Darth_Khasei
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Posts
3209 -
Joined
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Looks like they are looking for new fans.
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Those guys..."NC SOFT" killed the game we all knew and loved. If an legal emulator shows up that can restore once was sure, if not I highly doubt it.
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Quote:I mean I know you have issues, but you really need to stop making things up and attributing them to me. I did not say "Revenues didn't matter". You making that up and then going on some rant is ridiculous and low brow. Stop it.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Complete tripe. Is this your new line ? The "Revenues didn't matter" started sounding ridiculous even in your own ears ? All games close ? Tell it to Everquest, Ultima Online, Meridian 59 all still going.
The people predicting the games decline from bad developer decisions and policies were 100% correct. The examples are there and unmistakeable. I remember the ultra mode beta when people were complaining right and left the new warehouse maps were killing their graphics cards. Devs response, silence and put them in anyway. How do you expect people to continue to play when you put in features that make it completely unplayable for them ? -
Quote:Aside for the couple of people that have been predicting the end of the game "for years", there were not people around here predicting the game would end Nov 2012, that just did not happen for whatever reason.Originally Posted by Dz131
pretty sure alot of people predicated this when f2p launched but didnt want to admit it.
People coming here now saying that they predicted this are full of bullcrap. Repeatedly saying a game is going to be close for 2-5 years does not qualify as a prediction in my book since all games are going to close at some time. -
Quote:Not sure if serious.Originally Posted by gec72
Yeah but he should have known he was going to be fired. Apparently he didn't pay enough attention. Or went to work with his eyes closed. Or didn't notice he was being paid by the Reserve Bank of Zimbabwe. Or something.
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Quote:No that is not what the utter bullcrap consists of in this case, but that is already well known here.Originally Posted by Brillig
Or maybe what "utter bullcrap" consists of is looking at the revenue numbers for the past two years, realizing there should have been two major positive events, and thinking that the game was doing well.
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I really don't think there was any need to quote me in that wall of text since it really just appears you had a bunch of personal stuff you needed to get off your chest so to speak.
The point of my post more specifically deals with people coming here now trying to claim they predicted this all along which is utter bullcrap. -
Quote:There are a couple of people here now playing the Nostradamus role, claiming to have predicted the downfall etc...Originally Posted by Dragon_Shadow
hmmm you seem to believe I was...not looking at something that was in plain and obvious sight right?
From the view of those of us playing the game there was very little to indicate our game, let alone the studio developing for the game, was anywhere near the chopping block. No cut back in development resources that we could see. Continued hiring for the studio as far as we could tell. Constant pleasure and happiness from those working on the game glad to be bringing us new and exciting stuff. Obviously we should have been expecting the game to be cut off, right?
Yes people quoting the numbers are correct....less money was coming in compared to earlier in the game's lifespan. I do believe that is a rather common occurance in all games though...as the game goes on people leave to try other things. It has even happened to the juggernaut of the MMO world. The only possible indication I might have seen that said CoH was going away was being unable to get a Time Card from Gamestop in mid-August...and that's happened before so I didn't really think anything of it.
It like the 4tran guy that was going around a lot game forums predicting doom for the game, only so he could come back eight years later and say I told you so.....Pfft. -
You know what nvm.
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Quote:I am pretty sure they said point blank they were caught just as unaware as the player base.Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
I can't remember where I read it now, but Paragon had started hiring again about a week before the news came down. Furthermore, War Witch is quoted as saying "We were doing so WELL!" in response to the news.
If there were signs, Paragon missed them, too. -
Quote:Agreed.Originally Posted by Xzero45
NCsoft dropped the bomb on Paragon pretty suddenly. If Paragon knew CoH was gonna cave, or if there were any legit warning signs, they wouldn't have worked on I24 and planned ahead as many issues as they did.
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Quote:I think its a solid bet that there are additional factors that go beyond the secret project as well. Those things have been set forth very eloquently by others in various threads. They do not have any of the personal axe grinding overtones of "Mission Architect- CoH Killer"Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
I think for me, i would need more info before connecting their secret project with "...continued support of the franchise no longer fits within our long term goals..." as the main reason for the shutdown.
It could be a factor for the closure decision...but still not sure it's a significant part of that decision. Since that project was said to not be part of CoX. If NCSoft didn't like the new project because of its target audience, that sounds like a good reason to deny just that project and not the whole thing unless something else more compelling was the driving force.
Declining revenue is one of those things mentioned in other threads, but in those cases people are a bit more reasonable when attaching the reasons for the decline like the global economy, release of newer games and the overall decline in MMO players across the board. The myopic viewpoint of the thread title "Mission Architect- CoH Killer" is just to limited to be taken as anything other than personal axe grinding.Quote:Originally Posted by Pebblebrook
[tinfoil] Perhaps Paragon's insistence on continuing with the secret project and diverting resources from CoX to it sounds just as plausible a reason but not sure how likely. [/tinfoil]
I mentioned this elsewhere but i still believe CoX's declining revenue is a significant part of their decision. And it wasn't $10mil per year...it's looking like it's down to maybe $10mil this year and even possibly down to about $9 mil.
