Culann

Hopefully you will not take offense at this..but the blue on blue is really bad. Perhaps change it to yellow or some other conflicting color so it's readable.

I have a Fire/Kin and so was curious but attempting to read this is so difficult I've just passed over it.

Heya folks...

By costumes..I mean is there a guide or list somewhere that tells you what arcs or other you need to accomplish ingame to acquire the various costume pieces?

I realize of course there's the various boosters, plus several wing sets and boot sets you can get as invention, and a smattering of things as veteran rewards as well. However I've read somewhere that you can acquire the costume parts for other things. As a example I've read you can acquire the Rularuu guns by either finishing a arc ingame or a TF or something. That is..your actions ingame produce the option to actually use the new costume part.

Is the a comprehensive and good list somewhere of what parts are out there and how each part may be acquired?

My thanks!

-C.H.S.

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Some people will drive around the parking lot for 10 minutes to save 2 minutes of walking. Never made sense to me.

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Just as a observation..it makes sense to me. Try going in someplace like Lowes to buy lumber and heavy items (refrigerators, stoves, etc) and then cart them all the way out to your truck and put them in.

Yeah..better to spend that 10 min finding a close spot so you don't have so far to haul the lumber or items before loading.

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Airman's way is the definitely fastest, and the TF can easily be done in under 15 minutes that way. But any team can do this in 30 mins. I've seen it with no defuffers, 7 melees + a defender, 4 tanks + 4 blasters, what have you. I'd rather just grab what's available and do it in 25 minutes, then spend 20 minutes putting together the "perfect" team. Do the math. As far as I'm concerned, time spent building the team counts too.

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I'd have to agree with this assessment..building a team is part of the time that's involved I'd think, as well.

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Well you're right about one thing for sure ... This is my first MMO. And ironically, I'm not a Comic Book fan either ...

I've been a gamer for years (I'm an old guy) ... But never liked the idea of paying to play (and still don't really). That's not to say I'm an online gaming newbie ... I played Blizzard's games from 1996 to 2004, so I'm very familiar with the development progression of games (ie. nerfs and changes). In my book, they are the BEST bang for the buck gaming company out there, buy it once and play it for a really long time (some of the most replayable and well balanced games I've ever seen) ... Well ... Until WoW that is (which I have very little interest in btw).

A friend of mine who was following the development of this game kind of ... Talked me into pre-ordering, based on the fact that I could play in late beta and get an idea for very little expense.

Obviously I liked what I saw.

I understand your concerns ... And actually appreciate the discussion (something all too rare on gaming forums). I also fully understand that statistics can be manipulated to show anything ... *coughtheeconomyisgreatcough* ... And I don't want to be forced into grouping (if I don't feel like it) either. And I don't "blindly" trust anyone (except for my wife - who btw isn't playing this game, but who games quite a lot), let alone a salesman (I didn't fall off the truck yesterday - I know all about business and have owned a few in my days - hence my assertion that Statesman has nothing to gain by lying).

But in reading this thread, and all of Statesman's comments in here (and in other threads recently), in combination with what I see in the game ... I had a different reaction than many folks seem to have had, to what he's trying to accomplish and the direction he wants the game to go. I think he's trying to make it a better game (from my perspective), not just doing what he wants to do.

Yeah ok ... I have an optimistic streak too.

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Old guy here too..no interest in comic books..most of my "Heroes" come from my imagination, or are melds of 3-4 different popular heroes...good example...mix Case from Neuromancer with Felix from Armor, with the Master Chief from Halo, and toss in a dash of Finn Mac Cool and Gaius Julius Caesar..and you would probably have Culann SunStorm..my primary..the 40 Blaster.

For Statesman, I agree..I think he's trying to make it all come together..I just don't think it's working as intended..sort of like when you're driving, you overcompensate trying to make it all come together, and wreck instead. Good intentions..the best..but it doesn't work out quite the way you intended.

And I will admit..of those fingers I can count on..my wife is #1, and well..I have 3 fingers and a thumb left.

Last thing...I think the primary difference between you and I is that perhaps I am jaded....too much time in MMORPGs where things -did- go wrong...and now I've sort of subconsciously taken the "Prepare for the worst" stance cause it's happened before...EQ and AO were tremendously educational in these respects.. (lmao)...

