Dahjee

Actually there are a few contacts and tutorials that point out and literally state the goals of Zone PvP in each zone you choose to PvP in. Ignoring them doesn't give you the right to make up one for yourself. I do see the point you are trying to make though. Just sayin.

My PvP defenders could care less about getting kills, and many of my disruption and CC toons as well. Admittingly, if I am on one of these toons and run out of teammates (I don't discriminate between those actually teamed with or not. I play my role regardless) in a zone to support... I usually won't hang around long and I'll switch to a toon that is designed to deal with the situation at hand. Sometines however, I do hang out to practice staying alive.

I'm afraid I just did. However I don't mind pretneding I didn't. (The Gin has kicked in!) My gaming Comp is an hour away.

There IS NOTHING to win in Zone PvP except the zone itself. (see SC and RV) Getting drops and lolrep is cool, but requires being teamed with people who get kills and not just getting them yourself. The only thing gained is clout and perhaps a complementary stroke of one's ego. Both which can be altered and manipulated. When you limit the definition of Player versus Player (PvP) to simply getting a kill personally. You reduce your skill level further than I'd like to say.


Zone PvP requires a completely different approach and defintion of success/skill when compared to arena. The inability to define and label this distinct line has been around long before I13. I welcome any "expert" willing to draw and define that line. We both know that my rep and perceived merit here make it impossible for me to start the debate. You don't want me starting more threads here, lol.


It's not... which is why.

Just guessing here but I'm thinking you never rolled a PvP toon with TP as a Travel. YMMV so this isn't me saying you should. My set up requires much less investment in Travel power slots than a standard SS/SJ'er and offers a lot more room for investment elsewhere. My TP foe has the standard slot with the Winters Gift proc in it. ACC and Range bonuses do the rest.

Again these powers offer two very different uses. Aside from the differences between range, recharge, stun, KB, AoE vs ST and total range from A to B... there lies the very distinct purpose of one being able to bring peeps to you... while the other is designed to put peeps where you want them.

Using both... can only build upon and enhance the reason you are using one in the first place.

Right here.

So you actually think about not thinking about anything else?

Meh, you could do better here. I never really claimed to be here for that purpose on a person by peson basis. I'm quite helpful in game though. You don't have to believe me though.

You never told me exactly what you're winning in Zone whn you get a kill or make it back to base? Please say something as epic the statement above.

I agre. That's far from the truth.

Your 'snip-fu" is getting better at dodging questions and points I see. Exactly where would new PvPers come from if and when perhaps the all controlling Devs and Numbers make PvP more appealing? The Sky? Perhaps you're jusy assuming that at best you'll get your old buddies that quit you long ago to come back?

Haha I get more aggro on my Dom that your simple taunt-Bot could ever dream of. You make meh famous!

Yes, but I don't wanna hurt ur feelins.

lol you can't even reach half of RV. Jump higher.

I am... but we still have work to do. You should consider teaming with me later. together we will win (what?) deh Zone together! lol.

Close, but not on point Max.

I'm not sure if it was your analogy or not, but someone once pointed out to me that no matter what I did to optimize a Yugo... it wouldn't win in a Formula 1 race... or something along those lines. Well very much of my point is that the only Race race is in arena where there i s winner, while Zone PvP is basically a public drive or highway. You can surely put a racecar on the highway and speed superfast everywhere you go... but it's not a race, and the Yugos you past will get to the same destination.

So it's really not lke I'm asking or expecting anyone to say AR/Dark is good. It's the fact too many cling to what's considered best when it is not applicable or needed to be so in many scenarios.

I'm delusional yet you Max seem to think exactly what of your influence to others? Why are you even here if not to try and influence those who read these posts to think of me so negatively among whatever else you add two cents to. Like I told Con... you can't have it both ways.

"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"
"Oh! Sure I can help. What is the best blaster you ask? A Psy/Em Blaster!"

"Man, the zone is filled with nothing but Psy/Em Blasters! Why when any blaster can get kills here?"
"Man it was the Devs and the I13 programming man... The Nu3bers made them do it."
"Well damn man! Don't they know they have a choice!?"
"Dude. I13: There is no choice. Don't you read the boards?"

