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It makes no sense for a L50 controller to be shot in the back by an L14 blaster with a snipe and a followup, and die. With scaled damage, this is a likely situation.
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First of all by the sounds of it the PvP will be in special zones, these zones will be ranked much like existing zones. So the fact is that you won't find a level 14 running around a level 50 zones which has enemies that can pick them off with ease. They will probably stick to their own zones to avoid being killed by mobs. This is naturally only occour in crossover zones between the CoH part of the game and the CoV but you can bet there will be mobs there. Assuming they survive that gaunlet they might get into the other PvP zone where no mobs are.
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So you're saying that an L50 will go out of his way to grief an L14 (and therefore we need to scale damage), but an L14 won't go out of his way to grief an L50 (therefore the scaled damage doesn't matter)? That appears to be what you're saying. My point still stands: If damage is scaled to even-con, level pretty much goes out the window. An L12+ <damage class> is a deadly threat to any level Controller or Defender, bar nothing except pre-prepared buffs. Maybe L12 is a little low, but say L32. I don't understand why an L32 should be a major threat to an L50.
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It doesn't make sense in terms of gameplay, and it doesn't make sense in terms of comic books, and it won't be fun.
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From a gameplay point of view it makes great sense, encounters with other players need to be a challenge just like the monsters in the game which now con purple to all players.
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This is wrong. Encounters with other players of lower level does not need to be a challenge, exactly as encounters with other mobs of low levels is not a challenge. It works fine in PvE, I don't understand why it would be necessary in PvP.
The monster example is perfectly fitting. An L32 Purple Monster should not be approachable by a single ~L1-28 hero. An L1 hero attacking an L32 monster does L1 damage, not L32 damage. An L50 attacking an L32 monster does L50 damage. The way purple monsters work in CoH now has nothing to do with damage scaling in the way you seem to be proposing.
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Secondly in the case of comics it does work, in the books the only thing that seperate the Hulk from Spiderman is that he Hulk is nearly indestructable and Spiderman doesn't have as the same degree of superstrength. However you'd never see the Spiderman die within moments against the Hulk because his super reflexes would keep up with it. This 'even ground' methodolgy works even for the comic books.
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You're talking about L50 heroes versus L50 heroes here. Top shelf, super heroes. Not L1 new trainee heroes or villains.
Spiderman (L50) vs. The Hulk (L50). Even battle.
Superman (L50) vs. The Hulk (L50). Even battle.
The Hulk (L50) vs. Robin (maybe L20). Robin gets pasted.
The Joker (L50) vs. Robin (maybe L20). Robin gets pasted (with an axe or a hammer no less).
The Joker (L50) vs. The Penguin (L50). Even battle.
The Hulk (L50) vs. The Joker (L50). Even battle.
Robin (L20) vs. Jubilee (or whoever) (L15). Even battle, though I'd hope to see Jubilee pasted.
Jubilee (L15) vs. Magneto (L50). Magneto gets yellow and red wallpaper for his evil lair.
Magneto (L50) vs. The Hulk (L50). Relatively even fight.
And so forth. There is no even ground in the comics. Top shelf (paralleled here as L50) heroes or villains will DESTROY lesser heroes/villains/sidekicks.
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Lastly. Being placed into an impossible situation is never fun... being forced into one by another player is worse because you cannot escape it. One way or another you're going to have ambushes and deaths as a result. I know you like the security of being level 50 and what you consider 'safe' however consider what its like for lower level characters being actively hunted by level 50s with no way to defend themselves.
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This doesn't really hold water to me, either. Either it's L50s hunting L1s, or it's everyone hunting everyone. There will be situations in which I don't want to be hunted. In those situations, there must be a solution. The solution will be similar with or without scaled damage... all scaled damage does is turn level into a largely irrelevant detail.
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Similarly, an INV tanker by L32, if he is auto-scaled to his enemy, will be effectively unkillable one on one by anyone.
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Every AT and powerset currently has something to counter it. Any tanker could be totally owned by a controller, all it takes is one successful hold and its all over. Even with an 'even ground' system in place. The same can be said for any scrapper and tanker. Even some blasters have ways to drop toggles with a hold or sleep. There is no such thing as someone being undefeatable by anyone just because you made everyone equal in damage ect...
