Dahjee

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I'm just gonna go ahead and say it: if the grounds for taking a power is highly situational it will not be taken by very many people.

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Really? Like Rez powers?

For someone who goes on and on about "not being the average player," you sure do seem to speak for them all quite often.

Snipes can be useful when used and/or slotted right, just like every other power in the game...

Besides, can you really call yourself a true dominator if you have the option for a snipe and never even once took it just to snipe your opponent at point blank range while they helplessly floated in the air.

They're worth taking if you find a way to use them often. All or mostly ranged Doms come to mind. I'm almost certain we'll see more of these builds with the I15 changes.

I know I've been very impressed with the attack chains of my all-ranged builds on Test so far...

Powers don't nullify KB.... Players do.

Even if powers did, -KB effects never last as long as the Immobile/Hold. Count 4 mississippi... then lift!

edit: Nevermind. I realize OP probably wasn't looking for advice... just a fix. My bad

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BTW...how does teleport work in the zones?

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Works fines as always. Still trumps SS/Sj'ers, web grenades and other -fly stuff. May be hard for some to adjust though... You have to count for 3 or 4 seconds to account for TS. I know I know... counting! its totally broken! PvP is too hardz to play now.

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2.Yes, and yes

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fixed.

Rousing up the playerbase before new and exciting stuff comes is nothing new.

1.Yes
2.Yes
3.Yes... btw theres a new expansion coming this year that allows heroes and villains to switch sides.. and new ATs and other stuff like that. PvP wise... I'm enticed!

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Where City of Heroes shined was that good teamwork and skill will stomp out anything. Having the game being based on skill and teamwork made it competative. Sure, there are going to be AT's that shined in either system, but if you were going around to have a casual night PvPing, you could bring any AT and still not suck, as long as you had the skill to play it.

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This ... stilll seems to be the case from my perspective. More so then before actually. I know PvP 2.0 has open the door to PvP for many of my alts that I wouldn't have dreamed of PvPing with months ago. The problem now isn't with the PvP system IMO, but those playing who only roll FoTM or high HP Offensive toons and ignore every other role a good team needs by using one excuse or the other.

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People didn't want to spend the small ammount of effort necessary to be decent at the old system and just screamed for change.

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Sounds familiar. It's kind like whats happning now

I disagree that the new PvP is like adding training wheels... it seems more like they took the training wheels off. Those who had invested time and influence/infamy to get super duper at PvP 1.0 were left once agin having to adapt to the changes in order to be as good as they were before... or not die as much like they did before.

There have been dozens and dozens of PvP changes that have affected me and my characters over the years, but none that I have ever thought were greater than my skill as a player... I just find a better way, just like everyone else I know. We've all done it and most players (including those that speak against PvP 2.0 here on the forums) will continue to do it. Its called adapting no?

All of this reminds me of ED when it came along... months of complaining and then BAM! IOs came and everyone was like... "oh! now I see why they did that!"

Am I the only one who thinks that the Devs see the game on a level we players don't... and that maybe changes made today are to better implement future changes to come? I mean there are a couple of seemingly intersting things to come right?

Change Happens: Some deal with it... some dwell on it. Seriously folks... lets just stop talking and go PvP.

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That's silly. Basic gameplay mechanics were not removed, but altered. *snip*

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You didn't answer my question. What do you think would happen if they made those changes to the PvE game?

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Hard for me to answer. I cannot see the need for such changes in PvE. A lot would happen I imagine... as always.


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Also, the mechanic of mez protection was removed.

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True indeed. It was and I stand corrected.

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No different than what went down when Enhancement Diversification came along. It was all for a reason yet much of the communuty cried for months even though it ws stated that ED was necessary to make future issues work.

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Except ED did exactly what it was intended to do. PvP 2.0 didn't. ED wasn't a fundamental change to the way the game worked. You had to shove some slots around to comply with it, it's not like it completely invalidated some characters and made others ridiculously overpowered.