It's quite reasonable to ask peeps to stop dumbing down PvPers with this nonsense when they know no better. If they are bad this will keep them that way. Keep blaming the Devs and the programming and MiDs DPS report that controls all in PvP... keep waiting on the Devs to make it feeel guuuud for you again. I'll keep enjoying myself and being optimistic and open minded. I'll keep replying to /tells that ask "How do you keep TPing when I'm attacking you???"

Obvious Speculation is speculation <- not sure if I got that right.

I agree those changes helped to add to the viability of blasters and defenders in PvP. However I believe it’s safe to say that those changes were equally based on PvE as well.

You can't have it both ways Conflicted... if you're admitting you put no thought into the advice you give and have been handing out copy/pasted replys to everyone the same... then take some responsibility for the staleness of PvP. You are helping to cause this as much or more than the Devs I hope you know. "The best is the best for a reason" you say... and go on to assume this is the goal of everyone who PvPs when its not that srs for all. Any Blaster set/set can hop around getting kills and drops and not dying in a zone and for some believe it or not.... this is perfectly acceptable. You claim to know whats best when the best isn't required. You may PvP only in zone these days, but it still seems you've been 'arenafied' and beleive you're winning something by getting a kill or losing something by dying in a zone.

I have nothing against farmers and PL'ers in PvE... but I doubt their voice could ever influence the whole PvE community. Yet this is basically the type of voice that runs the PvP community here. Again, take responsibility for how such an attitude of Min/Max can have a negative effect on the perception of PvP. Understand that such an attitude keeps a lot of people from trying it. You do want PvP to be better and include more people don't you?? Surely you can understand that we as players can affect such.
Wow I really hope you're not that bad on your Grav/ toons. D-Shift saves lives son. Recall friend can also keep someone from getting spiked among many other Team provided tactics in a zone. Whatever though. /agree to disagree.
I'm sure you'd also like to say how it's impossible for Brutes to zone with their fury bar near full... yet my defense based brute does it so much that people have to ask me if DB/ got a buff, lol. Roles are the same yet the powers used and the approach taken to fufill these roles are not th same."Tauntbot" is your version and purpose of any Tanker/Brute... when such spamming actually creates the opposite effect does it not? Don't peeps try and avoid a tauntbot???? Redefine Aggro Control. I did... why haven't you?
No. Super Teamwork should and does work... and considering we ALL have to PvE our toons in order to PvP, I'd say its pretty hard to believe there is "absolutely no correlation" between the two. Maybe you could elaborate on that one for me.

I believe each AT does indeed have a defining strength and a defining weakness that carries across each possible AT build. I beleive that each strength offers a counter to another AT's weakness in some way or form. This I beleive carries over into PvP by design.

Honestly I think it'd be pretty interesting to see the dialouge and arguements made of what the optimal "no duplicate" team would be and what counters people would come up with. Surely it would add more thinking to the process than what is required when allowed to just stack more of the same with more of the same. Again if it's too much to ask then forget I said anything.

I've never lost in a zone Conflict have you? Sure we've died plenty sure... but what exactly did we lose. Please stop arena'ing in my Zone. If I shared your definition of fun I probably would have quit the game years ago I'm sure. Pew pew pew pew pew pew hib run yawn pew pew pew pew pew pew hide run pew hib snore I won teh zone!

lol. That would make me feel special. You should add the word fuzzy in there somewhere.

Sorry nope. You missed that point by a mile.

Indeed ConFlicted... always a pleasure.

Shouldn't the best team be the one with the best players? the team with the best PvP skill, knowledge of team strengths and weakness, and the team that does a better job of PvPing as a team? I mean isn't that why they can make up rules about no "all stalker" teams and no this and that... to prevent bad teams from winning based solely on stacking one tactic? I could speculate as well like you did on whether there would be a winner but the only real way to find out would be to ask the bestest arena folks to try it and get back to us.

I agree that a standard and stale Jump team consisting of the same proven tactic and the same builds would beat a random and varied set up of toons. I don't think I gave any impression otherwise though you see you seem to act as if I did.

The devs cannot change this mentality with ruleset changes or fixes. PvPers can. It's as simply as saying "hey, we made up another rule!"