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Yes, there is. If I am an INV tanker, and I have Unyielding on, a single hold from a single controller will not land. Maybe, if they spam all their holds, they might have a slight chance... I don't know the numbers. Say UY has a base of -10 and US has an additional -10. That's a -20 resist. A single controller can stack maybe, what an 8 hold? Stacking 8 hold and 4 sleep and 3 diso doesn't add up to anything... you have to break 20 in ONE of those numbers.
So what does this mean? With scaled damage, an L32 Inv tanker is solo UNKILLABLE by ANYONE in the game. If you can't land a hold, the tanker is quite literally unstoppable. It doesn't matter if it's an L50 super buffed ultra mega Scrapper or an L50 controller... you're just stuck (with scaled damage).
Take it as teams... I, at my best (even con unresisting minions), maybe 700 DPS at L45. Could be more, but let's just use that as an imaginary baseline. At L32, I probably did a quarter less damage if damage is relatively linear. So 8 L45 Lethal scrappers against an L32 capped inv tank will do... wait for it... ~420 DPS (700 * 8 * .75 * .1).
These are largely useless numbers, but the point is that 8 L45 scrappers attacking at once against an L32 anything should be instant death. Not death in 5 or 10 seconds of concentrated attack. This is what scaling damage does, as far as I can tell.
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I don't want to be afraid to stomp around AP or PP with my L45 Scrapper, and I won't want to be afraid of L1-40 villains in CoV, either. It just doesn't make sense to me.
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You'd have no reason to stomp around Atlas Park unless you were ganking lower level players or hanging around the trainer to socialize. Thankfully AP will never be a PvP zone from what they have said. You're speaking from a highbies point of view. Why is it unfair for you to be worried about being in a low level zone while its apparently fair for lowbies to feel hunted and powerless to protect themselves in the lowbie zones?
Isn't it fair to everyone to give all heroes the same risks and rewards?
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In the scope of this game, a) there is no such thing as ganking and b) it is entirely appropriate and justified for an L50 hero to destroy an L1 villain on sight. I'm not going to spend my time hunting L1 mobs, but when a mission sends me to AP, and I see a purse snatching, what do you think I do? I absolutely nuke the Hellion and send him packing to the grave.
I might pass up 100000 L5 mobs because I'm on the trail of an L45 AV, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't be fighting the L5s if I have the time or inclination. I don't go to AP of my own volition. But if I have to go talk to Azuria, or the City Rep, or whoever (all of which I have done in L40-45 at least two or three times), it makes sense that I would fight crime there.
Similarly, the lowbie VILLAINS SHOULD be afraid of highbie Heroes. Similarly, lowbie HEROES SHOULD be afraid of highbie Villains.
L1 Super Rubber Man should be afraid of Lord Recluse, and Lord Recluse should be able to stomp him into powder with a flick of his evil wrist. Super Rubber Man's fists of rubber fury should bounce off Lord Recluse without him even feeling them.
L1 Evil Rubber Monster should be afraid of Statesman, and Statesman should be able to stomp him into powder with a flick of his noble wrist. Evil Rubber Monster's fists of rubber evil should bounce off Statesman without him even feeling them.
What doesn't make sense about these two scenarios? If I can hammer Countess Crey at L43, should L1 Evil Rubber Monster brawl me to death chain holds me? I don't think so.
At any level I have played, I can find an even level team with little effort. I would therefore predict, at any level, I can find an even level PvP opponent if I'm so inclined. I see no reason that damage should scale for A) so there's enough fights to have or b) solely to avoid grief. Griefing happens with or without damage scaling. Damage scaling breaks the game in larger ways than L50s (or L15s) hunting L2s. If you're griefed, call a GM, or better, call the L50s goofing around in PP. I'm sure the same type of people who patrol PP at L30+ will be happy to help combat PvP griefers. And again, worst comes to worst, petition. Kill stealing is NOT a problem in CoH... hundreds upon hundreds of complaints and calls to other MMOs occurred in Beta (and to this day)... and it's still not a problem here. Ganking will never be a problem in CoH (it is impossible to exist)... and grief-hunting is AGAINST ToS (similarly to grief-stalking and killing someone else's targets). As KSing does not exist in CoH, neither will ganking.
-D
