Cyberberus

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I wondered where those scars came from.

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TigerBaby: /em pulls the rocking chairs up close by the fire for the old-timers and settles by their feets

Tell me a story about the olden days? ::tiggerblink::

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Go HERE and see one way of looking at it (true IMO)

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With all due respect, that makes no sense at all. If we're such a minority compared to the casual player, why spend all this time and energy making changes that affect only 10% of the players? Especially seeing as how we DID NOT WANT these changes (nerfs). That's the problem... no one gained anything from the I5 nerfs. The casual players are largely unaffected and the rest of us are angry.

On the other hand, if they had chosen to spend their time to ADD MORE UNIQUE CONTENT, well then EVERYONE would benefit. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands, of posts to back up what I'm saying.

The nerf bat is an industry-wide problem nowadays. This just happens to be one extreme case out of many. Devs of ALL GAMES need to learn that the nerf bat is easy to swing, but all-but-impossible to stop swinging. This is because of the simple fact that - as with everything in life - it is far easier to destroy (eg; nerf) than it is to create (eg; add new content).

There are smarter ways to achieve "balance" in this game than to nerf the living bejesus out of everything. Making bad guys stronger was a start, but it was an unfinished idea. Not a bad idea, just an unfinished one.

I'll give you an example of what I'm talking about from another game... Desert Combat (the BF1942 mod). The problem was spawn-camping... killing people as they spawned into their bases, and therefore racking up a serious score. There were a gazillion posts on ideas of how to essentially "nerf" the game to keep people from spawn-camping. Everyone was arguing about these ideas for months.

I told them, if you want to stop spawn-camping, you need to take away people's DESIRE to do it... make it so that you don't get any points for killing someone who has just recently spawned in their base, say, using a 30-second timer. It was such a simple solution compared to all of the nerf-o-rama's that everyone else was suggesting, and it didn't negatively affect any other aspect of gameplay at all.

Without trying to sound like I'm patting myself on the back, heh, the devs need to learn to take this sort of logic and apply it to CoH. Forget the nerf... there are smarter ways to fix problems. Nerfing is a REactive solution. They need to think more PROactively.

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Bravo! Well written!

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Yup. I think we just need Havok/Thornkiller and the Confessor and then we could have it out I2 style.

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I tried being a peacemaker in those debates. What was I thinking?

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I wondered where those scars came from.

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i have a feeling that cov regen and coh regen will play really differently. i'm already formulating builds that would look simply assinine in CoH that may or may not be effective in CoV.

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Playing differently because they have different powersets is logical and OK.

Nerfing CoH regen to make sure its "balanced" with CoV regen would be not OK and illogical ... which of course increases its chances of happening.

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Actually, if you're the company, you want the CoV classes (sorry, archetypes) to be a little bit better than the CoH ones, in order to draw people to buy it. Not enough so people complain, but a little better, cooler, etc.

For example, they appear to have real pet classes. Presumably this will put them 1 up over Controllers.

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Hehe ... I said that long ago .... Villains will be better at launch to get people with CoH to buy it because "the villains have better powers/ATs" ... when CoV sales level out/decline look out .. the "balance vision" will once again rear its head and The Nerf-Bat of Doom™ will start swinging.

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1) if they reduce qr but not also all scrapper primary and secondary power endurance costs then they'll effectively be saying that they left part of their regen adjustments on the table in i5. at this point they'd have to come out with some good explanations and admit to error there i think.

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Why? they've nerfed, said things were fine then nerfed again, and again, and again, all with no explanation

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2) they'll be going against the spirit of the set to some extent. after all, they created the spirit of low downtime in regen. if it wasn't on purpose then it was one honking big accident.

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Against the spirit of the set? See: Moment of Glory, see: repeated nerfs to regen powers, see: -regen attacks that are waaaaay overpowered, see: reduced effectiveness of powers with no reduction of End cost, to name a few.

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5) there are much bigger balance fish to fry at this point than powers in regen. sr's effectiveness is still very much questionable, at least in our eyes. they have to address this fully. they are, slowly. in the midst of large balance issues like that, if they somehow justify a reduction in qr but don't at the same time make some of the other adjustments that we know they really do need to make to buff other secondaries then it'll at least make for a strange set of priorities.

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Regen has been nerfed over and over with lame "unparalleled", "no one should be able to solo an AV" and other excuses while other AT builds since I#2 and currently can still solo AVs and outperform scrappers as a whole and regen in particular ... yet its regen that still gets the bat, the "strange set of priorities" has been in place a long time.