But yes..despite the fact many people probably THINK I'm a Troll..I am actually just very ornery, very passionate in my speech, and just a wee bit headstrong...I would be the one to shoot first, ask questions later, and the first question be, "Did I get 'em?" (grin)

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What I was saying with the Dev Tracker comment is that people are making blanket statements about what EVERYONE is doing. What's REALLY happening in the game. When in fact by the statistics, those claims are wrong.


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I agree..blanket statements are -usually- wrong..and I disregard statistics because they can prove or disprove anything. Any college professor will tell you this if you ask them point blank.

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Most people do missions. Most people do not make optimal experience making heros and grind level 1 to 50 in the shortest amount of time possible.


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I concur. My Blaster is pretty average...he came out well..but in comparison to what I have seen out there..he's still a average Energy/Energy Blaster, level 40.

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They are not concerned about finding the optimal villain type for their hero-planner, planned out UBER build (path of least resistance) and farm them till the experience could be better somewhere else. They are following the missions and story arcs that their contacts give them.


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Agreed..until such point occurs that those story arcs are impossible because the mobs in them are no longer killable by the player. When 2 even con mobs can overwhelm a Hero through chain mezzing, while the third proceeds to kill them..the story arc becomes miserable, and debt ridden. Check out the Malta group..2 even con Sappers and a Tac Op, if left unchecked or one of those Sappers not killed straight up in the opening of a fight...will proceed to kill a Hero. Not ALL Heroes..but many builds under various ATs. Sappers drain Endurance, and will eventually begin stunning you...2 Sappers draining endurance while you're being pummeled the Tac Op, leave you with A) no way to fight back even if you could, and B) Point A being moot since you're stunned anyway. Then there's the Carnies..but we won't even go there..I enjoy fighting Carnies..they are probably my favorite villain group..but there are some major bad issues there..one of which is Illusionists when held by a controller, still use Phase Shift, even cased in blocks of ice..that's bogus..and well..I guess I went there.

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I am part of that majority of players. I made an Ice/Energy Blaster as my first hero during pre-launch and have done nothing but missions with him. He's not UBER, and I've made, what you would probably call, tons of mistakes in power choices and slotting him. Imagine that ... A Blaster that can't take out 10 yellows in 2 seconds (heh ... I didn't even take Build Up till level 22). But I still play him and will continue to do so till he either reaches 50 or I decide to stop


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I'm a Energy/Energy Blaster..I can't take out 10 Yellows in 2 seconds unless I use Nova..and if I do commit to that..things are already at the "Okay I'm going to get debt here regardless, may as well go out with a bang stage.." I'm pretty much a normal player too..but I have had the foresight and experience from other places..EQ, E&B, AO, HZ, Neocron..to see when similiar decisions were put into place and the impact it had on the game overall..I see the same semblances occuring here, and I fear the inevitable will occur..all over again.

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playing CoH. My second hero is a Mind/Radiation Controller ... Again ... Nothing but missions. In all, since pre-launch, I've made 12 to 15 heros (sue me, I like messing with different combos and the hero builder) and have settled on 4 that I play most often. Of all those heros, I have never devoted more than little bits of time here and there street hunting (mostly to get the last bits of a level between missions), beyond arresting baddies on the way to and from contacts and missions ... Yeah ... I do that too.


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I have a full account of newbies...one in particular is a Ice/FF Controller..which cannot kill a trio of whites to save itself from defeat..Ice Control has pathetic damage potential, and FF has 0% damage potential. We are talking about little and none here. This is why Statesman's comment is incredibly false. A Ice/FF Controller (at least at the pre-30 stages) will end up running out of endurance before those three are killed, and
in turn, being killed themselves. And this is just one build, in one AT class. I have no idea how many others find themselves in similiar straits.

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That is what the majority of players are doing. Missions and playing for fun. Not grinding experience. When I level I feel accomplishment, but it's not the goal of my playing. The goal is fun.


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That's fine for you..in some cases I get involved in story arcs and get curious about how they end..the Omega Clearance Badge arc is a good example..the Revenant Project arc is another (Yes..rough stuff..PPs everywhere.. :P )

The question is tho'..is it fine for everyone? Some pepole may feel that levelling = fun to them..and when that is curbed, cut or diluted..their fun factor also suffers as a result. I like to put the levels on as much as I do the arcs..I have a 40 Blaster as I said..it's nice to see what the next power will do...or finding hey I can go in this hazard zone now..prolly can't kill ANYTHING in there but I can at least peek in and take a look. Bottom line is still tho...what is good for you, may not be for others..and the problem lies therein.