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At the time. Yes, it was gamebreaking to many. It was the "End of CoX" to so many. I'm not comparing ED to PvP 2.0. I am comparing the reactions by many to ED... to the reactions by many to PvP 2.0. You want to say that this time the reaction is totally justified... I say that's what they said then too!

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The devs stated that these first rounds of PVP changes were mainly for arena. Which to me, means that future changes are on the way to help make zone pvp better as well. These things don't matter however to so many here it seems.

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Except when you look at some of the stuff that was changed you realize that either 1) it wasn't designed for arena, or 2) the people tasked with reworking PvP had no idea how it actually worked. They didn't want people running, so they added travel suppression. That isn't much of an issue in arena since you can't run anyways. They didn't want people dying because of TP foe, so they added a small intangible period after being TP'd. That isn't much of an issue in arena since it's too small to bother TPing and almost no one uses that as part of a team tactic.

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I can look at any major change made by the Devs and speculate the reasons why they were made. Call me silly, but I'd much rather just have fun playing the game and trust the Devs will do their part to make it as enjoyable as possible. You may however enjoy making assuptions to further your beliefs aboout what the Devs' intentions are. Also something that was done a heck of a lot when ED was introduced.



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What matters it seems, is making sure that anyone who DOESN'T agree that PvP sucks now is made to feel that they're completely foolish for thinking so.

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No, it's just the people who constantly praise PvP 2.0 either didn't play PvP 1.0 much or sucked at it, and have now been handed the training wheels to make them think they're good.

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Funny. I look at it more like PvP 2.0 is the Devs way of yanking the training wheels off of many who thought they were really good.

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It's sad that so much time is wasted on bickering and complaining about what WAS.... in a game where things are pretty much guaranteed to change often.

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What do you think would happen if these changes were implemented into the PvE game? What if mez protection was no more, what if you were constantly suppressed, what if your heals decayed, what if your buffs were mostly useless? Do you think people would stick around when the basic gameplay mechanics got pulled from underneath them and got replaced by something else which was, by almost all accounts, worse than what was before?

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That's silly. Basic gameplay mechanics were not removed, but altered. Adjustments follow as they always do. Complaints, speculation, alternate ideas, and feedback all follow as well. In the end as I said before, all we are left with is a choice to believe that the devs are working to make CoX PvP as enjoyable as possible or not. Many changes have been made to PvP. Each time something big happens there are those who spend their days adjusting to them to get better, and there are those who spend their time rushing to the boards at every chance to complain about something they cannot change. That to me is sad, I'm sorry.

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Anyway, the reactions to both my posts are indeed showing the baseless nature of te discontent of the PvP community regarding the new changes.

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No different than what went down when Enhancement Diversification came along. It was all for a reason yet much of the communuty cried for months even though it ws stated that ED was necessary to make future issues work.

The devs stated that these first rounds of PVP changes were mainly for arena. Which to me, means that future changes are on the way to help make zone pvp better as well. These things don't matter however to so many here it seems.

What matters it seems, is making sure that anyone who DOESN'T agree that PvP sucks now is made to feel that they're completely foolish for thinking so.

I've been PvPing since day one on this game. I was even teamed up right next to you for most part of last evening FromBelow (on my Corruptor). I've dealt with and adjusted to every change the game has thrown. This latest fix for PvP to me is just ANOTHER adjustment. Some can deal with it, some can't - I am pleased with the Devs attention to PVP and would also like to say thanks! It's sad that so much time is wasted on bickering and complaining about what WAS.... in a game where things are pretty much guaranteed to change often.

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A good way to look at it is not by thinking the secondary is devoted to damage, but numerous attacks. The more the better imo. Heh, the only AT in CoX that comes close to having as many damage deaing powers as doms are blasters I believe. These attacks are what lead to domination or "(as someone has phrased it) "Ultra Uber God-Mode"... and whether or not we like it, this "jeckyl and hyde" playstlye is built into the design of the dominator.

