D0mbegone

Hey Starsman,

I didn't see if you said you'd be willing to make up a chart of a high recharge dom (ie perma dom rech, with hasten, and decent rech in each attack)?

I'd say: 80% global, hasten, and 60% in each attack (I know you just use it as one value, just breaking it down to show the rationale), but anywhere in that neighborhood would be awesome.

Really curious to see how a true perma dom stacks up to the new dom for all the sets under heavy IO builds. It should serve really well as a conversation piece for people worried about their current perma doms.

Just a yay or nay is cool by me. I'm not trying to rush you I just keep searching your name hoping for a new update, but if you don't have time then I can stop that!

lates.

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I think I'm definitely gonna re-roll plant/energy. Total Focus is just too sexy to pass up. Thunderstrike pales in comparison and the AoE barely matters.

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My feelings as well. If you roll /elec expecting any aoe you'll be disapointed. May as well just embrace the new /eng with great ranged damage and new TF is like thunderstrike+charged brawl.

I'd lament the loss of buildup a lot more if it did more than 68% dam buff, that's barely more than blaster aim heh.

/eng is the new hotness. Better options (compared to /elec) for IO builds including +rech and damage procs (/eng has always been the easiest to perma dom, and perma dom levels of recharge is still very desirable on new doms). Powerboost is pretty amazing too.

gonna be a lot of /eng doms running around though, which for some is a detractor.

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Sorry for the doom and gloom, but remember that the big single-target damage buffs for dominators were accompanied by a recalculation of their AoE damage according to Castle's area of effect formula. Which rather harshly penalizes powers that have any significant ground coverage.

So a bigger Zapp is fine, but not so great if it means we get the new Dominator version of Combustion along with it.

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agreed. I'll stay being aoe death on wheels and a st monster with my blaster thx.

doms can have all the st damage they want( considering they do pretty low aoe), they'll have no one to use it on when they team with my aoe blasters. They will be lucky to even see their name on the kill list heh.

The change to dom snipes just further supports that the intended changes are to make doms focus on solo performance.

Team doms open up with control. Snipe could one shot AV's and that wouldn't change for them

Snipes just have no place for dominators, the buff to them doesn't change that.

Now for blasters it is a great idea to make them more useful. However, they must be very attractive rather than just moderately attractive, which if given the dom treatment, is all they would be.

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Definitively, they would be doing more damage than any blaster in the game too.

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Meh I'll wager my fire/elec blaster against that any day of the week Though I won't lie fire is carrying a lot of that weight.

aim and bu both on a 28 second cycle, defiance running about 40% +dam and roughly the same base damage for the /elec attacks (had it not been nerfed) and powersink fulling unlimited endurance compared to dominations limited endurance refill.

Meh I wouldn't be losing any sleep if Castle left /elec doms unnerfed. I'd like them to have a taste of what being a damage god is like

I have no issues allowing some of the dom sets to be strictly for people interested in investing in their toon, of which /elec needs heaps of recharge (live numbers for recharge) to be amazing.

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The reason Elec "went down" (mind you, not by a lot) was because of some extremely high Damage Per Activation Time powers being reduced in damage/recharge. These powers will be up more often but also yield less damage per activation time. The net result is barely palpable after the base modifier increase, though.

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but it sure would be smoking had they not nerfed it.

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way wrong on the psi again.

elec, in zones, outperforms psi by a huge margin. psi only starts to compete against elec in sustained fights in the arena.

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Where are they getting all this psi resist? I know some sets have it, but a lot more have energy resists. Sonic has no psi resist, and neither does Thermal, and those are by far the most common resist buff sets. The only reason Elec outperforms Psi on Live is because Elec has huge burst damage while Psi has fast firing weak attacks. After the changes Psi will have far better burst damage than now, so as long as the target isn't Dark Armor or standing in a Shadow Fall or something I suspect Psi will do fine.

(Again, I'm talking in zones against soloists (except Dark Armor obviously) and non-optimized teams. A well balanced team will have defenses against all damage types, but if you are talking about organized team vs team PvP it's all about the buffs and debuffs anyway... the right mix of powers turns a tank into a squishy or a squishy into a tank.)

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Have you PvP'd at all since I13? Damage type doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. Squishies get a free 40% resistance to all types of damage just for entering a PvP environment, and their APP/PPP armors now have defense or resistance (depending on which armor they have) to everything. All that matters now is how much damage you can output, not what kind. Organized team PvP is no longer about the buffs and debuffs (free base resists and and diminishing returns have ensured that) but rather about 1) how quickly you can spam a target with damage until heals are no longer effective (if DR is on), or 2) how well you can time two AS's after the squishy has been KB'd (if DR is off).

