Death_Mage

Here here.

That's why I still want to see Instant Instances. Villains just doing whatever they want instead of waiting for a newspaper or contact to tell them what to do.

Ok. We have at least Soul Taker, and I haven't look for any others. I find it a bit annoying, personally.

I would like to see some new contacts in CoH, especially unlockables. I'd like to see more contacts in CoV too.

Seriously, why AREN'T they dropping new contacts in to old zones each issue?

Are there any badge missions mission from Heroes? badge missions that, say, are required for an accolade?

Well yes, I'd like an alternate zone path as well.

Although, I see parallels with the hazard zone argument as a lot of people have with CoV. Since hazard zones aren't used much they don't get any content so they aren't used much.

Would you use hazard zones more if they had as much to do in them as normal zones? As many contacts (well hidden, of course), a police scanner, and the like?

I'd prefer hazard zones in CoV over CoH simply becuase of Masterminds. I would actually be able to go in and clean up solo against large groups. Plus my high level characters generally like to do that anyway.

So what IS the main reason why the hazard zones are empty? Is it because they are essentially unsoloable (especially early on)? Is it because there's only a handful of missions there anyway so there's really nothing worth doing?

To say CoV zones are themselves hazard zones is just dishonest. A key aspect to hazard zones is the size of the spawns. In CoV, there may be a lot of enemies standing around on the street, but rarely in groups larger than 4. Which is no different than any other outside zone I've seen for CoH.

I will give you credit. You are at least finally trying to discuss the issue instead of blowing it off.

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Since you asked here it is. I remember now why I skipped replying to this.

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Now that said maybe you don't like the content you have recieved, but you can't deny the new content that added.

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Sure we can.

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Incorrect the content is there for both villains and heros. I fail to see how it isn't content for villains.

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It's quite simple, really.

It is the difference between contented being added FOR a game, and content being added TO a game.


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Not really but if you think it is that is fine.

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There is a large difference. Imagine if you will that Issue 12 is nothing but the addition of being able to set up City of Heroes to run a virtual fish tank screen saver when you go AFK. This is certainly something new added to the game, but by no means would it be in any way adding something substantial to the game. To the villain side, that's essentially what I10 was. Oh sure, there were new features, but it was not added with villains in mind for anything other than simply throwing them a bone to appease them. I've already outlined how they could have made RWZ truly dual-side content. Some of the new technology implemented could then have been used to make other parts of both games more interesting. The ability for a contact to give different missions and especially text based on your AT would have added a new element to the game, if used properly. Instead, both sides are treated to the same missions, the same stories, the same everything. However, since it's easier to believe that villains would team up to do hero things when a large threat is encountered, the stories were written to reflect villains crossing over in a time of need. If for I12 your hero was given Westin Phipps as a contact, would you happily accept the new content to destroy schools and the like? Would you complain that it went against your chars? Would you just ignore their story and run with it anyway, because hey, it's something to do?
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As a red side player, none of the content added to CoV since I7 has had any sense of being aded for CoV. There is not a single thing I can point out and say "They were thinking about Villains when they designed this." Not one.


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wrong.

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Despite your complete lack of any solid argument here, your statement that *I* somehow CAN point to something from I8-I11 as being "build especially for CoV" is flatly absurd, on many levels. However, since you didn't bother to even try to make a case here, I won't bother to point out how foolish you sounded doing so.
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The pseudo-trials in I11 were the closest they've come since I7 to making content designed FOR villains. Yes, they are villain story arcs. Yes, they actually treat the villains as villains instead of heroes. But in order to do so, they had to destroy the given story and history of the game.

Take Mender Tesseract's Task Force. Levels 25-34. This is important, I know a lot of people have only used the Ouroboros to let their 50's do what they missed, but Tesseract is designed for players level 25-34.

In this task force, the villain (who can solo), or group of villains, put Lord Recluse in power. At level 25. You're still nothing but a grunt at even 34. You're still one of Recluse's followers (since, you know, he's the ONLY leading force on the Villain side). Everything you're doing is still under his watchful eye, and under his orders.

But he owes his very power to you. At level 25.

The entire TF leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because it seems so obviously slapped together without any forethought. I'm not saying the hero side ones are any better, becuase I haven't seen them. But this was crap. It was not added FOR the game, it was added TO the game, quickly slapped together to give us something to do.


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Here is where you show your lack of creativity. First the news paper articles in the prerelease show what the world would be like if Recluse hadn't taken the islands and in that world you wouldn't be where you are at this point. You can choose to ignore it if you want, but that is the games world view and mechanic. By the same token you can play a Sith Lord if you want, it is just that the game mechanics will be fighting you every step of the way.

