DoomProphet

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Concern = small tweak.

Don't worry Regen Scrappers!

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Truth be told Statesman, there is ZERO problems with Regen Scrappers. We cannot take on the mobs an invuln can and we do die from large mobs.

Instant Healing + Integration + Resiliance = Great Scrapper and will die if he takes on the wrong stuff

Instant Healing + Integration + Resiliance + Tough = nearly unkilllable.

It is when you add a 6 socketed tough that makes us damn near indestructible.

I slaved through 800 hours to build an Ice/Empath Controller to 50th.

It has taken me 1/3 that time to build a Spine/Regen Scrapper to 49. I finally have an AT I can be proud of and dies 1/30th the time of my Controller.

Please do not pull out the nerf bat and hit Regen Scrappers.

Truth be told I am already bored having 2 level 50 characters (same content all over again). I am only waiting for a Epic AT. If I get the Nerf Bat I will be playing the game that was just released yesterday (11/10/2004) [not mentioning any names]. CoH is far superior to that other Rat/Deer bashing game but without having an AT I can be proud of there is nothing left for me.

Sorry, just telling the truth.

In addition, my 2 cents, I would not nerf the Blasters 32 power. They have no survivability (thus I do NOT play a Blaster) and that power is the only thing that keeps them playing the game. Without that they have nothing to make them proud of their AT and they will quit. Too many new choices for games out there so I would tread carefully now more so than before.

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Don't rule out that Short Circuit stops (supposedly) end regen. So, if you can get them to zero, (AND keep them from running away) then you can KEEP them at zero. They cannot regen from powers such as Stamina and such. (Unless they choose to let these powers and inspirations override the ability of SC to stop regen)

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Best way to thinkj about short circuit is like a toglge power that takes away exactly normal end regen, at the same time. They most certainly do keep regenerating from other powers, but since it disables the regular end regain..well..

TO clarify- Stamina recovers end at about 75 % of normal end rate, when 6 slotted. So end recovery rate is 175%...or, after, SC, 75%. This has a noticable impact- with only 75% recovery and full drain, a large number of attacks can not be used. That does not mean total lockdown but a bit of a dent.

FOr, of course, 3 seconds on even cons. Which is one hell of a sticking point. Not very good, because it's the only power that even can do this, it scales upward horribly....

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>> "TO clarify- Stamina recovers end at about 75 % of normal end rate, when 6 slotted. So end recovery rate is 175%...or, after, SC, 75%. This has a noticable impact- with only 75% recovery and full drain, a large number of attacks can not be used. That does not mean total lockdown but a bit of a dent."

Oh so wrong. Where did you get your information? I did a lot of tests on the Training server with Stamina and different socketing combinations.

Full Endurance Recovery times without any toggles powers on
Without Stamina: Empty to full 60 seconds.
With Stamina 4 sockets: Empty to full 43 seconds
With Stamina 6 sockets: Empty to full 41 seconds

(60 - 41) / 60 = 32%

Sorry. 32% is no where near your 75%.

On my Regen Scrapper I have Quick Recovery 6 socketed and Stamina 4 socketed. I may have nearly a 75% (or better) endurance recovery but stamina alone does not come close to 75%. More like 35%.

In PvP I would love to see a comparible level Electric Blaster take down a Regen Scrapper of that combo. Won't happen. The endurance drain secondary effects (or Powersink) will not be enough.

I totally disagree with you Statesman that an Electrical Blasters secondary effect of endurance drain is useful. It is not. Having played through so many levels I have never seen that effect make any difference. Others may like it but I have never seen it useful.

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States, I hate to be rude, but if you seriously think that an electric blaster's drain can be helpful againest an AV, you obviously have never played one.


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Let's not put words in my mouth here...a SINGLE electric blaster DOES drain endurance from an AV. BUT definitely not enough to make an impact. All secondary effects against AV's are resisted...it takes several electric blasters to make an appreciable dent in an AV (just like it takes many heroes to bring one down).

