Erratic

[ QUOTE ]
Prediction: Tar Patch and Freezing Rain get both duration and recharge nerfed rather than the devs admitting they made a mistake and fixing EF's balance with the other two in a positive manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prediction: I won't be around to see it.

[ QUOTE ]
I can only imagine how Concern, Erratic et. al. are feeling right now, after having been called liars by the devs on the EF issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

How I feel is best left to imagination, or more appropriately nightmares.

[ QUOTE ]
Stacking Tar patch is relatively a myth outside of AV encounters/Herding...

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored]. I have a Dark Defender and it stacks very well.

[ QUOTE ]
Dev Note:
This power has always been very strong and easy to use, despite its high endurance cost. With the overall decrease in the power of defensive buffs, this power had to be weakened or Radiation would be too strong compared to other Defender primaries and Controller secondaries.

[/ QUOTE ]

You can stack both Tar Patch and Freezing Rain as they summon their affect, but you can't stack Enervatin gField. Moreover the effects of Tar Patch and Freezing Rain last their full duration, Enervating Field at any point might end due to anchor death.

What is most disgusting about this is the continuous change of statements before finally owning up to what was said to be going on in the first place--Enervating Field was being nerfed. And because the developers have danced for so long it is utterly impossible at this point to make an argument against the change because the change has gone live.

This is not a good example of being up front and forward with the playing community. The neft was stealthed in, and only after significant complaint did we get the first evasive claim that nothing had been changed, and then we were told all powers of its type were changed when in fact the final story--the one we knew all along--was that Enervating Field was changed.

Tar Patch did 30% BEFORE I5. So it has not been reduced despite the openning commeng in this thread.

How can I put this nicely. . .


. . .the developers are wrong again.

This does not jibe with reports that Tar Patch and Freezing Rain have seen no change.

But to be sure I'll bring on my Dark Defender and check to how much Tar Patch is debuffing for when I get home.

I'm also troubled how when the matter was mentioned during I5 being on Test it was said that no changes had been made.

Explanation?

Dear Developers,

Please ignore the people expressing concerns that the debuff in sonics might be too powerful.

It seem as if such people really haven't put any thought into the fact that on Live servers they (a) won't be playing in an environment where they are grouped with 8 other people also using the same debuff, (b) that when you look at it increasing the damage on an attack that deal 100 damage base to 110 or 105 (for those suggesting a 10% or 5% buff instead) is meaningless, (c) that the set does not have a snipe, or (d) that the set does not have the traditional 2 forms of AE damage. (One wonders how much damage Fire does with its burn effect by comparison. . .and has anyone ever called it overpowered?)

I've tried it both as a Blaster and a Defender on Test and frankly its fast and fun, and the "wow" value of overpowering level 1 to level 4 targets comes down quickly as you transition out of the levels where everyone and their grandma is able to take on multiple oranges and get away with it.

Irradical - Justice Server

PI Patrolling

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No it seems impressive because on top of causing all of that damage, I can also keep my entire team healed, buffed, unmezzed, and full on endurance. To me, that's well worth the difference in damage. If anything blasters have the short end of the stick because all that they have is damage.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're using your ultimate blast, you aren't doing all that. You're spending all your endurance, getting totally detoggled, and taking on several seconds of no or much-reduced end recovery on an attack that on its unbuffed own is lucky it's able to knock off +1 minions.

[/ QUOTE ]

Natural endurance rates are suppressed, powers adding to it aren't. I may suffer a detoggling when I pull out Thunderous Blast, but I merely have to hit Conserve Power and I can pretty quickly continue as if nothing had occurred while gaining endurance for being unable to burn it quickly enough.

True, that is in the post-40 world, but then again so is much of the existence of the level 38 powers.

[ QUOTE ]
It takes me 4 seconds to animate Thunderous Blast. In that time a Fire Blaster can FireBall/FireBreath. I'll get ~37 brawls (55.556 * 0.666 = Blaster Damage) if all three ticks hit, and he'll get 29.5 brawls. That's 80% of my damage and he can do it every 10 seconds. If I get any less than 3 ticks we're doing the same damage.


