EvilGeko

The fact that the trials don't come with the same debuff as Tin Mage/Apex makes me wonder how hard-locked out of the content we'll truly be.

It's certainly possible, perhaps even problems that the final battle with Tyrant will assume you have some Incarnate shifts. If for no other reason than to ensure it isn't a cakewalk. But at this rate that could be many trials down the line. And even then, it's not certain that you'll strictly REQUIRE that folks have the Incarnate shifts. I think back to the now trivial STF and LRSF. Monumental challenges in the I7-I9 world of folks without billions invested in IOs. Even before Incarnates, these TFs were cake with IOs. But IOs aren't required to do those TFs. They just make it MUCH more manageable.

Good strategy and the same buffer overrun that has existed all along will still count for more than all the shinies in the world I'll bet.

Depends on the makeup of the PUG. Sufficient enough support with a few tanks would make up for individual deficiencies in folks' build. Yes, the normal PUG doesn't have such a well designed makeup so I concede the point for the majority of PUGs.

I have reason to believe that at least in the near future that will not be the case. Maybe after they add the next 5 slots as you said. But then I don't expect another level shift until Omega.

I don't think that concern is sound. The devs have never locked players into a hard 'gear check' form of progression. The BAF and Lambda trials were tested for weeks without even having the Alpha level shift. Having a very strong Invention build helps, but isn't required. The new Keyes trials doesn't require that you have the earlier slots. None of the new high level TFs added since Issue 9 (ITF, LGTF, Kahn/Barracuda) require strong Inventions builds.

The only content that strictly could be seen as having a gear check is Apex/Tin Mage. And they appear in hindsight to be an anomaly. So, coming from a game (EQ2) which has a merciless gear check form of progression, I can understand your fear. I just don't think it's likely that your fears will be realized in this game.

Please don't imply a majority, because it wasn't there. It was, like most issues, the people who argued for it which could have been a majority, but no one has done a poll to my knowledge.

Besides, the system has 3 independent deterministic means for earning rare/very rare components. I've read this thread and people talk of doing 100 trials and not getting a very rare. Well, 30 Empyreans means you get your very rare. The drops at the end of the Trials are like random loot in other MMOs. It's there along with the token system so that every playthrough isn't always the same. The little gambling element of it is appreciated by me.

As to the overall topic. Just play. Do the WST, do the trials, solo. Have fun in the game and the rewards will come. I haven't done a trial in over a week. I had a couple ideas for alts and so I made alts. Been having a lot of fun with them. Not been stressed out by wanting shiny things. The incarnate powers are nice. They make your character much stronger. But ultimately, if you start to hate the game for having earned them, was it worth it?

The biggest concern IMO from moving this set to Tankers/Brutes is the ability to deal with damage spikes. Most of the time, not all, this is coming from Sm, Le sources which is what the resist toggle is meant to cover. The toxic is there just to deal with the flavor of the set. Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative and Psi would be weaker yes. But not critically so, in my experience. You would still have Reconstruction, Dull Pain, Fast Healing and Integration by level 8 if you wanted as a Tanker. That doesn't seem too crippling.

And in any event, I'm not sure Instant Healing is a better power. When it's with you, it's godly of course, but in a set with so clicks, it would be nice to just have some bit of sturdiness without having to click for it. I'm not sold on this debuff resistance that folks are asking for here which is why I stayed out of the thread.

Lastly, you're certainly correct that IH would be a poor choice for a Tier 3 for the reasons you stated. But Regen isn't really paced well for Tankers/Brutes so it might be necessary for a redesign for those ATs, similar but a bit more extensive than what happened to Electric Armor.

That is a concern yes. But Instant Healing is the power to sacrifice. Perhaps for Brutes/Tankers move IH/APD to Tier 3 and move QR to Tier 7.

I would add a second tier 7 power called Absorb Physical Damage. It would be a Scale 3 (22.5% for Scrappers) smashing, lethal, toxic resist toggle. It would be mutually exclusive with Instant Healing. Take one, you can't have the other, similar to how Night Widows cannot have both followup and build up.

Since the implementation of Dual Pistols it has been possible for the devs to allow people a choice whether to use KB or not. Basically all you have to do is create a power similar to Swap Ammo that creates a flag on your character. So long as that flag is active your KB powers would do KB. If you don't turn on that power, your KB powers do KD. The power would be a 0 cost, non-suppressable toggle.

The devs already verified that this would work. But they won't do it, because effectively that would kill KB in this game. Make it that easy, and few teams would put up with KB any longer.

They've tried doing -KB IOs and they couldn't get them to work right. But now that I think about it, I think there might be a way.

I would too. However, I think the devs' concern would be players who weren't aware they could turn them off and complaining that their endurance went bye bye. This might have been more of a concern in the pre-inherent Stamina days though.

EDIT: Nevermind.

Somebody has to be the grownup.

That's your problem. You have access to another power. If you choose not to take it, then that's no concern of mine. I'm not dodging anything. You want to build a human only that's your business. Take Dwarf and don't slot it, just slot Dwarf Flare. Then you can have the precious KB in Solar Flare that you said you don't want.