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but at least the observer bots can fly faster nao!

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Ooh, with Mind/Nrg or Plant/Nrg you can encounter both of the uninformed PUG mantras -- "Confusion costs us xp" and "KB is ebil"!

[/ QUOTE ]The thing is now your damage is so good you really dont need confuse to make up the difference. Considering how much more damage we do that is overkill confuse damage would only applify that even more. We simply wont need it because we would have killed said critter anyways.

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I don't really agree with this statement. Doms are much to st oriented, they need to work hard to make sure seeds works ideally.

For mind's confuse, sure makes sense, but it still tends to be very efficient damage and now that it casts faster can still significantly impact overall defeat speeds.

I guess I actually disagree for both confuse powers.

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Ooh, with Mind/Nrg or Plant/Nrg you can encounter both of the uninformed PUG mantras -- "Confusion costs us xp" and "KB is ebil"!

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Never thought about it like that. but teams don't mind the ST KB it is when you scatter a whole mob that makes Tanks and Brutes get angrier.

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Oh I don't know, have you ever purposefully used st kb powers on the specific target that melee player(s) are targeting?

Seriously, watch a scrapper hit build up and then just before he starts attacking hammer the lt/boss across the room with powerpush, or tk thrust-like powers and I swear you can feel their anger right through the computer.

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By the way, even if the end cost has gone up for most of the attacks, the damage from Primary has not (ex: single hold and Lift). That's even more damage with no extra endurance cost.

I think may be some of you are killing faster now?

I used to see Katana users complain about endurance cost 'cause they hit so much faster after that buff. T_T Just try not to overkill things. I've seen Brutes use Knockout Blow on a target that only has 5% health left... now that is a waste of endurance.

Now it makes more sense to get sets and maybe perma-dom. I haven't decided on my first perma-dom yet.

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yes I think overkill is very much the case and/or using a dot st inefficient immob for damage.

The issue with having ALL of the assault powers designed for high dpa is that every attack means you are using KO blow to kill the minion with a sliver left (exageration, but hopefully you get what I mean).

At times it is nice to have a low cost attack to finish off survivors.

For a lot of doms now their cheapest option is a 6 end attack, which is higher than any other AT in the game.

Some known "end suckers" such as broadsword and iceblast even have a 5.2 end attack.

Even dom flares is 5.2 now!

He standardized lift, jeez what more could you want?

*more or less just bumping this, as I'd also like to know if he intends to look at making the primaries better, or at least more intuitive.

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None of these issues apply to SC, so like I said, if you are looking for an SC build I'd take a long look at /eng.


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I'm gonna see how I like my new mind/psy. If I really enjoy playing a dom, maybe I'll make another one....a earth/energy or something. I did very much consider /energy even before the changes, simply because it gets the strongest dom attack at sirens level.

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/psi should be a fine choice. It also has a full ranged attack chain and a massive kb attack (albeit melee rather than ranged), but as a mind you already have levitate.

couple good blaps in the set too for SC.

I've personally always found DP to be more suited to arena play rather than zone and really like PB for zone, but aside from that meh.

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I'm using 50% recharge.

Look at the far right, if you sum the percentages by the names and don't get 100%, then there do are gaps. (no I have not checked that rushing to a meeting.)

Still, using those powers Fire is keeping up almost tied with energy, gaps or no gaps.

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No i get that, but we all know gaps aren't fun.

Well not entirely true, I don't mind them sometimes if I have a nice power to fill it with (like a procced out char) to raise dps even more. But at the same time, I'm not liking the extreme recharge needed to flush out a full fire chain from range. That is a big barrier to entry imo.

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Actually Starsman would it be possible for you to do up one more chart demonstrating a heavily IO'd dom live vs test.

I'm thinking:
60% rech enhancement
70% hasten
80% global rech
210% rech, or 3.1 modifier.

Basically single stack perma dom with accompanied recharge levels vs that same build on test?

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Right now I'm assuming 50% recharge that can come from anywhere, be it slotting or set bonuses.

I can increase the number easily the question is to how much while expecting it to be realistic the used powers will be properly slotted for damage.

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The numbers I just gave are pretty easy to do for an IO build.

Not common, just interested in seeing how the charts line up for a more min/max approach.

No hurry if you feel like it great. If not I'll be doing it for my individual doms anyway.

thanks in advance.

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Woah dude. I was just asking a question, no need to nerdrage.

Ya, I tested the changes tonight a bit. Took my Earth/Fire against a +1 EB which went smoothly. Then rolled a Mind/Energy Dom and took him to level 5 running Burke's arc. Was a really fun experience.

I'll drop my feedback in the Main Thread once I get on Live to do the same missions for comparison.