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I'm very happy about Issue 2. I took my Blaster to the test server to see the changes for myself, and was very pleased with the changes to mission rewards and my Tanker will surely like the endurance reductions. So far so good in my book.


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I have mixed blessings..it's the give with one hand, take with another approach..unfortunately it's not being done well even then because the taking away comes from specific areas, and what's given isn't given to those areas, it's given to everyone, making that loss from those areas all the more distinct.

Yes Update 2 has some incredibly good stuff..there is no arguing that..I agree. It also has some incredibly bad things coming as well..things which have again, killed what some people may perceive as fun to what they were volunteering to pay $15 a month to play.

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So statements like the one I used as an example (which was all I was doing there), are simply wrong. Unless of course, you'd like to assert that the Devs are lying when they say things like ... According to our data, The majority of players do missions and less than 1% of the players of CoH post on the forums.


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I know you think you heard what I said, but I'm not sure that what you heard is what I meant.

Gotcha.

It's not a matter of the Devs intentionally lying so much as reading the statistics ..these wildly variable indicators..incorrectly. I'll give you a example from that dreaded beast EQ so you can see the point of what I mean.

In EQ there were various tradeskills..one reserved for a class called Shamans..the tradeskill was Alchemy. However Alchemy, was fundamentally broken..it did not work. Players complained for months on end..literally..popular websites like the Shaman's Crucible expounded on the problems with it repeatedly, even having EQ community managers make visits.

Much later, Verant came forth and admitted that it WAS broken, after all. You see, Verant had been datamining, testing it inhouse, and not ingame, and therefore did not have a grasp on the reality of the situation. And it was their game.

Statesman and Co are no above this..it's not beyond it happening to them as well. Datamining is fallible..having a firm grasp on the reality of the game you wrote, is not always 100% guaranteed simply because you wrote it. Things can progress due to interreaction from other players that were never considered, never planned for. Statesman himself has said he's been in teams where tactics were displayed that he never ever considered would be done. This is a sign here, that it's entirely possible to lose that grip on the reality of the game.

Note that this is not a slam against Statesman, just a clinical observation of fact. Because you created something, does not mean you know everything about it, and how it reacts. Children are a good at this, if you want a humorous example.

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I happen to think Statesman would have nothing to gain, and everything to lose by lying to us, so I take his statements as facts. YMMV.


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Intentionally? No..I think he's trying very hard to make it all come together...him and the rest of Cryptic together. I simply feel that his perceptions of what are occuring, and the actual occurences themselves, are differing, and he is making changes on his perceptions rather than the actual ones occuring in the game.

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As for the rest of all the discussion about optimal experience per hour and the purple patch and all ... I kinda don't care as it really doesn't affect me.


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Me either..I just wanna know how I'm supposed to kill a purple AV that's also my level at 40, when it 1 shots the tanks and me using Psionic damage.

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Now I'll admit that I'm not too keen on a huge increase of villains that have status effects because I do solo a fair amount of the time too, but there are already many things I can't solo and I do have a regular group that plays together.


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This fits me to a T as well...there is quite a bit I can't..but alot of what seems to be proposed is to make that alot...a whole lot more than alot...which leads back to the forced grouping issue. And make no mistakes...my SG the Watch are a absolutely top notch group of people ...but even then you can only do so much...especially when things are stacked against you..almost blatantly so. Moreso..I like to wander about and duo with my wife who is a Emp/Rad Defender..she heals, I kill things, and we share the XP..it's symbiotic..but the way things are going...this is going to come to a end..which is terribly sad.

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Bottom line ... I've enjoyed most of the time I've spent playing CoH. Statesman and the Devs are responsible for my enjoyment of the game so far ... I trust them to keep it enjoyable for me in the future.


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There's very few on earth I completely trust..I think I can count them on one hand and have fingers and a thumb left over. I find it hard to put blind faith in someone when I see discrepancies as has already been indicated here and elsewhere. Trust to a extent is fine..blind trust is -almost- always fatal.

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If they don't ... Then I won't play. It's simple really. No complaining, no demanding changes, no whining, just a canceled subscription.

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Ditto..cept it will likely be 2..me and my wife have established a theme..wherever one of us goes, the other is nearby..always. So if one of us leaves, two will actually make the transition to another world somewhere..

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Great thread ... Fantastic Dev input and insight into the things to come and the motives behind them.

But I have to say either people just aren't getting it, or they aren't trying to get it.


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No..I get it all too well..the question is..do you? Let's continue and see...