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i have a feeling that cov regen and coh regen will play really differently. i'm already formulating builds that would look simply assinine in CoH that may or may not be effective in CoV.

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Playing differently because they have different powersets is logical and OK.

Nerfing CoH regen to make sure its "balanced" with CoV regen would be not OK and illogical ... which of course increases its chances of happening.

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Besides, if they do leave us alone here in COH land, they will just start in on regen over in COV.

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they already did. It doesn't have Quick Recovery.

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Thats a bad sign for us for I#6 pre-CoV/CoV-merge

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"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers


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Wow, do you actually have a copy of that book? Mine went where the woodbine twineth a long time ago....

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Hmmm .. methinks a little paraphrasing would make that fit CoH quite well.

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You'll probably jump on me with your ford focuses again for this one, but...

I don't think regen Is going to get nerfed. It's not overpowered, and for the first time in ages, no one's complaining about how vastly superior it is. Whether you want to admit it or not, most power changes come because of whiners, especially lately. Things like lower debt, containment, lower end DA, and vigilance are all because of whiners. And how many people do you know whining that DP in regen is overpowered? I would hastily assume none. Past that, how many people are whining that stamina is overpowered? Actually, a lot of people (cough cough THE ENTIRE DEFENDER FORUM cough) are complaining it's required for all builds.

I think we're going to see more end reduction before we see any change to stamina. As for DP... just stop talking about it, and the no one will notice how good it is!

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There was a very long post in the AT forum about how Scrapper DP should be eliminated. Do not underestimate the pettiness of nerf-herders. They're scruffy looking.

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I never underestimate nerf-herders ... especially since when it comes to seems they have a direct line to Statesmans nerf-bat jerk reflex

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You know I just want to reiterate, that Regens KICK BUTT!!

Why?

Regens are always out to help each other. I just read the pre-release of Fanboy's DP guide, and I note that any newbie Scrapper can get a hand here.

I've tried several times to get help on my Controller on their boards without success. Regens take all the nerfs and still make a kick butt character.

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/em agreed

That is one thing that is un-nerfable: the Scrapper and */regen generosity that makes this the first section of the boards I check everytime I log in. Maybe it's that we've seen the swing of the nerf bat so many times, or the nature of the type of player that chooses a scrapper over the other ATs, but it is here that I find a real sense of AT community, mutual respect, and -mostimportantA+#1!- sense of humour.

A toast! To the */regens - long may they glow goofy green!

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A good point ... its the very personality type that is drawn to scrappers that makes the community and the resilience to nerfs.

Those prone to scrapper-lock see the nerfs the same way they see Statesman ... errr ... a Boss mob ... a challenge to be overcome ...

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i dunno. if revive was auto, someone might like and take that.

hmm. make it cost 5 end to use instead.

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Bah ... making it instant + auto so you revive in the middle of the furball just to die again instantly sounds like something sick enough to appeal to Statesman

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and i did it with claws.

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Haven't you heard? In I6 they're changing the metal claws and subbing in rubber ones.

Something to do with the ESRB rating... thought claws were just too violent. They were gonna scrap them entirely... but Posi persuaded the devs to try it this way, see if it still worked.

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Narf!!!!!!

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Hey if they want to stop the whining then they need to conceed and finally put in a task force that will allow us to respec our toons to keep up with all the changes. Its that simple.
Idont care if its 40 missions requires a full team of 8 and the villains are all plus 4 and takes 2 days to finish. Risk vs. Reward!

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I care ... it shouldn't require 2 days and 40 missions of forced grouping with dev-gimped toons to allow us to fix what they broke.

And it doesn't even need to be a system wide respec, with their vaunted "data-mining" ability that gives them gawdlike insight into how we should play the game it should be a breeze to data mine the people who have the power they broke and assign them a respec.

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We’ll still be looking at issues as the arise. For instance, there are issues with Defense builds; we’re going to look at that problem more carefully (the Damage Resistance Inspirations are a step, but there's a little more to come).

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As a regen, the phrase "we're going to look at" fills me with a deep deep sense of dread.

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Thanks for all your great feedback!

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Great Feedback ... if there is anyone that doesn't think that there is a filter (real or rose glasses type) this should prove it.

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Having to re-edit because the previous version didn't spin things the way the devs want it.

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More like having to re-edit because the people she has to work with think the players are stupid. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if she posted #2 without checking back with Cryptic. The players seem to generally have a better grasp of the game than the Devs after all.