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Access to more powers does not automatically translate into more damage. Most AT's can do as much or more damage with anywhere from one to four attacks than most Doms could with access to their entire secondary. And they can survive long enough to do it from whatever their optimal range may be. The idea that the entire nine-power secondary exists solely for the purpose of building Domination is absurd. If that truly is its intended purpose, then they need to change the name from "Assault" and lower the end costs so we can hammer them out with reckless abandon.]

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I'm not saying more powers = more damage and I wouldn't say our secondary is soley for building Domination. I'm saying more powers = quicker domination, and I'd say our secondary would be too strong when doubled in damage... if the damage is already great. This is the point when many will say "change that!! I want better damage w/o Domination!!" and it's where I say that expecting such is calling for the design of that AT to be changed whch IMO, is not due to an AT flaw, but simply expectations not being met. I personally slot for end redux and rech in my secondary, and sacrafice damage (it comes back to me via Domination) so that my attack chain can be long and inexpensive... allowing me to get domination very very often.

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It's at this realization that leads me to think that the biggest problem people face when playing doms is not the dom itself, but the expectations some players place on them.

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I don't see anything wrong with expecting Doms to be desireable for teams, on par (or at least closer to it) with other AT's soloing, decent in PvP, not an unbearable grind to for half of the total levels (and especially low-level), and not useless if we do take the trouble to level them to 40. I don't see anything wrong with wanting my Dom to be effective outside of Domination.

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Many and most Doms are desirible on teams... I have never once heard a complaint about Doms. "In-Game" Only on the boards do I hear such things. As far as being on par, well thats an opinion that have to disagree with. I feel just fine with what my dom can do on teams and solo...If you happen to feel as though your dominator is ineffective outside of Domination, well you have every right too, but there is little reason to feel that way unless its simply based on what you've experienced with another AT.

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Every tweak to Doms (except the minor increase to melee attacks) has been centered around domination: reduced recharge, pvp booost to domination, the soon to be mez protection during domination...

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Which is why very little improvement has been seen. They've already turned us into veritable golden gods while running Domination, and most of us still aren't happy.

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Again, this is about expectations.

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One shouldn't be searching for more defense, or better damage, or longer mez durations, or shorter recharge and lower end costs... One shouldn't be looking to completely change what the AT is designed for. One should only be foucused and concerned with getting to DOMINATION asap. Once any dom player learns to actually get domination up consisitently 3-5 times a mission... like we should be and are fully capable of, then most, if not all other concerns will cease to exisit if ya ask me.

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If you don't have Domination running you do sad damage and can't hold bosses (until 18 at earliest, and then there's the slow recharge rate of your AoE hold to contend with). If you die, you lost Domination. If you use it consistently and then don't have it in a situation you need it (especially with the upcoming Mez crutch), you're boned. I guess I just have a hard time accepting a class that operates on the two extreme ends of the wavelength and is down more than up.]

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Sorry but this to me reflects the posibility that you just haven't figured out what to do with your inhernet, the use of Domination differs greatly among us Dom players and it seems that nothing is working for you.

You "can't hold bosses" until level 18? Why not?

"If you die, you lost Domination" You lose alot of things when you die. Try not to die.

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I personally don't think of doms as being "dependant" on domination. I think of them as being constantly driven and determined to reach it at all costs.

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So you don't particularly consider yourself "dependant" on oxygen so much as determined to breath at all costs?

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Bad analogy.... oxygen is always availible...
A better one would be money. and yes... I'd reply that I am not dependant on it, but you'd better belive I'm driven to get it on a daily basis.



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My trouble with Dominators is that they are too dependent on Domination and too lacklustre without it. Adding Mez resistance to Domination only makes this worse (though it does make the class stronger).

What Dominators need is an always on damage increase. Having an entire secondary devoted to damage, but which in fact does insignificant damage, is a waste. If we pay for this by losing our damage bonus in Domination, thats fine by me.