This is important, when you play an online game you are subject to the constraints of the game and its engine. If you work with it your rewarded with fun. If you fight the game mechanics and assumptions you get that bitter taste in your mouth. Your trying to impose your will on the game mechanics and that is a fight you can never win.

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Nothing that you've said here has any relevance. "What the world would be like without Recluse" is completely without merit. First off, there is the basic principal of what information is and is not cannon - That being that no matter how "official" something is, if it's not IN the material itself, it's not cannon. That aside, conceptually, almost no char of mine that would be changed if Reculse weren't in power. Hell Hound would still be a demon, Epoch Eclipse would still be an alien, Feign Death would still be death incarnate. Etc. etc. The only ones that, conceptually, WOULD care in the least are the ones specifically built to be Recluse's toadies and grunts. The Arachnos soldiers themselves. And even then, for all but the most brain dead among them, the thought that THEY put Recluse in charge would mean that they would no longer feel the need to be his servents, but that Recluse is beholden to them, and not vice versa as the rest of the game is built around.

There is no lack of creativity here except with the devs and the game itself.
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Now, it may seem like a minor point to you, and it is. But that's part of the problem. Even something so inane, so trivial that it is taken for granted, the smallest detail... is left out. The disparity has gotten SO bad, SO obvious, that something as insignificant as an anniversary badge isn't even considered by the dev teams any more. Heroes get their badges for years 1, 2, 3, they'll get it again for year 4. Villains got their badge for year 1..... and then nothing at the year 2 mile marker.



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You also get the badges, they are for the game as a whole. The devs have essentially admitted that CoH and CoV are and always have been one game. It was a marketing ploy initially that spun them as two games. In effect Matt/Positron is saying there is only one game not two so there will be no badges for the aniversary of the first paid expansion. What your asking for is that each paid expansion recieve its own badge. If they where truely seperate games you would never recieve the 2 and 3 year aniversary badges for the game launch. Any bitter taste you have from this is your own faulty expectations.

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Heroes were able to get the CoV 1 year badge. Villains are able to get the CoH badges. That does not change the fact the anniversary for my side of the game is now ignored. Tell me, if they changed the date for the anniversary badges to celebrate CoV, and stopped giving out CoH badges, do you think people would have accepted it while saying "Thank you sir, may I please have another?"

As for their being one game, sorry, no. They are two games. My copy of City of Villains is quite specifically CoV only. I had to get CoH later to get it's access. As I stated before, it is no different than such combination games as World of Xeen or Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Two games that, yes, do have points of commonality where they can be combined, but otherwise are two separate products, purchased separately, paid for separately, used separately.

On that note, no you cannot claim that "Old CoH and New CoH are two separate games by that logic." You cannot access "New" CoH content without having CoH. You can access CoV w/o having CoH and vice versa. The comparison is just foolish.
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Not fixing broken ATs, not getting VEATs, watching heroes get their versions of our content for no reason other than WE had something THEY didn't, not having hazard zones, not having any variety in the zones, only ONE zone for each level range, a serious lack in SFs, new story lines that go completely at odds with current or previous story lines, all co-op content from the RWZ to the holiday events being designed FOR heroes but added TO villains... they're never going to fix any of that if they can't even muster up enough devotion to a game - a game that we pay just as much for as any blue sider - to mark it's anniversary.


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Again you fail to grasp the realities of the game and the world. When Cryptic spun down development after COV's release the support levels where brought down. They are only now expanding the staff to the levels you are expecting and think exist. Note that just after the release of I11 after 2 years of whimpering and crying blasters have had there inherant fixed. Also note that Castle is actively working on something for stalkers and some of the other villain AT's. That you don't accept the realities of what the staff they had could do is again your problem.

One of the things you fail to grasp is that COV was built with many of the lessons learned from the first 5 issues of COH. That is why there are no hazard zones. Instead each zone was built large and the hazard zone was incorporated into the individual zones designs.

It your perception not the reality that the RWZ and Ouroboros are Hero only content that is tacked on to the villain side. That reality fails to meet your expectations the simple truth of this. The RWZ and Ouroboros are as villainous as you want them to be.

And again why would there be a seperate aniversary for something that isn't a seperate game? you can't even buy COV any more as a seperate game unless you look for an old box to buy. The only version for sale is the combined Good versus Evil version. Again reinforcing the harsh reality that it isn't two games it is one.

