Darkjedi

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I say we all storm Rob Liefeld's mansion and beat him with pillowcases full of oranges until he looks like one of his drawings!


/e starts angry mob

TL

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Cool on the way back can we stop off at Greg Land's place?

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A curse on thee!

I like Greg Land's work. I've been re-reading Sojourn just this week, actually.

GIL!

*high-five*

It's awesome to have you back!!

That looks like a ton of fun! I miss sketching at cons, booth-babes, costumes... the entire convention scene. Someday, I'll need to get out there and visit you COH guys face to face.

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LOL. Forum rules aren't that hard to follow. Silly Battlewraith.

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is a flame....

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Well, I didn't mean it as such. I was just trying to do a little friendly teasing, between friends. I didn't realize it would be misunderstood as I DO like your work and I DO respect your posts. I thought the 'silly Battlewraith' was pretty clear to be just a friendly little poke and not an attack of any sort.

But, as is so common on the internet, my intent was misunderstood.

I apologize for whatever offense you took, as it wasn't intended.

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...Since Doug's got his panties in a wad...

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Hehe, I do?

I don't care how he gets his message out. I was just confused because it was mentioned there was a ban, followed by his posting on a new account. The logical concerned is that he might get another account banned is all. No worries from me.

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...i am so confused....

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As was I.

I was actually under the assumption that posting on another's account was prohibited, but the COH boards seem friendlier overall compared to most boards - even the mods.

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Well aparently Battlewraith can't post here anymore because of some silly banhammer...

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LOL. Forum rules aren't that hard to follow. Silly Battlewraith.

I post here because they let me.

Plus, I feel I have something to contribute. Once I feel my contributions have run their course, I'll move on.

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...But he said, he'd not draw a black person in it, as he doesn't draw them...

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!!!

Are you kidding me?!?

I've seen artists pull a lot of strange and stupid stuff, but that takes the cake.

I posted this elsewhere (MMOART thread), but perhaps the comments are more relevant here;

I'm never offended when someone critiques me. There isn't a 'blanket rule' here that says you can't offer your opinion. If you wanna critique a piece, I say go right ahead. This is a forum, after all.

You have the right to critique. I have the right to take or ignore your comments. It's all good.

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I apologize if I offended anyone. I frequent other forums where critique, whether positive or negative, is encouraged over just saying something is nice, and I did not realize it was not appreciated...

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I'm never offended when someone critiques me. There isn't a 'blanket rule' here that says you can't offer your opinion. If you wanna critique a piece, I say go right ahead. This is a forum, after all.

You have the right to critique. I have the right to take or ignore your comments. It's all good.

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...
Art is, IMO, created to be critiqued...

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I disagree with your assertion that art is created to be critiqued. Otherwise, without critique, there would be no purpose to art?

I create art to give form to the images I see in my head. I see worlds and characters in a ghostly, dreamy way, and I have the ability to give those characters form. That's all. If people choose to enjoy or not enjoy my work, that's up to them.

If someone chooses to critique my work, that's there perogative. And it's mine to choose to take the critique into advisement or not. Some critiques I'll listen to and consider, while others I ignore completely.

One rules stands true; I won't change a piece once I consider it done, and once a customer has signed off on it. Once it's done, critiques are mostly meaningless unless the 'lesson learned' can be applied to the next piece. Other than that, they're just academic.

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Soul,

I'm communicating with Gill now....

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Did he indicate if he knew what was happening here? I would be curious to know if he got word.

With Gil back in action, I'm going to bow out as well. Juggertha got something great going and it helped boost moralle, gave us all a ton of fun, and possibly contributed in some minor way to the reboot.

With the return of MMOART, I think it's only appropriate for customers to resume their relationship directly with Gil. It would be wrong for us to continue.

We're here for ya, Gill!

Or Harry Potter

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...You use a rationale that makes no distinction between tools and content/assets and doesn't really have a basis in how 3d applications are structured. A tool is something created for a specific purpose. A paintbrush is specifically designed to apply paint. Likewise digital tools are coded to do specific tasks....

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Ah. OK, I think I see where our different perceptions are in disagreement. You're differentiating between 'tool' (as in, part of a program) and 'content' (as in, an asset to be rendered).

I was certainly generalizing by calling any item used to make a different item a tool. Just as a hammer is used to make a house, I was considering a 3D model necessary to make a render... and thus referred to it as a 'tool' without regard to the proper terminology (where a tool is part of a program and not a standalone asset). I admit I often generalize my use of terms when debating 3D, using their more familiar colloquialisms for simplicity. I fall into that pattern mostly because newcommers to the 3D world aren't always familiar with the exacting use of such terms, and I didn't mean the resulting confusion.