Yep, so shut yo face.

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I wasn't nerdraging. I'd have to be upset to do that. Just don't call people out when you have done nothing yourself.

I'm glad you got around to testing and I'm glad you are enjoying it.

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I wasn't calling you out. I was asking if you tested the changes since you are such a vocal poster.

Try to be less defensive.

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It's generally better to just keep your mouth closed when you don't know what you are talking about. It's ok though, no harm done. You just got called out on it.

take care and happy testing.

Actually Starsman would it be possible for you to do up one more chart demonstrating a heavily IO'd dom live vs test.

I'm thinking:
60% rech enhancement
70% hasten
80% global rech
210% rech, or 3.1 modifier.

Basically single stack perma dom with accompanied recharge levels vs that same build on test?

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No doubt. I'd hesitate to quickly recommend fire for anyone looking for a ranged dom unless they plan a high recharge build. Whereas it was the ticket before. That said, high recharge fire looks very good.

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For what I see both energy and fire share similar recharge rates so both may need similar recharge levels to hit a gapless chain.

That being told, Fire is just slightly behind, Energy has a score of 2.07 and Fire 2.03. they are so close I'd call it almost a tie, only Energy has better mitigation built in and fire also gets to be nasty AoE.

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/eng has 4 st ranged attacks with rech of:
6,8,10 and 14

/fire has 3 st ranged attacks with rech of:
6,8, and 12

/eng needs much less recharge to form a full ranged attack chain than /fire thanks to an extra attack.

Actually looking at those numbers, I'm not even sure if a /fire can make a seamless chain under its own volition. Without actually looking at a chains it will be a very heavy IO build at any rate.

For fire I've got a chain that has:
Flare -224% rech
Blast -236% rech
Blaze -184% rech

Even it has a 0.66 sec gap (includes Arcanatime).
Flare>Blast>Flare>Blaze>gap>Flare&g t;Blast>Flare>Blaze
edit: used wrong base rech for flare, this is seamless, but still very high rech required. very.

That is extremely high recharge numbers needed. The kind usually found on a live perma dom

I'll have to look closer, but I'm almost afraid my /fire doms is actually going to LOSE damage of its live chain of:
blast>blaze>blast>flare>blast>blaze >blast>flare

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1. find dutchrad.
2. duel him in the arena. i think he's like the only half competent rad left in the game.
3. go duel anyone with scorpion shield well slotted. say power-trips plant/emp.
4. go duel a fort on anything other than an elec dom with build up.


in zones there's enough -def being thrown around that def is kind of a joke, but when you fight a toon that's prepared to make the best of his armors, a dom is gonna have massive issues.

better yet, go find a stormie that made a good +recovery build and was able to pick up rock armor (there must be one somewhere) or a storm corr with mace mastery... you'll see what i'm talking about.

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None of these issues apply to SC, so like I said, if you are looking for an SC build I'd take a long look at /eng.

The amount of def you tend to face at the SC level is low.

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So it does 4 less dmg but recharges 4 seconds quicker and costs 3.4 end less? That's nice, I like that.

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Indeed, but the live version benefits from domination +dam and buildup. The test version only has buildup to improve it.

And outside buffs of course.

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Build up offers a better benefit to the test version as the test version has more base damage to build up.

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sure, but still ends up at less damage than dom+bu on live.

a high rech /elec dom has imo lost a lot of what made them so awesome. All well, eliminate the peak and the valley for the set I suppose.

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amirite?

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dunno, but yurmomistight

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HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST WE TEAM!

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doms aren't meant to team. Just look at the way they are structured now

just kidding, but kinda serious.

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Take solace in the fact that 99% of PuGs and 54% of your VG won't want you on their team due to super-accurate KB. People don't get it, they don't want to and no amount of education on the matter will sway their walnut sized dinosaur brains. Such is our "burden".


I intend to roll a delicious Mind/Nrg in honor of both awesomness and Vid-Jeet-Tah, the patron saint of Mind/Nrg goodness.

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I'd just pair it with a primary that offers readily available -kb. Even solo I generally don't like high kb other than for lulz of nailing things off of buildings and what not.

/eng is the new fotm, no doubt.

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after issue15 does mind/psi still the best choice for pvp?

who already test it?

thnx!

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was it the best choice before i15?

qr

I'd take a long look at /eng, especially if SC is where you want to be.

By 30 it has, full ranged attack chain that includes a mag 16 kb. It has the most melee damage at that level. And I still really like powerboost.

At just a glance as it seems normalization is ftw with these changes:

iceblast should be 8 sec (6 now)
ice sword should be 10 sec (8 now)
ice slash should be 16+ (10 now)

That would give ice a lot more punch.