Which is down from about $11mil the year before...which was down from $13.6mil the year before that and down from $17.8 mil before that and so on.
If the rate of decline continued to next year, we could possibly see maybe only about $8mil for 2013.
A thread topic and supportive perspective of "Mission Architect- A contributing Factor to declining sales" with the same chart and position might have been viewed more favorably. I can see that some people left the game right around that time as I was going to myself until they announced MA was coming. It made me stay.
It brought new people and some old people left nothing new for any MMO. As was mentioned earlier in the thread it is the OP's sole factor focus that is just not accurate even from the perspective that acknowledges sales declines AND players leaving the game solely due to MA.
That is NOT what killed COH and most people without and MA axe to grind can see this truth. -
Quote:I have never insisted "poor sales and very likely losses didn't matter" ANYWHERE in my posts man, you just made that up.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
Cobra Man insists that MA killed the game.
You insist poor sales and very likely losses didn't matter
I don't see how you can claim your point is any more valid than his. In order for your position to be true, the proposition that "If CoH had twice the sales it does now and 5 to 10 times the net profit NCsoft still would have closed it" would have to be true. That proposition is at best very unlikely to be true.
I have not made any kind of claims about the finances other than what has been talked about here which is the game was generating revenue as earlier corrected for accuracy vs profit. I do remember at least one dev being quoted as saying the game was profitable, how much clearly not enough for the direction NC SOFT said they wanted to go in.
The only thing I have repeatedly done is parrot what NC SOFT and Paragon has said about why the game was closed. At no time did either party even hint that the game was not profitable nor did they say anything about which issues/features had "killed" the game.
Heck people were in here with the nerve to start a what dev decision killed the game. It's all very low brow, absurd and not true. The only remedy to the false claim axe grinding against features as the reason for NC SOFT's decision, is to repeat the truth that each party has already acknowledged.
The acknowledged truth by both parties is more valid than personal axe grinding claims any day. -
Quote:Agreed.Originally Posted by Lucky666
The more I hear about this secret project the more sad I get at never being able to play it. Sounded real promising to a gamer like myself. I hope one day in the no so distant future the beans get spilled about the details and such and hopefully gets picked up by another studio/developer what have you.
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Quote:Furthering my point and thanks for the accuracy.Originally Posted by Brillig
No. $10 million/year is revenue, not profit.
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Quote:As I understand it from what Z was saying, its the guy that played WOW for days on end but now has a job and family.Originally Posted by Quin
What in crappity does that even mean?
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Quote:It is NOT there and that is why it is not mentioned. The reality will always go back to the truth which NC SOFT AND Paragon have BOTH confirmed.Originally Posted by Another_Fan
They don't mention but it's there. They haven't canned wildstar. yet despite the fact it's easier to kill a game before launch than after spending the marketing money to bring in customers. You can also be certain that there was a profit number that there was no way NCsoft would walk away from.
The studio was shutdown because the "NEW" secret project aimed at the evolved hardcore gamer was in a different direction than NC SOFT wanted to go period.
So while it is clear that COH was not a huge money maker (reports have it at 10 million per year), it was NOT closed due to a decline in sales because of AE or ANY other feature/issue.
That claim is personal axe grinding crapola with no real factual support from the parties involved. -
Quote:The "backlash" from AE introduced in I17/18? was NOT a contributing factor, nor was ANY other feature or issue including I13 when pvp was close to killed. You saying that they were and showing chart sales do not prove anything other than "your speculation and bias about AE".Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
Good to see you kept it clean
I would agree with much of your post.
The point I've been making is that the backlash to AE made it much easier to cancel CoH because I believe that it contributed greatly to the revenue drop.
Would NCsoft have canceled the game had it been drawing in $20,000,000 a year, rather than just $10,000,000?
To be honest, I don't know (and we'll never know) but I'll say that it may have had a bearing on the decision to cancel.
As for this thread, it is indeed based on a personal issue I had with the game - but non factual?
I would point again to the chart I included in the thread.
Yes it could also reflect the launch of CO and the worldwide economic downturn, but my personal experience was that the AE backlash was the real culprit that caused to people leave.
NCsoft delivered the final blow, but AE - or rather the misuse of AE - made the game a dead man walking.
That's all I'm saying.
It is as simple as NC SOFT and Z put it, they decided to go in a different direction than Paragon was going with the secret project period.
If Z or NC SOFT had mentioned sales as a contributing factor then you would have specific support for the specific claim about sales, but you don't because that had nothing to do with it.
