Electric-Knight

See, every time people say the system isn't a part of the expansion, they keep the conversation within defense against someone vying for something to do with the Freedom business model.
That is not necessary.
And what about the fact that it is connected through purchase as well?

I just see it as a matter of semantics. To me, in the case of an mmorpg expansion, your "prerequisite" = part of the expansion.
What is the difference?

I'm not addressing the "in the real world" comment. I'm keeping it respectful and reasonable.

In all sincerity, why do you make that distinction, with this content that was only accessible through the purchase of that expansion, as opposed to it just simply being a part of it?

This isn't a false premise nor is it a satellite/cable service...
It is epic endgame content, that centered around the locations and main villains of Going Rogue, that you're claiming was not a part of the Going Rogue expansion even though that you had to purchase that particular Going Rogue expansion in order to participate in it.

Oh, yeah. I think they have to keep the Incarnate System within VIP in the business model they're going with, Makes perfect sense and would be crazy not to.
And I am honestly not just being the devil's advocate in what I was bringing up.
I just don't like seeing weird twistings of things, whether they come from marketing-talk, misconceptions or whatever... Honestly, I especially don't like truth to be twisted in order to defend a valid point.
The whole slant just sounds like something George Carlin would pick on with great humor.
This makes no real sense:
"The epic endgame content, that centered around the locations and main villains of Going Rogue, was not a part of the Going Rogue expansion that you had to purchase in order to participate in."

It was a part of it, heeehee!

Honestly though, perhaps I shouldn't have bothered to continue it in this thread (as the OP and main topic is far from reasonable). I talked about it elsewhere on these forums and it was a nice reasonable conversation.

Since so many were talking about this aspect here, I thought I'd get a good discussion about it.

I just find it odd! I like to point out oddities and play with them.

It was pushed back/delayed. Not removed.



Not, it means exactly what it means.

There is zero ambiguity. As a customer, one had to buy it in order to take part in it. It is simple. No further explanations need to be given and I'm not sure why people feel the need to divide them.
They were combined. Only words, after the fact, attempt to divide them.

No, after it went live.
It was a part of it.
I know. I was there. You had to pay for it in order to take part in that system.

Hehe... don't get me wrong... It means nothing. It's just that every time someone mentions that the system was a part of Going Rogue, someone uses analogies to express something that makes no sense in the true context of what they're discussing.

The Striped Cat Tail was part of the Animal Booster pack.

We're talking in the past tense though...
The Incarnate System was a part of Going Rogue.

Yet, this team (as well as past teams) have moderated this community thusly... And it is widely regarded as one of the best mmorpg forum communities in the realm of ever.

While I understand where you're coming from, I do not subscribe to those standards of adhering to the extremist interpretation of the letter of rules.

Also... What I was referring to (and what Zwill better referred to) is not a matter of looking the other way for some people over others... (fact is, I think newcomers/strangers will get away with more than regular pains-in-the-whatsits around here... simply because people lose patience with them)...
It is a matter of stating bold rules so that they may act upon them if they see fit. Meanwhile... if there is no harm being committed, they do not feel the need to overreact.

Somewhat related to the current rule of "No talking about any other video games"... vs. "no dedicated discussions about other video games".

If I mention really enjoying online backgammon... Zwill doesn't feel the need to thwap me (not for that, at least)... But if I start a thread, that runs a league, that has several tournaments of us playing online backgammon against each other... Zwill and the team will make their judgment call and can nuke it.

It's simple.

If you want military rules and kindergarten treatment... This may not be the forum for you!

Haha!
What do you honestly think that statement means?

You had to purchase Going Rogue in order to take part in the Incarnate Content.
There is zero ambiguity there.

This so very much spoke to how I felt when considering a response...
My only point of disagreement is that (in my personal estimate) the pack is not marginally worth the price.



Anyway!!
Not every move is going to be in agreement with me!
So, I move on! and continue to enjoy what I do.
Although... some additions to this pack would be great.


Oh, one other thing... I was a bit worried about this possibility. This once a week thing (or just greater quantity of purchasable content) really needs to keep to the quality over quantity mantra (and I don't mean within a pack!).

We'll see though.
It's early yet and the impact of the new business model may bring on an enormous amount of resources and great content (both free and purchasable).
Time will tell!