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Does anyone actually use the Dev Tracker and read (comprehend) what they are saying ???

By this statement:

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...but here lately it's like you've completely lost touch with the reality of the game, and somehow channeled yourself into this narrow vision of what's going on..and well..your vision and reality don't match.

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I'd say the answer is no. Because if people used the Dev Tracker they would know that ..

1) The VAST majority of players play missions and don't hunt.
2) Less than 1% of the players post in the forums.

So who would have access to the "reality" of the game ??? People who post ??? Or people who have access to the datamining results on play statistics ... And since mission experience is getting upped, it seems to me that the Devs are adderssing the majority in Issue 2.


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By this logic you could say that any MMO manufacturer has the most sense of reality with their game..and it isn't so. It's not got to do with people who post on forums..and datamining isn't the be all end all way to determine a situation. Datamining is a statistical indication. And if you have paid attention in statistics class, you know statistics can be made to prove or disprove almost anything. Short form: Datamining has it's flaws, and is almost 100% certainly not infallible. Does anyone remember the Shamans and Alchemy from EQ? "Working as intended." Uhh..

Insofar as addressing mission XP....sure it's a give with one hand, take away with the other hand situation. Have you heard about the Oranbega missions with the portal section in them yet? Use your vaunted Dev Tracker and go check THAT out.

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From this thread alone there's enough information from Statesman, that if one were to put it all together, they'd see that the changes that will be coming after Issue 2 goes live, will address both difficulty and experience gain for grouping as well.

The answer isn't allowing groups of 8 to take out packs of +10 level Mobs (purple patch rollback, which everyone seems overly fixated on - for obvious reason), but in making +1 to +4 Mobs tougher and ... Wait for it ... MORE rewarding to groups.

This is completly consistant and logical with the game's mechanics.

If you are level 20 ... Could 8 level 10s take you down ??? Not in a million years (unless you were afk for about 30 minutes). Heck ... Could 8 level 16s take you down ???


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Being chain mezzed is not fun, not even vaguely pleasant. I'm assuming that you have never had this occur, so you're without concept of the situation. Also..to forestall the inevitable..it can happen in solo missions with white con or +1 mobs..rendering the Hero in debt. Now as I recall..with the exceptions of AVs or Bosses..a person was supposed to be able to enjoy CoH by logging on, doing a mission or two with what time they had free, then logging off as RL dictated. That scenario is either in the process of becoming no longer possible, or is well gone already. Ask EQ refugees how long they shouted for teams in Sebilis, or how long it took them to actually make any progression..in real time. If you compare the two you suddenly begin to see a uncanny resemblance..no longer can you hop in CoH, blast bad guys for a couple hours..and hop out. Now you have ot allocate more time..hop in..find a team, get to mission, kill that super hard boss or AV that's popped up..and then if you have any time left..try to recover some of the debt you may/may not have incurred while doing the aforementioned mission. This smacks GREATLY of going to Sebilis to try to work through a hell level on a regular evening.

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So why would you expect that 8 level 20s could take down ONE level 30 ??? Let alone a pack of them ...


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Statesman's a big comic book fan..I'd say the reason why, by his definition, is through teamwork..like the Avengers or X-Men or Fantastic Four display. Makes perfect sense to me. Now a group of 20s versus a group of 30s? No. A group of 20s against -1- 30? Fairly difficult, but yes. Fighting +1 mobs to level a character from 1-50 is a sure fire way to send the fun out the window.

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I'd say ... If a group of 8 heros can take out 1 +10 Mob, then a pack of 8 -10 mobs, should be able to take out 1 hero.

What ... You don't like that idea ??? Hmmm ... Wonder why.


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Because I pay $15 a month to play CoH. The mobs don't. Because MMOs are intrinsically made with the premise of winning. No one plays to lose, and no one sure as hell pays to play to lose. That's bedrock bottom common sense.

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Well ... Statesman has said it ... 1 Hero = 3 Minions (white con) ... I would think that means 1.5 lts (yellow con) ... Which would mean more or less 1 boss (orange con). Or there abouts ...