[/ QUOTE ]

If you're using Thunderous Blast, shouldn't the proper comparison be to an Electrical Blaster?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He wasn't doing anything other than buffing and healing. If that's not being a buffbot... what is?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's called being an Empath (or FF Defender). If you don't like the way they work, avoid grouping with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing about either prevents them from doing more is the point.

[ QUOTE ]
I wonder why he didn't stack many enhancements and why he's not using 50s instead of 45++s.

[/ QUOTE ]

Its a snapshot of what I had when I hit 50. With the 35 million influence I have lying about on the character, I guess I could go buy everything up to 50++, but there is little reason to do so.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Refer to sig, please note Grav Controller listed. I regularly use Crushing Field. Of course I have Radiation Infection to work with to help keep from getting hit. Thing here is that Tenebrous Tentacles both immobilizes and lowers the liklihood of being hit.

[/ QUOTE ]
How much? Did he slot it to enhance the debuff? In the initial statement, I said that if he was throwing out AoE roots and made no other attempts to forestall death by incoming aggro, he'd faceplant. That's what it sounded like was happening to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is no way to know what he tried as he didn't indicate anything other than he tried to use his blasts and gave up. It seems as if he is relatively low level and predisposed towards seeing blasts as useless, so my gut feeling is he (a) didn't know about the debuffing qualities of the Dark set, (b) didn't do anything to find out, and (c) is entrenched in the view he has rather than listen to those of us who have some experience and understanding of using the secondary natures of blasts.

My Kinetics Defender has no special defenses. He's as naked as a Blaster when it comes to avoiding being hit. I can very much tell the difference beween how often I get hit when being attacked by something that I've recently used Tenebrous Tentacles and Night Fall on. And as noted, I'm using just the base values of that secondary effect, it can be slotted to improve it.

Obviously if you attack something that isn't aggro'd heavily on someone else its going to try to kill you. So the first rule of blasting is not to blast something you're not prepared to deal with. But with the ability to heal himself and debuff mob's Accuracy, not blasting is a choice, not a logical consequence.

Choosing not to blast is a perfectly valid decision. But what he presented as reasons weren't.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I think you're making a serious mistake through your total neglect of your secondary. Since you're /dark, you can provide a degree of crowd control as well as damage mitigation via your secondary - in addition to doing some damage.


[/ QUOTE ]

tried that actually back when i first started the char. died alot and took my team with me most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes absolutely no sense. Unless you were doing just stupid things with the powers it is hard to imagine (a) doing sufficient damage to get aggro from someone who already has it and (b) taking the entire team with you.

[/ QUOTE ]
If you use an AoE immobilize by itself and then don't make any attempts to stop them from cacking you at range, it's really easy to get faceplanted. AoE roots draw aggro on you without stopping ranged attacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Except that Tenebrous Tentacles debuffs Accuracy--the mobs have a harder time hitting you. TT and Nightfall combined really lower the odds of you being hit (I know, I have them both on my Kinetics Defender). And they do that at base value. If you slot them up for Accuracy Debuff they work even better.

[ QUOTE ]
Gravity controllers face this conundrum with Crushing Field; if they don't back it up with a GDF, then they'll take big aggro from the trapped mobs, but if they do use a GDF, should they have used Crushing Field in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]

Refer to sig, please note Grav Controller listed. I regularly use Crushing Field. Of course I have Radiation Infection to work with to help keep from getting hit. Thing here is that Tenebrous Tentacles both immobilizes and lowers the liklihood of being hit.

[ QUOTE ]
However, even within Dark Blast there's a solution to the problem. If you use the AoE disorient of Dark Pit in conjunction with the AoE root of Tenebrous Tentacles, it should go a long way towards not dying. A dark/dark has even more options.

[/ QUOTE ]

True. Its another power that I make great use of. But of course "pure" types just shun the blast powers without ever engaging their brains to figure out that the blasts powers can do more than deliver damage.

[ QUOTE ]
On top of that, I'm not sure why the */dark defender dying would necessarily be followed by a team wipe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apparently he's the only healing on his team and everyone else is amazingly fragile.