Fun is the point. Ask yourself the same question for PvE, and then ponder why instead of everyone playing the same 8 combos... people have this weird habit of picking and playing with what they want out of 100s of poweset combos to choose from.

Mediore setup vs Mediore setup match = as much competition and fun as an uber setup vs uber setup. It's likely it may not be as fun to some dependant on cookie cut builds and FoTM because it just may require a lot more thought and skill from some peeps who haven't used either in some time.

uber setup vs mediocre setup means the uber setup will win, but it also means it will be copied, pasted, and end up turning high end arena into a bunch of the same doing the same and... oh wait... I think arena has reached that point already. Given the fact that arena is the closet to Pre-I13 one can get... and given the fact that most organized matches will run with those settings... and given the fact that there is far far far less viable sets to succeed with there... bah. What I'm getting at will stir too many emotions so I'll leave it to you all to get the point I was about to make.

I think the only issue lies in your (and anyone elses) thinking you have the ability to know what is best for all. The best "power" for a job sure. The best slow or debuff power in a particular set.. sure speak on it, but assuming that one set/set combo is best regardless of the person behind the toon is a bad way to go about coaching. Such practice HAS created more bad players than good players since I13. As you say... don't shoot the messenger.


They took heal spamming away and it seems people forgot how to think.... The "Anti-Spiking" I refer to is no code but a practice of preventing your less able bodied teammates form getting spiked repeatedly. I mean.. it's definately what I practice when on support toons. I may be no outright and feared killer on my Dom, but I can make damn sure that blasters can't do their job either. Mac might downplay the effectiveness of -damage powers or -perception powers or AoE attacks when one toon is using it, but 3 or 4 of those powers coordianated has been shown to work time and time again.

We promote phase and hibernate because we gave up on the idea of defensive teaming (so to speak) Every toon MUST fend for themselves right? You're saying the Devs made us play this way?
I PvP. Meaning I fight against players not toons. My /SR gets stronger at lower HP so I built for it.... lower HP attracts PvPers to try and get a kill. I stand in NPC mobs.... My defense is too much for most of NPCs in zones and doing so builds fury fast while attracting players to try and get an easy kill. I aggro. I get players to group up and try to attack me... in the process, smart teammates use me to their advantage.

For anyone who agrees with this statement please keep in mind that the game has a design based on AT roles. Stepping away from these roles and complaining about sets being useless come across as absurd to me... and I can only imagine what it sounds like to the people that develop this game.... especially when they went through all the trouble to revamp PvP to emphasize this.

These roles are described on the character creation screen btw. Maybe it's time we all took a step back and started over with these thing in mind. If a damage spamming Blaster, scrapper , or stalkers s the role yo widsh to play, cool... but we should stop telling ourselves that these are the only roles out there. (generalized but you get my point)

The request was for both teams to follow a "No Dups" rule.


Hey I'm being quite humble here. I make no claims of being an avid arena PvPer. I currently have very few toons made for 10 min matches where killing for +1s are all that is required. I have plenty experience but I left it alone a long time ago. I was simply asking those who ARE to give it a go. If it's too much to ask there's no need to flame me for it.

Powers and the cahnges made are less important than the role those powers are used to fufill. I don't think is was the intention of the devs to have everyone who wants to PvP take a class on every single difference in PvE vs PvP powers. I think they maybe wanted a Tanker to be able to be a Tanker and perhaps have teammates to make up for their weaker damage and lack of ranged attacks... as an example.


Sorry that wasn't meant to be a totally factual statement. It's just what the current PvP reminds me of.

try to compare good and successful per AT as you would in PvE... you might find that one's abilty to get kill after kill while their teammates drop dead repeatedly is what makes for a pretty lousy toon or player. My apologies for speaking in general at the PvP playerbase as a whole. I recognize doing so can make people give me more bad rep. I only do it at times to emphasize my points. I'm aware that I am incapable of speaking for all or knowing what all is doing. (I wish more peeps here were aware of this as well)


I don't disagree, but to me it seems like you are saying that I13 made it tougher to be good as is, and reduced the "easy"toons (those that require the least to be good) down to just a few FoTM builds. This is all fine until it reaches the boards. I13 was traumatizing for some (dramatic I know) and so many turned here for advice... handing out FoTM to each and all was a poor decision IMO. It dumbed down PvP in this game, and it is evident each time I Zone.