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Statesman may have said it, but that doesn't mean it's so. In fact I'm going to say 1 hero = 3 Minions is completely incorrect. And Statesman if you want proof and are reading this, I'll be glad to hop on Victory server, log in the character and prove it to you. More-over I'll give you names of other people with the same primary/secondary powerset, and let you chat up their experience with them. You want evidence? I can give you incontrovertable evidence to the contrary on that assumption. In fact the person who I'd recommend has said it point blank once, since he and his girlfriend play CoH. "She does ALL the killing..and I mean all of it..I can't kill _anything_ on my own..." You know..he's right. That AT and build does less damage than a equal level Tanker to a even con mob. In fact...3 of those Minions versus this build would be sure death. Bottom line? I can say I'm Bill Gates..but it doesn't mean it's so. Just cause a red-letter name says it, doesn't mean it's so either..regardless of whether it's Statesman or not.

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So 8 heros should be able to deal with a pack of 8 +3 minions (orange) pretty easy, add in a couple lts (red) to make a challenge, and a boss (purple) to make it pretty tough. Increase everything to a +4 and everything should scale up in difficulty.


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That's fine provided all powersets scale up in damage to compensate. Otherwise it's a ridiculous notion, I'm sorry.

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When you are level 2 out of Outbreak and you get that first mission in a warehouse in Atlas and have to run through a pack of level 6s to get there ... You go around don't you, because just 1 level 6 is more than you can handle at level 2 ... Why should that change at level 30 ???


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Flawed logic here. I'm going to explain why it's flawed so you can sort of see where your discrepancies are. At level 2...you have 2 powers..all of 2 powers to your name, outside the common shared pool (Brawl, Quick, etc). At level 30 you have a considerable powerbase, with abilities from your primary and secondary powersets, and power pools thrown in as well. Then there's undoubtedly wisdom gained longterm in how those powers work, what combinations to use them for the most effectiveness, and some planning in how they are slotted. The reason it's different is because at 30, you are now given the tools to adequately handle the situation, you have the experience in how to use those tools, and those tools are tuned to your individual style of utilization...whereas at 2 you simply were not.

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Now I'm assuming that your experience will increase proportional to the challenge (something Statesman hasn't specifically said yet), but if that's the case ... Then what does it matter if the purple is deep purple or light purple ... Purple is about undoable for a single hero. So how can a group of heros take an equal sized group of purples ???


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Through strong teamwork, utilization of --each-- character's full potential in their respective builds, and prebattle preparation.

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Well ... That's how I look at it.

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That's fine...I think your opinion is lacking severely in several areas, but you are nonetheless entitled to it. Likewise you are perfectly entitled to think the same about mine. I urge you tho'..to consider my rebuttal. Ask questions of people, EQ refugees..study the powersets in action...query people with various builds how hard it is to solo even cons..the truth is not in what is written here by the red-letter names so much as it is in what the average player you have never met who is one build or another will tell you about their experience.

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Currently, there are no spawns anywhere that are worth tackling with a 5+ person team. Unless you are herding, which looks to me like an exploit, even 4 people is a bit too many.


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The Trial Zones. These are designed for teams sizes 6 to 8 or so. Those spawns are HHHUUUGGGGEEEE - and challenging (at the low and mid levels). But many people don't take the challenge.

Again, I'm not sure what "penalty" is being allueded to.

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Why do people not take the challenge? If the respec trial is any indication that's coming, it's because the damn Trials are way too hard to be of interest.

Why soak a half level of debt for a SO that's got a lil twist on the regular SOs, and a badge, when you're going to have to go out afterwards and work your [censored] off to recoup that debt?

Yeah that's fun, sure.

Now I realize some people have done the respec trial and succeeded..and the sewer trial, for example..and succeeded.

Here's the question..take the population that's applicably able to participate in those trials, and split it between who's gone in and failed, and those who have gone in and succeeded.

More than likely..the disparity between the numbers is going to be like comparing the odds of winning the lottery in a crowded state.

Bottom lines States...you need to rethink the trials, you need to rethink this "It's too easy post 30 game" because what you are doing is channeling people into a EQ oriented approach...forced grouping, no killing anything your own level nearly without almost dying in the process. In EQ, for many professions..you couldn't solo a even con without death being imminient. Are you trying to perpetuate the same scenario in CoH?

I sincerely hope not. You have some great plans for future things..but here lately it's like you've completely lost touch with the reality of the game, and somehow channeled yourself into this narrow vision of what's going on..and well..your vision and reality don't match. Reality has precedence, so unless you choke reality...then you really do need to rethink alot of stuff...the respec trial, Oranbega portal missions..the 30+ game, heck even SG might need some reconsideration..cause yoiu surely have a vocal contingent you've made terribly unhappy due to your perceived need to 'fix' something.