Cobra_Man
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
The facts in this case have been laid out already by the party that made the decision. Specifically NC SOFT stated they decided to go in a different direction. They made no reference to declining sales from x point to x point(ie. since AE or ANY other feature was introduced) as a contributing factor in their decision. Attempts by OP and others to "blame" game features that they did not like is nothing more than axe grinding at best.
Z confirmed in the podcast that the target audience of the new secret project was the evolved hardcore gaming market a direction NC SOFT did not want go. There was no reference to declining sales or features driving people away as a contributing factor in NC SOFT's decision.
NC SOFT is going in the direction of big budget blockbusters that cast a wide net targeting as many gamers as possible and did not see specifically targeting the evolved hardcore gaming market as part of that wide net.
So NC SOFT decided not to continue to support the new projects direction and closed Paragon with COH being a casualty of the higher decision.
These are the established facts in this case and were well before this thread appeared. Of course anyone can continue to spout non-factual personal issues they had with the game, that will not change the facts one bit.
I would agree with much of your post.
The point I've been making is that the backlash to AE made it much easier to cancel CoH because I believe that it contributed greatly to the revenue drop.
Would NCsoft have canceled the game had it been drawing in $20,000,000 a year, rather than just (!) $10,000,000?
To be honest, I don't know (and we'll never know) but I'll say that it may have had a bearing on the decision to cancel.
As for this thread, it is indeed based on a personal issue I had with the game - but non factual?
I would point again to the chart I included in the thread.
Yes it could also reflect the launch of CO and the worldwide economic downturn, but my personal experience was that the AE backlash was the real culprit that caused to people leave. Neither CO or the cash economic downturn did anything whatsoever to change the game - AE most certainly did.
NCsoft delivered the final blow, but AE - or rather the misuse of AE - made the game a dead man walking.
That's all I'm saying. -
Quote:I'm not buying that.Originally Posted by Furio
I don't see how you got that conclusion from what he wrote. He's pretty much said the exact opposite.
Your intent/topic/position on any given issue is irrelevant to whether or not people see you as a troll, it's your behavior.....and things like an OP ignoring the on-topic posts in their thread and instead arguing about what constitutes a troll....that's kinda trollish behavior.
Here's a pretty standard definition of an internet troll, this one taken from wikipedia.
A troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response
I started this thread, and I've repeatedly stated that I believe what I wrote in the OP - and every subsequent post I've made.
I've assured Uber and others that it was not a troll thread.
Despite this they have derailed this thread by labeling me a troll (off topic messages) and have continued to throw about insults, which quite simply appear to me to be designed to provoke an emotional response from me.
Do you not think that ticks the boxes as trolling?
He doesn't agree with the subject of the thread - that's fine. I have no problem whatsoever with that.
To start trolling the thread is another matter altogether. -
Quote:I don't think you've grasped the idea of debating a topic on a forum.Originally Posted by UberGuy
You don't seem to understand something fundamental. People refer to you as a troll no matter what your intentions, if they perceive you to act like a troll. While I might have wondered, depending on where you went from the OP, I don't think you started this with the intent to troll. However, your behavior is trollish for the reasons I stated. You can act like a troll without trying to be one.
I don't need a hint. I don't need to be corrected. What you intended is largely irrelevant - if you impress on people behavior that makes them think of actual trolls, they'll call you a troll, or at least claim you're acting like one (which is not the same thing).
Maybe, just maybe, you should consider why people might think that other than just that they disagree with your OP thesis.
Or not.
From what you've said here, if anyone posts something that you don't personally agree with ... that makes them a troll?
Brilliant. -
Would have been awesome ....
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It almost has the look of a PvP zone....
Two hospitals, and a marked difference in overall appearance and 'feel' between different areas in the zone.
Perhaps the plan was to revamp and relaunch PvP? -
Quote:I didn't hate MA.Originally Posted by Ogi
In this sea of MA hate, I just want to say that Talos Vice is one of my favorite story arcs, canon included.
I was rather annoyed when the new over-aggressive name filter took it out of commission.
In the hands of those that genuinely used it as it was intended, it was excellent.
What I hated was the misuse of MA, and the crap that ensued because of that. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
It's a troll topic as well stated by others up thread. The fact that you are trying to turn this into some kind of personal thing because of being called on it I understand but it does not change the facts here.
The decisions made to close the game have been laid out by both NC SOFT and Paragon directly. Paragon was working on another project and NC SOFT decided to go in another direction leaving COH's closing as a by product of that higher decision. Nothing more nothing less and certainly not anything near the suggested thread topic.
Let's clear this up.
This is not a troll thread.