Apologies to the able coders that skillfully provide tools for the constructioon of great 3D applications.

To clarify, I consider a 3D item to be a tool. While there is artistry involved in the creation of that tool, the item itself isn't a 'finished' product because it's reliant on the rendering stage to bring it to life.

I also consider a paintbrush a tool. While there is artistry involved in the creation of the tool, the paintbrush itself isn't responsible for creating a final image.

In both cases, there is need for an artist to bring the item (whether virtual or real-world) to life.

Sometimes, I hear critics mention 'you used another person's mesh, textures, and scenes'. By that same logic, I will point out that a painter uses another person's paints, brushes, and canvas. It's remarkably rare for a painter to list every company that contributed to their paintings, and I've only met one artist in my life that actually made their own paints.

So why should a digital artist be required to make their own models?

I am an end-user. I pay good money to wonderful modellers who are better, faster, and more skilled at making great virtual models for me. Just like I pay Sharpie, Crayola, Faber Castell, and a dozen others for my real-world art tools.
I will credit my modellers, but I have yet to credit Bic for my ball-point pen work.

As I've mentioned before, artists that place models in a scene together, hit'render', and call it a finished piece will always produce sub-standard work. The Poser community is rife with just such pieces, and the program is completely evil in the wrong hands. But I constantly preach that posing and rendering is just the first step to a good 3D piece - postwork is vital. That, to me, is where the artist steps in and makes the image a unique creation.

*EDIT* - Also to clarify; re-using a 3D item isn't lazy... but re-using the same posed/lighted/rendered final 2D image of a plane is a travesty. If I were to render an image of Superman saving a plane, and then take a commission where I dropped out Superman and added GenericHero saving the same plane, that would be represensible.

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Just a quick check-in to see if anybody needs me to do anything at this point.

It seems to be on automatic, though there are a lot of them without references. Should I be trying to find those?

I've got to say it one more time: I LOVE this community!

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I don't think you should seek out those that aren't already on this board. That's a lot of work on your part.

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...Yeah I didn't mean to imply that the were identical in terms of process, just that cutting corners in 2d is not somehow worse then in 3d because the latter lends itself to specialization, recycling of assets, etc.

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There's a significant difference between 2D and 3D assets in that a 2D image is usually perceived as a final image, whereas a 3D asset is never a final image. In fact, I can't think of an existing 3D creation that isn't created to be viewed through another 'window' (be it a game, movie, or 2D imaging software). That is to say, the 2D image is considered complete and there will be no alterations on the part of the customer. A 3D asset is EXPECTED to be posed, lighted, and arranged until the customer creates their final output.

*EDIT* - For the record, I agree that claiming a model as one's own work is tasteless. I'm happy to send modelling credits to anyone who needs to know where I get my 3D items. Also, many of the communities I frequent make it a practice to list modelling credits. Yay, modellers! You guys rock.

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I think when Darkjedi says, "This one. Definitely," I should probably listen to him...

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D'OH! Can I still take inspiration from it? I really like the poses because they fit my own particular 'heroic' style.

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...Not to mention 3d, where its commonplace to use other peoples meshes, textures, etc. to make a composition...

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Remember that in the 3D world, reuse is often intended and encouraged. 3D seperates between the modeller and the renderer as two different disciplines, and while some artists are able to perform both with equal skill, it's common for an artist to specialize in either the modelling side or the compositioning side. Additionally, the nature of a 3D model being relighted/reposed for a new piece of art makes reuse a powerful practicality.

In 2D, everything needs to be drawn/painted from scratch, so people expect uniqueness. When an artist repaints a commission to his own tastes (essentially recycling his own work), he's just being lazy.

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...Rough 2


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This one. Definitely. In fact, if you don't want to use this pose, I'll use it for either a "Legion of Superheroes" piece I'm working on, or "Superman/Supergirl".

Like Suichiro, I refuse commissions all the time, for many different reasons. If a costume looks bad, it won't be a piece I want to show in my gallery and won't be one I want to spend time on... so I'll select the next in line, instead.

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...Your copy taking away hits from his copy...

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Hit counts are a poor way of judging quality or skill.

Honestly, if my wife didn't play WOW, I wouldn't be playing it either. She started WOW right when the game launched, and she pushed me for a year before I started up my account. Interestingly, we play completely different styles;

I play one character and have been progressing through endgame. I'm in full purples, an active guild, have lots of gold and spare twink-gear... but all on one character.

My wife, however, plays a character to 70 and retires them, writing down the time it took to get to the highest level. She then starts a new character and levels to 70 with the exclusive goal of getting to the end faster than before. Then does it again. And again. She has something like 15 lvl 70's across a number of servers, with no interest in raids, gold, or loot.