If it's easier to kill now in arena... them that means it's harder to keep someone alive. In time I'm sure those who arena will learn to get better at this. Anti-Spiking is coming I'm sure... one day. until then though we'll continue to force Pvpers to take phase and Hib, right?



I play them quite often. I stand in the middle. I stand between the casual PvPer (PvE mostly with some PvP) and the Hardcore PvPer (PvE just to PvP)

I say this becasue I PvP almost 95% of the time I spend in game these days... but I don't PL my toons for it. This is not a biased stance but just a preference...to each thier own. I spend months leveling and IO'ing/prepping a toon for PvP. I pick builds based on what I niche to be in PvE and make damn sure theycan carry that role into PvP. I don't make toons for PvP.

I have a brute named Krakel... it doens't have taunt but it still can agrro and pull players as if they were npcs. DB/SR. Regardless of whether it is teamed or not, it is there stirring up aggro just to get the attention away from stalkers and doms and corrs... so they can fufill their roles. No. It's not a sucky toon nor does it gt farmed etc..

Any toon can work when that build is proven to fufill the role of the AT. It unfortunately is up to the players standing next to that toon to decide if they will recognoze and benefit. I'd encourage you to play your snowflake build and maximize whatever niche is has. Do that and do it well and you will attract people that will aprreciate that niche. At least it is what has happened for me.

I'm not sure what you're gtting at only because SC and RV are all bout the zone event regardless of how LOL and ignored is comes across to many PvPers... If you get several peeps to participate on both sides it can be extremely fun for all. NPCs scare some PvPers though so it's likely any other mini game added by the devs would be ridculed and ignored as well.

It isn't that hard to create such mini games without the devs though. I've witnessed and enjoyed many times where zone turned into teams battling over "Who runs the Tram" or "King of the (hill) AP building." These days though even Tankers are afraid to die in a zone... most nowadays just run away to base as fast as they can... and then brag about their skillfulness in doing so. They don't mak'em like they used to.

All the reseach can be done on what will get kills the fastest and get farmed the least in arena. It matters little when the only skill required there is to lock fire and phase when spiked. I am 100% certain that I could roll a Psy/EM blaster and do well in arena...

Test my theory though... take the best at arena and do a KB with just a simple rule of no duplicate set/set combinations per team. Good and knowledgable PvPers shouldn't have anything to worry about by doing this... would such a simple rule eliminate the competiveness? I don't think so. Tell me what adjustments would have to be made by the team leaders.

It's like we want PvP to require skill and then we only promote what requires the least. I don't believe people aren't trying new things everyday. I just believe that many are doing so in vain and end up with the same conclusion of uselessness when such has less to do with a build than we want to admit.

Nah no rage. I admit though getting lied on is irksome.

Wait.. wut?

True. DR turned away many players from PvPing with their support toons, but I cannot agree that any one of those roles has been reduced to uselessness. Again it is the combination of not just the best sets but the best powers from different sets required to achieve the results that I12 and before allowed just one toon to do on their own. It's tricky and should have been the focus of many of our community's "numbers" guys to focus on.
The devs can only alter the system-change the game. It's unfair to assume they are responsible for what we the players choose to play. We the players are responsible for adding diversity to PvP. For example: If Force Fielders weren't deemed useless for 9 months following I13... it's likely that Elec/Therms would have never reach FoTM status.
I think you are assuming that builds that could solo well before I13 and not so much after means that they loss viability... This actually reinforces my point that the purpose of I13 was to enhance the strenghts AND weaknesses of the ATs making them more dependable on others. This seems to be a deal breaker for many and that attitude was simply copied once several were able to break away from such design and continue on as they had prior to the changes.
Nah, we need to start over. The PvP community is broken, and no changes to come will convince anyone here to applaud PvP in this game as long as the current mentality of teaming, success, usefulness and uselessness in PvP remain the same as is was pre-I13.