It contains my view of the ruinous impact that AE had on our game, and I've put that viewpoint across as plainly as I could.
The fact that several people disagree with it, doesn't make it a troll thread.
If that were the case, there wouldn't be a whole lot of point in discussing anything would there?
The recent, unpleasant trend in people troll bombing threads that they disagree with isn't unexpected given the circumstances, but it's a shame that these forums are getting dragged down in that manner.
I put my money where my mouth is regarding AE.
I said at the time AE was rolled out on these forums that it was going to be damaging to this game in the long run. If I could find those posts I would post them here, but I think they are long gone. -
Quote:Being a troll gives you that much satisfaction?Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Stating the obvious isn't difficult, yet still imbues me with the glow of satisfaction every time.
There are a myriad of ways to get your kicks, and you choose to troll on the CoH forums?
You have my deepest sympathy. -
Quote:That was my thoughts on the matter as well.Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Was the insult actually needed to state that they disagree with the thought? This is what I was talking about.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
They handled the Mission Architect rollout/fallout as poorly as humanly possible, but anyone who thinks that "killed the game" needs to dramatically re-think the life choices they made which allowed such an idiotic thought to take root in their mind.
Nice to see you're keeping up the troll theme.
Feel good about it? -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
I happen to disagree with the thesis of this thread, but that's not why I consider the OP trollish (and I do). I think he's trollish for his adherence to the claim that the AE single-handedly "killed" CoH despite significant evidence presented in the thread to the contrary.
I also think it's notable that some people who often vehemently disagree with one another on this forum collectively disagree with the OP.
Also, very few people responding in the thread have claimed the AE was in no way harmful, yet many of the OP's replies have tried to make it look like everyone who disagrees that it "killed CoH" is saying it was utterly harmless. Again, that sort of argument style, applied repeatedly and aggressively, feels "trollish".
I agree that some folks like to throw out the "troll" moniker any time anyone disagrees with them, and that it might have even happened in this thread. I think applying it in a blanket way to everyone who disagrees with the OP would actually qualify.
See, this is what I mean.
'Trollish' thrown in on the second line - despite what I've said just a few posts ago.
Here's a hint ....
This is not a troll thread. It never was - it's just turning into one because of posts like yours.
I've also said that I agree that other factors contributed to the sudden drop in revenue. If you take a look a few posts back, you might find it.
Here's a small part of it.....
'Yes there certainly were other factors that undoubtedly contributed to this game's sudden drop in revenue, but I believe that AE caused an ungodly amount of damage to the game that was simply unnecessary and unforeseen but sadly irreversible.'
If you don't agree with what I say, then that's fine. It's your point of view and you're entitled to it.
Just leave out the inane troll comments? -
Quote:Absolutely correct.Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Yea, those type of people seem to be out in full force lately.
It seems that many think:
Troll= Any topic/statement they disagree with whether or not they actually read it.
I started this thread because I was angry and frustrated over the news that my game was going down the tubes.
It was in no way, shape or form intended to be a troll thread by any stretch of the imagination, and it is annoying when people come along and drop little 'troll' comments - without thinking.
I've seen it in other threads, and it's not something that I thought I'd ever see here. -
Quote:'Axe grinding troll drivel'?Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
The drivel is all the stupid axe grinding disguised as speculation when the devs and NC SOFT already said the project they were working on was not in the same direction as NC SOFT wanted to go. Anything other than that is the same axe grinding troll drivel that was posted here before the announcement .
The only person trolling here is you. No one else is saying anything that even comes close to it.
Just because you don't like the topic of a thread, doesn't automatically make it a troll thread.
You're coming across here as if you really haven't read the thread - or you've just skimmed over it.
Do yourself a favor and actually read it - or go and troll some other thread elsewhere. -
Quote:Still beats the hell out of the drivel that you've been posting here......Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
And you adding loads of insight to every discussion....
I can assume by your posts that you've not actually bothered to read the content of this thread .
If you had, you would have seen arguments for and against the thread title.
What you would not have seen was anyone trolling, or looking to do anything of the sort. -
Quote:100% correct.Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Problem is you weren't right. MANY factors contributed to a decline in subs.... but only one thing killed CoH - NCSoft. AE went live in April of 2009...So no AE did not KILL CoH. There are MANY factors why sub #'s shrink...why profit shrinks... to try and state that AE was even a minor part of it is laughable at best.
There is more of an argument in stating that Incarnates "Doomed" CoH than AE...and no I do not believe that to be true either. While I would LOVE for CoH to continue it did have a great 8.5 year run...to forget that is to diminish the hard work put in by every dev who has been a part of this game.