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There is more than a small discrepancy, though. I want you to preform a simple test:

Go through CoH, and count up every single thing, gameplay wise, that you see that you CAN'T do in CoV.

Then go do the same with CoV.

CoV has Masterminds. That's about it. There's some unique power sets, but that's to be expected. It's a GOOD thing that there are different sets for different sides. Unique content is a drawing force, and there needs to be more of it - on BOTH sides.

This is where the big problem is. You, and others like you who treat the games as one game (and this includes the devs) are quite simply cheating both sides out of good content. The devs are terrified of making anything new for CoV becuase the legacy players, yourself included, will come to the forum in droves and demand that you get what villains had. We saw it with I8. I8 being focused on heroes was not a bad thing. I8 giving the heroes all of Villain's unique points was. Instead of designing something specifically for heroes, they tried to hammer CoV content's square peg into CoH's round hole. Safeguard missions are crap, a pale imitation, thrown in SOLELY because Villains got something new. Instead of new content, you got rehashed content. And because of it, because of people like you, neither side can have anything good and unique to them again.

I hope you're proud of yourself.
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You, Terra, don't "get it". You're never going to "get it". But I actually DO play red side. Every time I log in I'm presented with evidence that our game just doesn't matter to the devs. They stopped designing FOR City of Villains nearly two years ago.

It breaks my heart that I finally find a game I love, and it is abandoned by it's creators.

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You Death-mage just don't "get it" and I'm afraid that you aren't. I actually play the red side and am presented with lots of new toys and things to play with.

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No, you responded that YOUR villains just IGNORED what Vanguard said and went on their merry way.

Completely ignoring the various situations I brought up (chars allied with the Rikti, chars who ARE aliens bent on destroying the human race, etc.) Basically, characters fighting AGAINST their own, personal, interests by joining Vanguard.

And I responded to your "fake them out" bit also, which you ignored.

Quite frankly, I'm a bit tired of listening to cry-baby blue-siders who turn a blind eye to real problems in the game simply becuase they feel superior becuase "they were here first."

You know, Terra, there have been a lot of very specific points that have been brought up, here and elsewhere. If you REALLY want to respond to what you perceive to be nothing by people playing the "victim card", then why don't you actually respond to the specific issues? Otherwise, you really aren't adding anything to the discussion, and are just making yourself out to look willfully ignorant.

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These are the people who ask for merged markets.
These and the people who actually understand economics.

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These are the people who don't care if villains get shafted by the grossly inflated prices that heroes charge and are willing to pay for who knows how long before the markets come anywhere close to "equilibrium".

No one on the villainside pays 10,000 inf for BRASS.

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Champion, Villain side.

Common salvage drops for low level mystic can go for 50k+. Luck Charm is a popular 10-25k item.

Donno how Luck Charm compares on your server. Brass is pretty low for us though.

Yes, you can.

I can play CoV w/o touching any hero side content. I can avoid PvP zones, I can avoid RWZ, I can skip Pocket D, and play NOTHING but CoV.

CoH players can do the same with their game.

The two games do however have points of intersection. You can go to RWZ, PvP zones, Pocket D. You can chat with players on the other side, you can group with 'em etc.

But that still doesn't make them "the same game".

The World of Xeen.
Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

This is hardly the first time someone came up with the "two separate but merged" games concept. They are STILL two SEPARATE but merged games.

I'd LOVE to take advantage of Vanguard. But we aren't presented with any opportunities to do so. I'd love to sabotage them. I'd love to break up the peace conference, pick fights with Lady Grey, I'd love to work for the waring Rikti (oh wait, already did that in Grandville, now I have to turn my back on him becuase the almighty Vanguard says so).

If the devs had given any thought to there being TWO games, instead of just assuming it's one, RWZ could still exist. But there'd be three sets of contacts.

There'd be Vanguard, trying to hire anyone they can to fight the Rikti. The contacts would have different missions, or at LEAST different mission TEXT for heroes and villains, to use each side's strengths and not try to force one to go against their natures. There'd be a side dedicated to working with Heroes, with missions to stop sabotage etc. There'd be a side dedicated to working with the Villains. We'd be allowed to tear stuff up, throw a monkey wrench, even trying to help the Rikti win (and why not, some Villains have the exact same goals as the Rikti and don't care how they get pulled off).

It's very easy to have included co-op content but still designed FOR CoV as well as CoH.