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I think the emphasis on DOMINATION and the tweaking it receives is the dev's way of letting us know what the design and intent of the AT is. None of them can flat out tell us how theyexpect or want us to playthe Dominator, but by buffing certain aspects of the AT they shine a little light on what mentality a player should have while playing. A good way to look at it is not by thinking the secondary is devoted to damage, but numerous attacks. The more the better imo. Heh, the only AT in CoX that comes close to having as many damage deaing powers as doms are blasters I believe. These attacks are what lead to domination or "(as someone has phrased it) "Ultra Uber God-Mode"... and whether or not we like it, this "jeckyl and hyde" playstlye is built into the design of the dominator.

It's at this realization that leads me to think that the biggest problem people face when playing doms is not the dom itself, but the expectations some players place on them.

Every tweak to Doms (except the minor increase to melee attacks) has been centered around domination: reduced recharge, pvp booost to domination, the soon to be mez protection during domination...

One shouldn't be searching for more defense, or better damage, or longer mez durations, or shorter recharge and lower end costs... One shouldn't be looking to completely change what the AT is designed for. One should only be foucused and concerned with getting to DOMINATION asap. Once any dom player learns to actually get domination up consisitently 3-5 times a mission... like we should be and are fully capable of, then most, if not all other concerns will cease to exisit if ya ask me.

I personally don't think of doms as being "dependant" on domination. I think of them as being constantly driven and determined to reach it at all costs.

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Dominators are not boss-killers

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My Dominator is a Boss-Killer....

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but still we've all run into situations where we needed, sometimes desperately, mobs to run away from something.

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No. Such situations are purely in your head, because the alternative would be to have them fearlocked like... drumroll... EVERY other fear power.

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That wouldn't be like every other FEAR power...
That would be like every other FEAR power... with the ability to have 2 - 3 of them up, placed anywhere you want, while you are also using other powers.... sounds just a tiny bit better.

If I wanted to lockdown every mob around me....I'd just use Flash.

Man o man... where to start...

Fisrt of all, I do not Love ST...but I do use it and i do see many uses for it... Scattering mobs does not imo make this a useless power. I admit i am a lil biased since Im one of the few who took tp foe and actually slotted it, but still we've all run into situations where we needed, sometimes desperately, mobs to run away from something. With the new change to ST, it seems many are looking ten times harder to spot the drawbacks of it than they are the opposite. Expectations are one thing, but to say a power is useless/ stupid/doesn't work/isnt good compared to...etc...simply because YOU can't or don't find a use for it seems plain silly.

I Reminisce.....

(Wow, I am taken back to level 18, when i searched these posts for any/every guide on pa, and in every one it stated how pa was most effective on single mobs... less effective in big grps... and we all know why of course) So lets see... now i have a power that will make higher lvl mobs spread out run a short distance and stop... and cower.... Hmmm seems like a good place for PA. -Arrest, move on to next Single cowering mob. Whether soloing or grouping, (im about 50/50) I've found several tactical uses for this power...Hmmm, think i may dedicate a post just for them...

Second, IMO... those who say ST wasnt too powerful after I3 are just bein humble, why else would ya want it back the way it was so badly

I know i felt powerful... I mean I know we pride ourselves on never bein targeted or hit, but it made it a lil to easy to do so....(you mean i dont have to keep flashin and blinding. no need to tab continously to see whos holds are wearing off. It'll be just like all the other fear powers, but I can place it 40 feet away from me! You mean I just keep casting this here spectral terror and they'll just stand there in a nice group and cower... oh wait, a tohit debuff too.. nice...ooo it starts off perma... cool)

I was one of the many, many people who intergrated ST into their build via a free respec, and yes, when they changed it right back I was disappointed and hurt, and mad... but eventually I gave the devs their due credit. I figured that there HAD to be uses for this power... and I can either find some, or I can spend the next few months not looking for any all the while saying it doesnt "work". I have ideas of how it could improve, sure, but I guess Id rather not be dependent upon those changes being implemanted in order for me to find a way to make it work effectively the way it is.