It's really too core to the problem with PBs. Peacebringers do not need more damage and given what you posted concerning Cosmic Balance are not likely to get it. Peacebringers need to have more synergy between their attacks. A PBAoE that is a signature power where it does not have KB, becomes nearly skippable in PBs. Despite the comments and needless insults to the contrary, this isn't a playstyle issue. This is an issue that goes to the effectiveness of the EAT. The whole point of these endless "buff Peacebringer" threads is to move them closer to their brothers the Warshades and make them more valuable and desired for teaming. That isn't happening by ignoring the KB issue. Yes, it's contentious. Yes, people have strong feelings about it. But this change could do a lot of good with very little harm. Versus other buff ideas which are harder to justify.

We've seen over and over that when you lower KB in AoE powers that the power goes from skippable to highly valued. So would it be with Peacebringers. I caution to say that that one change to Solar Flare would do more to make Peacebringers more acceptable than any realistic fix to Photon Seekers or other powers.

Oh sarcastic Bill, do you not know that Dwarf Flare takes those Armageddons (which are unique and so of course you can only have one set) just as well.

Then don't make them.

Because you know, it's not like there are very cheap KB sets which allow you to get your KB back without any sacrifice in Damage.

So Bill how many slots do you devote to Solar Flare now? What enhancement numbers does that give you? What bonuses?

I agree with all of this, but I think that folks have a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. I'm not saying that KB cannot be used skillfully. I'm saying that in any comparison between KB and KD in the power Solar Flare (a copy of Footstomp), KD is more effective at killing NPCs. Killing NPCs is the point of our battles. It is not in 'skillfully using KB'. It's killing NPCs. I don't begrudge Bill (either of them) their playstyle. I have a Claws Stalker who uses Shockwave all the time. But I likewise, don't go around claiming that Shockwave is the best Scrapper T9 because it isn't.

The reason I'm wading into this argument is that Peacebringers don't really need that much. They do decent damage now, great damage in teams. But they don't do that damage efficiently. I don't give a crap about what Photon Seekers does if they move Solar Flare to KD because that becomes then the signature power of Peacebringers like it is for Super Strength Tankers/Brutes. Memphis Bill would be upset, and I honestly think that's regrettable. But the power would be more useful, more used, more taken and it would integrate MUCH better into the Peacebringer's suite of attacks AND the game as it is played.

Let's look at some recent examples to illustrate this point. When Castle buffed Repulsion Bomb, he REMOVED the KB and made it KD when he added more damage. Result: Power moved from the "easily skip" to "core power" in most FF builds.

Let's look at the power Energy Torrent. For Blasters/Defenders/Corrupters it does KB. For everyone else it does KD in their epics. Result: People can and do use the epic pool Energy Torrent whenever they feel like it. Integrating it into their suite of AoEs. Energy Torrent as a primary/secondary IF taken, isn't used nearly as much.

I don't enjoy fighting with many people on these boards, but Memphis Bill is one of them. Without doubt. He basically has a perspective on the game which is so alien to me, that it's absolutely fascinating to read his posts. I think he's a great poster, reasonable, intelligent, respectful. But he says these stark-raving mad things. Mostly regarding Kheldians and SoA. We don't really disagree much outside of that. Go figure.

You offered a situation where YOU would have been better off with KD. That you don't agree, is regrettable, but doesn't change the situation.


If you truly believed 2+2=5, you wouldn't be lying, but you wouldn't be correct either. Same thing here. PBAoE KB is not better than PBAoE KD. The only situation where that could be true is one that doesn't exist in the game. Let's say you were in the Trapdoor map in the final room surrounded by NPCs. Solar Flare would knock some in the lava. That would be more useful than KD because it would harm the NPCs more than just KD would. Too bad that situation doesn't exist.

Sorry, you might find it useful. But you would find KD more useful. Them's the breaks.

I'd just do to you what most folks do to Infernia and Glacia.

I said PBAoE is always deleterious. Targeted AoE is just almost always deleterious.

Correct.

I like being ridiculous.

Three direct heals; Two regens; one rez. Classic MMORPG healer. Hell my clerics in EQ2 have less heals as a proportion of their powers. That's not to take away any of your other points, but the devs called Empathy the game's healing set, and more than once.

Not sure why the anti-healer forces still feel the need to argue the point. Buffer/debuffer sets are clearly superior to Empathy/Pain in most situations. It's not like the old days where people discriminated against those types of characters.

No opinion. There's never a situation where KD isn't better. You keep saying there is, but you can't construct a scenario where you're not better off with KD. You said it yourself. You're not a min-maxer. I am. I've actually tried to come up with a reason. I've gone in and tested SF versus Dwarf Flare and there just isn't a comparison.

At best KB isn't TOO hurtful against NPCs that have melee preferences, but otherwise it's not helpful. Sorry if that offends you, but it's true.

Six powers heal or regenerate health.

The only easy way to do this is to make Solar Flare KD. There are means to create a choice, but the devs (well at least Castle) was pretty against doing it because of the work involved.