But they didn't. We have one side in RWZ. We have Vanguard, which is looking for Heroes and they'll take 'em wherever they can get 'em, even from the Rogue Isles as necessary. We have glitches when Villains enter the zone, our difficulty marker gets screwed up, etc. In general, since the zone is a hero zone, villain side get flaws occurring as the games weren't programmed to handle cross data like that. I can be on your team but I can't pass you an Awake. (I think that one was fixed, but I did run into it a few times.) Things like that.

The additions were Hero sided. It was very possible for them to have co-op, but take CoV into consideration. They didn't. We have every right to be upset about it.

If, in Issues 12-15, all of the added content to City of Heroes was your characters preforming bank robberies, kidnappings, extortions, assassinating world leaders, attempting to kill Statesman and destroy the Freedom Phalanx, would you complain?

Do you WANT Issues 12-15 to be that for Heroes?

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Now that said maybe you don't like the content you have recieved, but you can't deny the new content that added.

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Sure we can.

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Incorrect the content is there for both villains and heros. I fail to see how it isn't content for villains.

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It's quite simple, really.

It is the difference between contented being added FOR a game, and content being added TO a game.

As a red side player, none of the content added to CoV since I7 has had any sense of being aded for CoV. There is not a single thing I can point out and say "They were thinking about Villains when they designed this." Not one.

The pseudo-trials in I11 were the closest they've come since I7 to making content designed FOR villains. Yes, they are villain story arcs. Yes, they actually treat the villains as villains instead of heroes. But in order to do so, they had to destroy the given story and history of the game.

Take Mender Tesseract's Task Force. Levels 25-34. This is important, I know a lot of people have only used the Ouroboros to let their 50's do what they missed, but Tesseract is designed for players level 25-34.

In this task force, the villain (who can solo), or group of villains, put Lord Recluse in power. At level 25. You're still nothing but a grunt at even 34. You're still one of Recluse's followers (since, you know, he's the ONLY leading force on the Villain side). Everything you're doing is still under his watchful eye, and under his orders.

But he owes his very power to you. At level 25.

The entire TF leaves a bitter taste in my mouth because it seems so obviously slapped together without any forethought. I'm not saying the hero side ones are any better, becuase I haven't seen them. But this was crap. It was not added FOR the game, it was added TO the game, quickly slapped together to give us something to do.

Now, it may seem like a minor point to you, and it is. But that's part of the problem. Even something so inane, so trivial that it is taken for granted, the smallest detail... is left out. The disparity has gotten SO bad, SO obvious, that something as insignificant as an anniversary badge isn't even considered by the dev teams any more. Heroes get their badges for years 1, 2, 3, they'll get it again for year 4. Villains got their badge for year 1..... and then nothing at the year 2 mile marker.

Not fixing broken ATs, not getting VEATs, watching heroes get their versions of our content for no reason other than WE had something THEY didn't, not having hazard zones, not having any variety in the zones, only ONE zone for each level range, a serious lack in SFs, new story lines that go completely at odds with current or previous story lines, all co-op content from the RWZ to the holiday events being designed FOR heroes but added TO villains... they're never going to fix any of that if they can't even muster up enough devotion to a game - a game that we pay just as much for as any blue sider - to mark it's anniversary.

You, Terra, don't "get it". You're never going to "get it". But I actually DO play red side. Every time I log in I'm presented with evidence that our game just doesn't matter to the devs. They stopped designing FOR City of Villains nearly two years ago.

It breaks my heart that I finally find a game I love, and it is abandoned by it's creators.

The cake is a lie.

Ponies? What about the Big Red Ball? you know the only reason they haven't implemented it is because it's a Big Red Ball. If it were a Big Blue Ball it'd already be in the game.

Then Villains would have all KINDS of new ammo to use against the heroes.....

Doozy of a typo, but I think it works.

They devs don't have CoV. Brutes have Electric Melee. Obviously the devs love CoV. They hate CoH.

Hrm... good call on those zones, especially Terra Volta. Would be nice if Villains had some good zones like that....

...And he said it THREE YEARS AGO....

Talk about a necropost. Seriously, WTF man?

Hell Hound, Level 50 Fire/Invuln Brute.

XXP weekend goooood. Probably wouldn't have made it without, the game was starting to get really boring.

Now to figure out what to do with myself...

"Is there life after 50?"

Another thing the insane prices do is discourage small, exclusive SG's. It kinda forces spamming advertisments and blindly recruiting as many people as possible. You need a gigantic group of active players to really be able to afford anything good, and even if you manage to save up for it otherwise, the upkeep will kill you.