are sympathetic to your argument. Other games they would have just said 'no' and moved on to create more raids.

That's not true even of this instance. From all accounts both the WST and the Incarnate trials have generated exactly the response the devs intended from the playerbase.

Question. Do you find standing around while another player powerlevels you fun?

Rhetorical question. Many players will do that rather than actually play the game. People will always take the path that they perceive to be the one of least resistance even if it isn't the most fun. Many people want a solo option. But for a large subset of those folks, it has nothing to do with thinking the trials aren't fun. It's because soloing is easier, even if it's slower.

It's easy to beat up the devs because they "force us to play their way." Hell, I used to do it to. But that's part of their job. To save us from our own worst impulses for the betterment of the game. Is this a situation that qualifies? Maybe. Some people might never have tried the trials were they not the de facto only means of advancing. They would have used whatever views they had about raiding, whatever excuse they could manufacture to just take the solo route exclusively. And they would have missed out on fun.

Now is that everyone? No. But if the devs believe(d) enough people need to be herded into the trials so that they would at least try them, I'm not going to begrudge them that. The solo option will come along in time.

How many people use the trials to unlock the Alpha slot?

People run TFs for Alpha components because it's significantly easier than grinding out shards. Likewise when they eventually add a solo content path to the later slots it will be significantly slower than the trials for the same reasons.

Yummy!

What side effects? MOG is just pure awesome these days.

FYI: the OP said he's been gone 3-4 years. If that's correct we're talking 2007. That's Issue 9-10 territory. All the major nerfs to Regen were long done by that point. It's really only been buffed since then.

I look at it like this. I genuinely find Hamidon raids fun. But if there were a solo mission that offered 4 shards or 53 merits or a HO/SHO for the exact same time commitment, then I don't know that I would ever do a Hamidon again. Why?

Soloing is just less of a hassle than grouping. Grouping is great when it's effortless. I love when I log in, check the globals and see someone recruiting for something I wanted to do. Takes the hassle away. It's not the actual activity I dislike, it's the set-up and out of character stuff. This is why WoW's grouping queues are starting to crop up in every game. Those things take a MAJOR hassle out of grouping by making the server do it for you. They introduce new problems unfortunately, but ultimately they make the experience of forming groups easier.

In my experience, which is admittedly anecdotal, most solo focused players don't really mind the group activity, they mind the grouping process.

This.

If we call it Issue 21, then people will complain that there's no content for: [insert your preferred playstyle]. It's Issue 20.5.

I don't disagree with you and have argued more than most of you know against the path the devs took. But we all have to recognize that the devs WILL move incrementally in this.

A bit off-topic to the solo thing, but the most recent patch offered a major bone that I'm not really sure has sunk in yet. A Notice now gives 40 threads. That's enough (with inf) to unlock Alpha or Judgment or Interface all by itself. It's only 5 short of what's needed to unlock Destiny and Lore. That's a MAJOR boon for those who don't want to do the trials.

I think the idea that the devs are moving towards is one where you have one-two trial runners, but can still advance any or all of your level 50s. They just don't seem to be interested in supporting the extreme soloist right now, but people willing to meet them half-way will probably find the system to be much more accommodating after Incarnates Ascend goes live. My guess is that the recent moves will open the Incarnate system to 90+% of the playerbase. Sure folks aren't going to be getting all T3-T4s in a week like hardcore trial runners, but right now a month of play with only an occassional trial here and there, plus doing the WST would result in all slots opened and commons or better in all slots. That's not bad in my book. It's enough that I'm not going to beat the devs up too much for not providing my perfect solo path to this stuff.

I want to be clear about something. I very much want a solo path. I have several characters who I have little desire to run the trials with, but would like to make some progress in the incarnate system. But I don't want some easy-mode system that kills the trials. Because they are fun. And if the devs make the solo path too accessible then yes it will hurt the trials.

Bill, I already suggested something for soloists that most people agreed with: EvilGeko's Incarnate Strikes

it's based on an idea that was much closer to your idea that generated much arguing in one of the betas. Personally, I know YOU want a difficult good solo path. But most folks do not. When they say solo they mean solo for a Empath/Psi defender on +0/x1. The devs set the line much more harshly for soloists than I would. But some folks, not you, want a solo path that is only slightly slower than the trial path.

It's not going to happen. That's not saying I disagree with it, just that the devs aren't going to do it. At least not until we're well along in the Incarnate system. Probably a year at least after Issue 20.

It does if it's meant to deal with a specific complaint. Namely, many of the solo focused folk have stated that they don't want to "grind endless trials" for stuff. Well, assuming (and I'm aware I could be making a donkey out of you and me for doing so) that the Incarnate stores allow you buy threads with a currency other than Astrals or Empyreans (which would be stupid admittedly), then this does offer a means for people who like to solo a way to avoid "grinding endless trials."

I.e. unlock the stores, then perhaps you may need to grind out billions of influence or something, but you'll have access to the stuff without having to do the trials over and over.

But hopefully all this stuff will be on beta on the 31st and we can see for ourselves.

ROFL! OK, that was funny.

I just noticed this. And Bill should know by now that this isn't a solo path that will be accepted by the playerbase. Sure it's a solo path for his tricked out characters. Mine too. But a difficult arc locked at +4 (at least until level shifts are added) would get just as much complaining and whining as requiring people to do trials, if not more.

The Ramiel arc, a slightly more difficult than normal arc, seemed to cause outsized levels of complaining. Why would such a content path be any different?

I didn't get that sense. How it read to me was that doing a trial opens access to the Incarnate store. Similar to how finishing Penelope Yin's arc opens Yin's market.

If said store only accepts A and E merits, then when need to change Positron's name to Anti-Matter because that's absolutely EPIC trolling of the playerbase.

While Marauder is talking crap, let me just leave you with one word on that point:

/auctionhouse

Well, I'll leave you all to your complaints then. I've been arguing about this stuff since last summer. Eventually, you'll the devs will give you all what you want. Probably not on a timeframe that will make you happy, but what can you do?

Oh you guys are snippy tonight.

It is. When he gets riled up, it's fun to argue with him. But it's like playing with hornets!

Calling someone a worthless piece of **** is not equivalent to denouncing someone's OPINIONS.

Yours is an attack on the speaker. Mine is an attack on the message. There is a major difference. Ideas can be savaged, but there is no need to insult the person.

It's a little more than just killing a couple of AVs. But you know that.

The existence of a solo path is not a right.

I'm not sure what a "****" is, but we've had this fight before. Not sure why you feel the need to go so negative for someone having a different opinion, but I'm happy to take on that title whatever it is. There is no solo path that will ever be as fast, or anywhere near as fast as a 24 man raid. Reason being there will never be solo content that this playerbase will allow to be a difficult and interesting as the 24 man raid. This has been shown conclusively by the ridiculous complaining about the easy as pie Ramiel arc.

I'm the progenitor, I'll have you know!

That's said, all I can do is try not to get too snarky. In any other game soloers being given a path, any path to raiders gear/power is considered patently absurd. I know, you all don't play those games. But you are playing a MMORPG. One where the devs have made ample and reasonable accommodations to those who prefer to solo. You all apparently disagree. So be it.

But your position is unreasonable and worthy of derision.