Put away your axe mate, it is blinding you to the established facts that are staring you right in the face. -
Quote:The facts in this case have been laid out already by the party that made the decision. Specifically NC SOFT stated they decided to go in a different direction. They made no reference to declining sales from x point to x point(ie. since AE or ANY other feature was introduced) as a contributing factor in their decision. Attempts by OP and others to "blame" game features that they did not like is nothing more than axe grinding at best.Originally Posted by Furio
and things like an OP ignoring the on-topic posts in their thread and instead arguing about what constitutes a troll....that's kinda trollish behavior.
Z confirmed in the podcast that the target audience of the new secret project was the evolved hardcore gaming market a direction NC SOFT did not want go. There was no reference to declining sales or features driving people away as a contributing factor in NC SOFT's decision.
NC SOFT is going in the direction of big budget blockbusters that cast a wide net targeting as many gamers as possible and did not see specifically targeting the evolved hardcore gaming market as part of that wide net.
So NC SOFT decided not to continue to support the new projects direction and closed Paragon with COH being a casualty of the higher decision.
These are the established facts in this case and were well before this thread appeared. Of course anyone can continue to spout non-factual personal issues they had with the game, that will not change the facts one bit. -
Quote:Yup.Originally Posted by Father Xmas
It's a little too wild west for me there. I prefer someplace where people don't toss around profanity and slurs like an XBox tween with a headset and too much Red Bull.
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Quinch- I really like this letter. It is a much better letter than many I have seen and certainly better than anything I would have written.
I don't think that corporations and the decisions made by people within have anymore room for the kind of sentiments and even economic reasons you so eloquently laid out. It appears pretty clear that the blockbuster movie type mentality is alive and well within the corporate structure of these big gaming companies.
Z was just on a podcast talking about the target audience of evolved hardcore gamers for the secret project, and NC SOFT said they wanted to move in a different direction. Looking at GW2 it is clear that direction had no room for niche gamers like COH and the new secret project Paragon was working on.
The studio was not producing a blockbuster so they had to go. Frankly, it is SOP for many corporations starting in the late 80's, it's just evolved into the TR type deal or the overnight deal we got with COH. There is pretty much no consideration of the customer beyond well those 50k ppl will just move on to GW2, if not so what no biggie.
This and the TR episode has done me some good personally. It removed the veil so to speak and now with clear vision I see no reason to ever give NC SOFT or any MMO another penny of my money. If they don't have a plex system like EVE Online, I am not going to bother spending thousands of dollars over years of playing just to be treated like a used scumbag the way NC SOFT did us with COH...no thanks. -
Quote:Understood. At first I thought it was a joke thread, but then I got queasy when I recognized some people were serious.Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
I never thought I'd say this but I miss the mods.
It bums me out that COH's memory will be tainted by a bunch of people who want to have physical relations with video game characters.
Why is this sketchiness being perpetuated? -
Better more gritty and real post apoc was done in the road and the book of eli. Not to mention the direct ripoff of Eli and catness.
The show is boring and frankly stupid in most parts, but hey its US TV and saying that alone should lower all expectations.
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Quote:As your case has been stated it is clear to some that therein lies an axe to grind. This takes into account completely ignoring the stated facts as set forth by NC SOFT AND PARAGON regarding them deciding to go in a different direction.Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
Let's clear this up.
This is not a troll thread.
It contains my view of the ruinous impact that AE had on our game, and I've put that viewpoint across as plainly as I could.
The fact that several people disagree with it, doesn't make it a troll thread.
If that were the case, there wouldn't be a whole lot of point in discussing anything would there?
The recent, unpleasant trend in people troll bombing threads that they disagree with isn't unexpected given the circumstances, but it's a shame that these forums are getting dragged down in that manner.
I put my money where my mouth is regarding AE.
I said at the time AE was rolled out on these forums that it was going to be damaging to this game in the long run. If I could find those posts I would post them here, but I think they are long gone.
What Z said in the podcast seemed to confirm that NC SOFT got the willies about the secret project they were doing, decided to go in a different direction and COH closing down was a by product of the higher decision made with ZERO consideration to AE and it's effects good or bad on the game.
You repeating made up ish does not make it anymore true than it was when it was just in your head. -
Quote:It's a troll topic as well stated by others up thread. The fact that you are trying to turn this into some kind of personal thing because of being called on it I understand but it does not change the facts here.Originally Posted by Cobra_Man
'Axe grinding troll drivel'?
The only person trolling here is you. No one else is saying anything that even comes close to it.
Just because you don't like the topic of a thread, doesn't automatically make it a troll thread.
You're coming across here as if you really haven't read the thread - or you've just skimmed over it.
Do yourself a favor and actually read it - or go and troll some other thread elsewhere.
The decisions made to close the game have been laid out by both NC SOFT and Paragon directly. Paragon was working on another project and NC SOFT decided to go in another direction leaving COH's closing as a by product of that higher decision. Nothing more nothing less and certainly not anything near the suggested thread topic.