Did SOME people dislike AE... I am sure they did. Did SOME people quit over AE...NO ONE will ever know. Sure you can say "Well I played with So and So and they said they quit because of AE (Stupid excuse btw)," But maybe they were too proud to admit financial hardship at the time and AE made a great scapegoat to keep one's pride intact.
People quit games for a multitude of reasons: loss of job, increase in bills, boredom, family issues (deaths/births/marriage), change of career, etc etc... Your little graph does not state WHY people quit when they did...it simply ASSUMES.... and you know what they say about people who assume
And for every person you say quit because of AE... I can just as easily state... I know X amount of people who came to CoH because of AE. The TRUTH is no one will ever know why subs shrink...but you go right ahead and ASSUME it was AE instead of a plethora of other things it could have been
This is a forum. I'm posting my assumptions and beliefs - not anyone else's.
I believe that the introduction of AE and the subsequent ramifications caused a backlash and a player loss/revenue drop that effectively torpedoed this game below the waterline.
Yes there certainly were other factors that undoubtedly contributed to this game's sudden drop in revenue, but I believe that AE caused an ungodly amount of damage to the game that was simply unnecessary and unforeseen but sadly irreversible.
It's my belief only, and whilst I fully understand and respect that others might not share that belief - it doesn't make me wrong. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Schismatrix
Your evidence mostly seems to be as convincing as the evidence that hemlines control the stock market while ignoring all the other factors out there affecting hemlines and markets both. You might as well pick some celebrity who died the same year the international financial crisis started and claim their death caused it. Did MA also cause the similar declines seen in many other MMOs at the time?
Why don't you try and read the thread first - then attempt to throw in some lame comparisons.... -
Quote:So I'm a troll for posting something that I firmly believe in and have given reasons for my belief - and have provided figures to evidence why I think I'm right?Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Yes, the trolls and other miscreants have been set free in this forum.
I also said at the time AE was released that It was potentially dangerous to the longevity of this game - for the very reasons that are contained in my posts in this thread.
If you think I enjoy being right about that, then think again....... -
I share your pain about CoX, to be fair CO and DCUO are also real Super Hero MMO's.
The problem is that it's just that they aren't as good as CoX in many vital respects, although they may be superior in others. -
Quote:AE is of no value to the game as it stands, and will be of the same value to any future emulation.Originally Posted by Xzero45
I thought about writing something showing just how much stupidity you managed to cram into those two sentences, but I'm pretty sure you'd just completely ignore it. So I'll just drop this here, instead.
AE was an idealistic concept, that just failed to deliver. -
Quote:Redside was indeed better in many ways, but unfortunately it split the player base. It was probably more of an issue on the lower population servers, but it certainly didn't do the game any good.Originally Posted by Mad Grim
I've always found redside to be in every way better than blue. Better content, better zones, better ATs before they got merged.
I'd liked to have seen the RI as a place we could go to, but only under certain conditions. -
Quote:Agreed.Originally Posted by FloatingFatMan
The RP community on Union has already been decimated, and lack of any actual news is making it worse as time passes.
Numbers on Defiant are at the silly stage now..... -
Quote:Time and patience are the 2 things that this game is fast running out of ......Originally Posted by MishiiLove
I sorry but this is one rare time I going to having to not share. I can only promising there is progress and there reason why Tony and affiliations are very quiet at moment. It not because nothing being done, I giving you full honesty but at of time nothing is able be discussed as asked not to being. Official Announcement coming soon I sure of it but patience is virtue at moment.
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What won't I miss?
The 'new' Atlas Park.
The 'new' Hollows.
Having to do the same itrials ad nauseum.
The Rogue Isles: There should never have been a facility to play a villain redside. It simply split the player base.
The same shape and tile set of indoor missions - and outdoor for that matter: A random generator for missions would have been great. -
Quote:Originally Posted by MishiiLove
Everything very time sensitive right now. Please understanding process is fragile and one wrong saying one slip of tongue one problematic scenario could ruin everything being work on.
Please just waiting for October 12th. I know it seeming of eternity but it not this bad, that all I able saying.
The game is losing players to other MMO's as the days pass towards the scheduled oblivion.
If there was information to stem the numbers we're losing, then now would be a great time to impart that information to others.
But ... that isn't going to happen is it? -
Quote:That's unfortunate.Originally Posted by Schismatrix
My older characters almost always started in Galaxy City. Somehow the Echo just isn't the same.
I have to say that I questioned the wisdom of using Galaxy City as the new tutorial at the time, and to be honest I still do.
It was a great zone, and it was a shame to essentially ruin it in the way they did.