TP Foe is a power pool pick... there is no conflict what so ever with having both. If pehaps you saw me stupidly flying around with TP Foe on a Grav/ that skipped wormhole... you'd have a point. That however is not the case so please get off this ridiculous point of wormhole being better than TP foe. Such a comparison is not applicable.

BTW how could Wormhole be better in all situations when it recharges like 10 times longer than TP foe? TP foe is better when the situation involves wormhole not being recharged. Don't forget to read my sig.

Jumpers Con... not flyers.... because they fall unlike flyers who don't when Wormhole'd.

I have a clue dude. Would you like to borrow it?

Just because simple minds can only think in terms of better/worse based on one situation doesn't mean those of use that like to use our brains have to.

Duh! Use both! You know because they do two differnt things, have different recharge times, different range, both take universal travel IOs.

TP foe is a prereq to Teleport... would you all say Recall friend is better than TP Foe from 300+ ft?

TP foe is up every few seconds.... and well nevermind. There is no point of me really being here.
Actually that was another case of you intentionally miswording my statements to convince your robots I give bad advice. I never use cage on a spike target, I used it once BEFORE the spike! I stated before that it worked so what is there to argue about?

Since you refuse to give credit where it is due for some reason... let me spell this approach out for you.

You know how hibernoob is pretty much a death sentence for someone when a team surrounds them... well caging can create that VERY SAME SCENARIO. Please don't pretend to be dense because I know you are not.

My Grav/ uses BOTH wormhole and TP foe. Yours relies on wormholing hovering targets in the sky for no reason whatsoever. Hey maybe if you took TP foe as well you'd be able to counter your own foolish tactics.

Oh and just a little fun fact but range bonuses affect the placement recticle of TP Foe as well as the TP range... mine is up to about 25ft, like a mini wormhole lol without the stun. I'm sure no one here will see any usefulness in that so I won't bother saying how much fun and useful this can be in the right situation.

Again. Such a tactic when most foes attempt to outrun your range is not a bad idea. When you've got 57% range bonus in PvP... and your TP foe sits at over 300ft. One can find a way to make it work.

TP foe on a jumper 200 ft above ground means that jumper can only hope to fall forward. This panic action I find when teamed allowes for teammates to simply turn around and concentrate fire. It works more often than it doesn't. Especially on a spiked target.

Furthermore. As mention my dom is a specialty build with extreme range. Kiting one to a small portion of HP and using TP foe from a great distance to get them in range for another 3-4 attacks is viable and has worked plety for me. Perhaps not always on tougher foes, but the mitigation itself can be enough to disorient many players.

Finally, TP Foe does not equal Wormhole. Considering the two to offer the identical effect is a sign of a very misinformed player... ie fing Robot.

Miconscience is the name. It plays the role of Dominator almost perfectly. I recieved about 6 tells that evening commending me on either my range, leadership, my build, or a GF. I find it odd that you seem so aware of what I was doing... I mean were you focused on only me... like the 8 or so others in the zone?

My Dom has one melee attack: Drain Psyche. Every other power sits at 140ft range or more (even my AoEs). I don't come down for any other reason other than to spam DP on a target and get them killed quickly. I got one IO drop and about 15 kills the other night while playing Miconscience. I died plenty, but mainly from spikes from more than 2 or 3 at a time. I'm guessing you were on your cookie cut Psy/EM blaster at the time: MKUltra, because I remember several times causing you to flee to base and/or killing you, causing you to Hibernoob, and/or getting you wrecked once I got a team together. I recall seeing you as a non-threat simply because you could only jump so high.


You assume that getting back to base equals some sort of skill in a zone. With SS/SJ that's pretty much all one can do when overwhelmed... while leaving a nice SS trail on the way mind you. You zone as if you're in arena and kills mean something which is fine. However you should not convince yourself that you are good because you know how to base hug.

Wow. Again you seem to have convinced yourself that you are skilled becasue your /Regen was able to evade me by hiding in base. I make no claims of being a killing machine when playing my Dom. I know my role and play it well. I don't make kills... I make them easy and I did just that... moreso once I gathered a few to team with me. As I do with most of my PvP toons.