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<sarcasm mode ON>
No no no ... you don't understand .... players have *absolutely* no grasp of how the devs intend the game to be played ...
<sarcasm mode OFF>

See The MUD Wimping Guide for details.

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**edited yet again because they still were not happy with it - I will change the patch note page in the morning**

The Controller and Defender versions of Enervating Field debuff Resistance less than they did before Issue 5.


Dev Note:
This power has always been very strong and easy to use, despite its high endurance cost. With the overall decrease in the power of defensive buffs, this power had to be weakened or Radiation would be too strong compared to other Defender primaries and Controller secondaries.

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Now we should really pity cuppa

Having to re-edit because the previous version didn't spin things the way the devs want it.

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I'm guessing Statesman will make some kind of apologetic post within the next 24 hours ... with a further statement about how he's most happy with defenders as they stand. And yes, he even understands how certain sets are perceived as underperforming. But, rest assured, the devs have their eyes on the situation.



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As a regen since beta, if this happens ....

you should be frightened ...

very very frightened

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Why is it that the developers continuously tries to hoodwink its players with terms like "never intended" or "bug" or "left out" or "mistake"? When something is changed, pleased just come straight out, state the changes and give the reason why they were changed.

Now, with the lines: "This global change altered debuffs as well as buffs.", could you just tell us what are all the powers that were altered and not wait for players to slowly feel something is not quite right, then test and find out changes, and then even then, have developers deny it continously?

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Why? Its called "Spin"

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my main is very likely Scrappus Devastatus
a note needed about scrapperlock, it isn't always a sign that the scrapper can't work as a team... it is often a case of the scrapper wanting to contribute to a team.
even worse than having your target stolen from beneath you is watching it tumble down the hallway
neither scrappers nor tanks really likes playing fetch. there have been a few times that I have basically looked at the rest of the team and wanted to emote "now look what you did... you can go fetch it"
additionally, people forget one of the greatest powers a scrapper can have. Confront I think they call it now... if the scrapper can use it well to pull in single or small groups it can make missions much faster than the standard of charge, hope to survive, rest... with some teams, single pulls can keep me very busy and nobody really gets tired at all. too bad scrappers don't have that available without power pool until 12

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Yup we need a scrapper only /emote

<Hands on hips glaring at offender>

"Do I *look* like a dog? You threw it, you go get it"

<catlike grooming animation>

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Some of the players with the most passionate responses are also the ones who care the most about the game.

Being respectful to anyone is important, Devs included. I must say though, that over the past year it has seemed (I say 'seemed' not 'is') that the same level of respect is not always returned. And I don't mean that Devs are directly rude, but that they sometimes take what appears to be a condescending approach of You don't see the big picture, so you do not realize that what you are doing is not actually fun.

This ignores that some people spend almost as much time playing the game as a Dev spends working on it. It ignores that many players often are more current and aware of power changes(as a whole) than the Dev team sometimes appears to be. And it ignores the (I think) obvious problem of actually telling someone else that you know better than they do whether or not they are having fun.

There has also been much disillusionment over the Test server.

Folks spend hours and hours testing changes, give extensive feedback, and find widespread support of their findings, and then the changes go through to live as is. (Only to have the Devs find on Live the same issues that were reported by players on Test.)

There is much that goes into peoples behavior, and I think that the fluctuations in respect go both ways. It is just less subtle from the players side.

If we cared less about the game being great, we would just quit, not criticize.

I would like to end with a thank you to you Cuppa for still being an advocate for the community, even though we are so contentious. And one to the Dev team for making this game, which I have enjoyed greatly this past year+. You are obviouosly a talented team.

Now about SS&SJ...

-Gallant

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Great post

/em Second That!

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any updates ??

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Yeah .. they are currently in the process of nerfing fans .....

...event canceled

<---- Wild Scrapper(s)

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Where have all the Red names gone?

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They're all gone to the Americans!

Somebody had to do it.

Oh, and if you check out that nostalgia thread, there's a red name in there from pretty recently.

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Yeah, but remember the days when 10-15 dev posts in a day were considered normal?

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Would it be possible to do a

/power_lock

or some such to lock powers into positions. I tend to be a clicking fiend during some fights and have powers set in specific orders in my trays. I would like to be able to keep them in that order until i choose to change them insted of accidentally dragging and dropping them or switching them with another power during an intense combat.

Would that be difficult to add?

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Oh yass! Pretty Please with cookies on top?

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I think I'll name my son Zaphod Beeblebrox.

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Don't forget your towel