Absolutely. In fact, I responded to someone (I think it was you) in this thread, mentioning that very same theory.

And, yeah, nothing wrong with that approach.

However... as costumers... tell me, what is the difference of what you said and the Incarnate System being a part of Going Rogue?
If I had to purchase Going Rogue in order to access the Incarnate System... How is it not a part of it?
From our perspective, how is it not one and the same?

And, maybe this would actually help you understand why I asked for no analogies...
(Again, I have zero issue with what is free, what is not, what is VIP-Only and so on... I am not arguing ANY of that. I completely disagree with the O.P.)

In this particular case, we are talking about a very peculiar thing: an mmorpg expansion. More specifically: Going Rogue and subsystems that require that paid-for expansion.

Some people insist that they are not one and the same. Yet, you needed to pay for the expansion to access the content.

A prerequisite, in this case, is the connection... it ties them together.
You did not need to buy the AE box in order to use the AE.
You did not need to buy GR in order to access Ultra Mode options.
You did need to buy GR in order to access Incarnate Content.
They are connected.
What is the connection if the subsystem is not a part of the expansion?
What is the meaning of "prerequisite" in this case?

SG bases were a part of CoV.
CoV wasn't just a prerequisite...

Was GR just a prerequisite to getting the new costume pieces?

The fact that the Incarnate System was also 100% based around the Going Rogue's Praetoria just makes it second cousins, once removed... as opposed to... PART OF IT?

I am bringing this up for discussion not because there is some bone to pick with how things were divided up for Freedom or how things were handled by the development team... I have no such complaints!
I only bring it up because I see a bunch of forum-users repeating this mantra as though it means something... But I don't think that it does. I think it sounds ridiculous (in a funny way). So, I'm addressing it. I'm completely willing to have a reasonable conversation about it (and have with some people elsewhere).
So far... I just see it as a silly bit of semantics... When, really... it is what it is. The endgame content came later, but they gated it behind the purchase of Going Rogue (until their new business model came out).
It's no big deal.
But... until now... the Incarnate Content was directly tied to Going Rogue (which was tied to having a subscription, of course).

Nothing wrong with that!

While this is all (more by means of me replying to it here) bordering on offtopicville, I really have to agree with what you've said and comment that I have observed this as well and it leaves me somewhat concerned for what the in-house thinking is regarding this false facade of presentation.
CoH's atypical approach to these game mechanics is one of its greatest strengths.
I honestly just hope that it is not 1) taken too far to the point that it does indeed create problems with new players' expectations and 2) taken farther into the development of this game to produce changes along those lines.

Anyway... I was glad to see your comments on this subject, because parts of my brain have been quietly having this very conversation for a while now.

I know what the words mean. However, in this instance, it being a paid-for expansion, they are basically one and the same.

I think the only distinction is that the initial expansion purchase was not focused on the Incarnate content (and did not include it right away), yet it is still connected to it down the road.
Since I don't see an mmorpg expansion as a one-time purchase/event (I see it as a continuous experience of content that will umbrella many things as time goes by), citing a connection, but not being a part of it seems somewhat odd to me.


Classic... So, you're just responding as though I am someone who is trying to argue for Incarnate content to be included in Premium play or something?
I don't see any qq-ing from me... your little EDIT there, however...


And again... how is that different from Incarnate content being a part of GR?
You needed to buy GR in order to take part in it. And you needed a subscription. What is so difficult about the Incarnate content being attached to GR?
Admitting it does not give any bit of credence to the people asking for Incarnate Content to be opened up for Premiums.
It's okay.
Really.

Apparently, Freedom has broken our Arcanaville.

Without any interest in being confrontational nor argumentative, I am honestly curious as to what you think that this means.
Without using any analogies, what does it mean to you (anyone who wishes) that the Going Rogue expansion is a "prerequisite" but is not a "part of" the Incarnate System?

Is this only in response to people trying to make a case that the Incarnate System should be included in the new business model version of GR?
Or is this something that means something to you outside of that argument?

(As I have said before... While I believe the Incarnate System was a part of Going Rogue, I do not believe they should have included it in the Premium package)

I'm honestly just curious what this (what seems to be an odd notion to me) really means to the people that express it.