I know for a fact I killed MKUltra more than a few time. I got MKUtra killed more times than that. I remeber because I was aiding in $Target calling. You speak of me and wish to report on my performance... but you fail to mention yours.... Mr. "I got a kill on Dahjee once with my "Psy/Em blaster" Be more of a robot, and don't forget to QQ and reroll when they mke a change to the proc, Cookie.

I make no claims of being able to withstand aggro from 4-6 players at one time. I'm actually flattered at such attention because it lets me know I doing my job. I don't brag or talk **** In-Game so no... there was little reason for one to call out that they were killed by me. I'm not a child so I haven't got that whole " copy/paste my kills in Bcast" method atttached to my ego. I'm sure one day you might grow up too. If I recall though... I entered the zone with heroes camping the villian base... very soon after however I was target number 1 and found myself in front of the hero base with many heroes leaving.



Wow. What a load of BS.

If you are not a fiction writer in RL, then I would encorage you to attempt to be so.

You should indeed step away from the cookie cutter and explore what else is possible in zone PvP. You clearly know very little other than what you've been told is best and seem somewhat afraid to be defeated in PvP. I don't want to call you a noob... but it seems you have it written all over you.

That's how. Please don't ask why.

I think there is way too much speculation in that statement to receive a clear message. I do agree that there should have been fixes by now, but I wouldn't say they are ruining the game. That's just me though.

Let's be real for a moment. The last time they dedicated time and effort to fix PvP we got I13... Who in the world would want to attempt to try again knowing how the PvP community responded the last time? I don't recall many voices that stood out claiming to understand why the changes were made and I think it's reasonable to assume that becasue no one did (loudly enough) that the devs might still be waiting for us to figure it out completely. After all many have been complaining ever since it was released.

If I gave you a screwdriver and you complained that it sucked as a hammer... and I wasn't allowed to actully tell you it's purpose... I wouldn't find a way to make it work better as a hammer no matter how many good suggestions you gave me to make it happen. Another bad analogy I know... but I personaly think it's close to what happened after I13.

The hamidon revamp I mentioned earlier is likely a better example.

Threatning to quit, cancel, or notiflying the person that you are 'also' recording the convo for quality purposes gets results indeed. Just griping and dishing rage on the button pusher doesn't do much though.

That job is already filled. lol j/k. I try though.

Clawsand Effect is making a very simple point. You don't cuss out the customer service rep on the other end of the phone sitting in front of a button that will fix your issue. You don't degrade and disrespect the food server that will be handling your food in a restaurant. You can.... but you shouldn't be suprised when things don't work out the way you wanted them too. The Devs are people too, and they control the game we pay money to play. There are smarter ways to get things changed that acting spoiled and bitter about not getting what we want NOW!!!

I can also see the point made by many disgruntled PvPers. However I have to admit. $15 bucks or not... if I were as unhappy as many of them seem to be or have been about I13... I would not continue to play or participate in PvP.

I can agree that long standing bug fixes should have worked their way up the lists of priorities for the Devs, but realistically I can see that it would be much better to combat ALL of them instead of one or two. Such would likely enrage the PvP community further, and to fix all would likely mean that the time allowed and required to do so would hinder progress of things that we all know is in the works.

I don't like or dislike the Devs. I do trust them to attempt to do what is best for all players in the game to the best of their ability. I can say that I don't feel the core of PvPers in this game share the same "Big Picture" as they do when speaking on changes needed or wanted for PvP.

It's pretty obvious to me that if you approve of PvP and/or I13 changes made... you will not be welcome here on the PvP boards. I'm almost certain that Castle is in this boat and I can understand completly why he and other Devs avoid coming here. People have been so hurt by I13 that no reason what so ever could convince them that I13 worked. The outcome is more important than the intention... which is fair to an extent, but such an outcome is NOT the fault of only the devs.

Revamp is just that. If PvEers went about fighting Hamidon the same way they did before they "revamped" it... It's likely the players would have called it a failure too. Think about it.

Indeed.

Going past giggles and into LOL land though... find yourself a couple 'chance for hold' procs and put them in both Posion Gas Trap and Acid Mortar. You may start to wonder why you need defense in the first place!