[ QUOTE ]
i said not enuff slots for me to go around. also you do relise there is a place to type a message in the team tool now? about 3 full lines. mine lists that i am a pure emp healer with maxed RA's adren boost and leader pools.

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason you're getting invites is the word 'Empathy'. That's it. 'Pure' means nothing to anyone out there looking.

We'll see however how well your invite ratio goes as you level up.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That makes absolutely no sense. Unless you were doing just stupid things with the powers it is hard to imagine (a) doing sufficient damage to get aggro from someone who already has it and (b) taking the entire team with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) it does not take much to kill a defender b) if your the only healer in a group and you die its not abnormal for the rest of the team to die. even more so at the lower lvls which is where i played with the combat power. i do not remember when but i switched to pure healer/buffer before 14.

[/ QUOTE ]

It takes the same amount it takes to kill a Blasters or Controllers and only slightly less than what it takes to kill a Scrapper if you're talking hit points.

As to everyone dying because you're the only "healer" in the group, you should probably try to join more robust groups. Controllers help immensely and it never hurts to have other Defenders about. However, your statement was predicated on being the only Defender, it stated that when you attacked you often died and everyone along with you died. The implication is that your attacks cause a group wipe regardless of the composition of the groups you are on. That makes as little sense as I indicated. And since general groups will tend to have more than one person on them that have the ability to heal, your scenario remains questionable compared to the norm.

And that is buying into the entire business of you getting yourself killed because you attacked. That isn't all that plausible with appropriately utilized attacks. Sure, if you shoot the +4 mob that nobody else is dealing with you stand to put yourself in a way to get beaten down. But AE debuffing the entire group that the Tanker is holding with Tenebrous Tentacles, which also immobilizes the mobs, shouldn't cause you a moment's heartache.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in which case you're not having troubles finding groups, you're waiting on a small crowd of people you know to invite you to accept.

[/ QUOTE ]

again wrong. i do have several i play with. but i get invites from lots of different people. you really do seem to have issues with making assumptions.

[/ QUOTE ]

You seem to be clueless about the nature of the workings of the game and its community. Again, Empathy is the most popularly requested set. You seem to have some bizare notion that people know ahead of time how you are slotted and if you do or don't use your secondary powers. They don't and they can't. Few would even recognize the terminology 'Pure' as it is almost exclusively used on the forums.

[ QUOTE ]
and many who i have only teamed once will seek me out for a group but normally i am already in one. i also get lots of invites while in a group to join another. but unless i am in a bad one i tend to stay with a group till it breaks or i log.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's nice. You know on my Rad/Electrical Defender (slots in my signature--be prepared to faint) I could log on and get invites before I could do so much as go and sell enhancements from people I had previously played with. Seems that all my use of my secondary powers didn't put people off at all. Kinda screws your contention.

[ QUOTE ]
as for the LFG tool you have logged in since I5 right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and I put my powersets in there. I also notice that only a few people do that. The gain for you is the word 'Empathy' (actually its a gain for all the rest of us who don't have to put up with 'R U Healer' when what they mean is "Are you Empathy".

Now, anyone want to take odds on how long we have to wait for Mr. Pure here to come whining back to the boards like so many other "Pure" types before him complaining that nobody wants him in a group as he hits the late 30s and early 40s?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, I think you're making a serious mistake through your total neglect of your secondary. Since you're /dark, you can provide a degree of crowd control as well as damage mitigation via your secondary - in addition to doing some damage.


[/ QUOTE ]

tried that actually back when i first started the char. died alot and took my team with me most of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes absolutely no sense. Unless you were doing just stupid things with the powers it is hard to imagine (a) doing sufficient damage to get aggro from someone who already has it and (b) taking the entire team with you.

[ QUOTE ]
also was alot harder finding groups. when i switched over to pure heals/buffs i not only had no issues finding teams i shot up in lvls real quick.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone is inviting your through LFG they dont' know what powers you have. They can't know until they invite you, unless you're dealing with only people who've previously played with you, in which case you're not having troubles finding groups, you're waiting on a small crowd of people you know to invite you to accept.