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"AV (just like it takes many heroes to bring one down)"

Statesman, this is not exactly true. Ever tried a high level Regen Scrapper versus an AV? I can solo 25-50% of your ArchVillains. Originally I thought this was a poor design (and I was overpowered) but in reality (comic books) many heroes were able to solo ArchVillains.

Statesman, I am approaching my second level 50 character. I know I play this game more than you as I seem to remember your character was somewhere around level 30. I can tell you from experience that the Electric Blaster's secondary effects stink. The endurance drain will be great PvP but it stink otherwise. For my Scrapper you cannot kill him unless you zap his endurance. Within seconds of when his Endurance is gone he dies.

Endurance drain will have a better place in PvP but I guarentee that not all Electric Blasters will like PvP.

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Yes, AOE damage is an issue. We're still looking at ways to solve this. So no changes are imminent.

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I disagree Statesman. Now that you finally "fixed" Smoke Grenade the blasters are all grouping and teaming up. The problem was not that Blasters do too much damage (they do a lot) it was that they did a lot of damage and had Smoke Grenade so they did not need anyone. Defenders, Tankers, and some Controllers were trying to find groups while the Blasters were single handedly destroying an entire zone and the Scrappers were just being Scrappers and soloing what they could.

However Statesman you created a side effect. The people wanting a total killing maching made Fire/AR + Device Blasters but they did not make it to 45+ before Feature Release #2. Now those same characters are trying to solo. Those same Blasters run in stealthed (SuperSpeed + Stealth), drop a TripMine, then speed away to another group. Of course this TripMine did not even come close to killing all of them so you have weakened upset mobs running around that actual grouped characters need to clean up.

Why oh why did they not get a clue before the upcoming changes to Smoke Grenade and just make a Scrapper. Yes, Scrappers are a little boring (just stand there and click click click) but that is what they are built for but they can atleast solo when they get Invulnerability or Instant healing.

I believe if you Nerf AoE damage right now the whole high level game will get unbalanced because there is not enough high level support characters. There is still an influx of high level blasters. The Blasters are now grouping (except the poor souls I listed above) and the AoE damage will let the Blasters help take out mobs fast. If you reduce the damage of those blasters they will start to take a lot more damage. If you Nerf AoE damage now and their is not more high level support characters (Tankers/Controllers/Defenders) you will kill off a lot of parties.

Tankers and Controllers rule at support. With Controllers secondary pool being the Defenders primaries you completely devalued Defenders completely. A Controller that can Hold and Heal/ForceField has made the Defender Class totally obeolete. You need to bring the Defenders back into the game a little more before you up and nerf AoE damage. I might accept a nerf to AoE damage if you redesign Defenders (or Controllers Secondary lines) and give a couple of months so there are more high level support characters before the AoE nerf.

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Couple that with the enormous penalty for grouping beyond the 4rth person and you just don't see large teams anymore.

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Penalty for more than 4 people? Certainly not XP wise; players get an XP bonus for having larger and larger groups. What are you referring to?

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Statesman, they are telling the truth. I run Hero Logger that tracks my exp rate as I like to optimize my leveling. The most optimal exp rates are always soloing or a 4 person balanced team.

To give you average numbers I was able to see. Lets say I can get 100,000 exp/hour soloing. With a 2 person team where both members independently fight different groups I can get about 120k/hour because the kill rate smooths out. If I have a group of 4 people that independently go out and kill my exp rate will drop from 100k/hour to 90k/hour.

The numbers I have seen in an 4 person group that fights together is about 70k but less risk.

If I have a full 8 people in the group I am lucky if I can see 50k/hour.

They are correct Statesman. Hero Logger gave me hard fast numbers showing me that large groups are not optimal and drags exp to a crawl. I have over 1000 hours in playing this game and using Hero Logger to optimize risk/rewards verus a theoretical exp curve that Cryptic thinks scales well but in truth it really doesn't.

Risk/reward balances best at a 4 person team.

Kool!!!! I have a lvl 40 and 50. I am soooo ready for this.