[ QUOTE ]
thats one of the reasons i say alot of the "Can't Find a group" is play style.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, until you're in a group with a person you don't know what powers he has, nor what his playstyle is like. Your position is nonsensical.

[ QUOTE ]
actually as i have mentioned i have all 4 leader powers and 3 of them are 6 slotted so thats 15 less right there not counting the 3 free ones. add travel powers which i only have flight and air sup. flights 6 slotted since i do not use my combat powers any way . plus stamina(6 slotted) which of course requires 2 extra nearly useless powers to get that brings me down 5 more slots right there so thats only 2 left from the 22 your talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then that completely invalidates your claim that there aren't enough slots to go around in terms of slotting secondary powers. You decided to go on a spree in the pool powers, but others might not.

[ QUOTE ]
i am quite surprised that most people seem to think a defender without slotted attacks is gimped and i think thats a major part of the issue. since by slotting attack powers you are splitting your slots and drawing away from a defenders main job which ironicly is to defend.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the end you have 67 slots to play with. Even if you 6-slotted every power in your primary that leaves 22 slots lying about. That's ample for slotting your secondary powers, and fact of the matter is you're highly unlikely to 6-slot or even take every power in your primary.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, not being able to use as many inspirations would hurt defenders plenty as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would? How? Where?

[/ QUOTE ]

Breakfrees. Nuff said

[/ QUOTE ]

Breakfrees leave you immune for a period don't they? Have you ever had to pop multiple of them in a few seconds?

[ QUOTE ]
Reds are the only way for some defenders to hit damage caps.

[/ QUOTE ]

You mean other than being buffed by others?

[ QUOTE ]
For people with little or no defense, 4 good lucks could make the difference between faceplanting and not.

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is that dangerous, arguably you shouldn't be fighting it alone.

[ QUOTE ]
For defenders who need to have their primary powers hit, loading up yellows can make the difference between life and death vs higher level enemies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, perhaps you shouldn't be able to use yellows to hit +8 mobs.

[ QUOTE ]
Anything you do to limit inspirations will boomerang back on defenders in several ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

In no ways that don't affect others and in few if any ways that deter the ability to function in the realm where most people function--not fighting absurdly high level mobs.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course, not being able to use as many inspirations would hurt defenders plenty as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would? How? Where?

[ QUOTE ]
I mentioned that earlier in this thread as well.

Ignored again.

[/ QUOTE ]

27 pages and more like I missed it.

Over in the Tanker section of the forums someone noted that inspirations also play a part in the desirability of Defenders.

If you can pop 3 or 4 Luck inspirations and be relatively safe from being hit, do you need a Defender to buff your Accuracy?

The idea of restricting how many inspirations can be used (of a type or total) is being bounced around.

[ QUOTE ]
If no defenders use the arena, and there is no data being pulled how do people expect it to ever work out?

[/ QUOTE ]

I gave them plenty of time during Test. They put it live in a state that I didn't find usable. So I don't use it.

Well balance in the Arena is screwed heavily against Defenders, but I can solve that one by just not going to the Arena (I don't and I won't).

Perma-suppressions though. . .well, I've already explained to Statesman how toggles have become nothing but a substandard mechanism and perma-supression is but another strike against them.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just a quick thought:

Scrapper defense =~ 80% Tanker Def.
Tanker def. =~ 80% Scrapper offense
Controller secondary =~ 80% Defender (ignoring the fact that in many instances is really 100%)

Defender damage = 66% blaster damage

Why do defenders get so much less benefit from thier secondary than all the other ATs?

[/ QUOTE ]

Enervating field, freezing rain, and now tar patch.

Raising the defender secondaries would lead to offenders outdamaging blasters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Increasingly I'm seeing that as sham reasoning. Its not as if Fire Controllers, Fire Tankers, and Spines Scrappers don't exist and can't mow things down far faster and at higher rates of damage than a Blaster. One wonders why it was so critical to keep Defenders down, especially when if you factor in setup for the Defender (have to use Tar Patch, Enervating Field, or Freezing Rain) and the limitations involved (only having Aim at best) it is not clear how much of a lead if any those Defenders would have.