Cipher

Some of my hot-button issues:

Nerva. There's just too much of it. Can't we have some continental drift to pull the islands a bit closer together?

"I don't feel villainous." It's the same old complaint I've had since CoV beta. Most of the story arcs have me acting as the muscle in someone else's story. Very few of the arcs have anything to do with my character -- I know it's tough to do because of the nature of MMOs, in that every person has to be the star. Naylor's arc "Automatic Villainy" is a good example of how to work around this issue.

Corollary to the above: Content that's just flat-out wrong. St. Martial is the worst example, for my money. The arcs have you actually collecting debts for a casino. Really? That's what we get? And Hardcase, who is without a doubt my least favorite contact villainside. He has one mission that's even passably villainous (luring the Wailers into Paragon). Everything else is save this, rescue that. I consider Hardcase entirely misplaced in CoV.

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Villains should get this one.

Now if I can figure out Image Ready, I'll make a stab at an animated one.

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I was thinking of a pseudo-cat macro along the lines of:

IM IN UR ISLES
FOILIN UR SCHEMES

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How long until Blue Steel breaks something out of a thread?

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Seriously, I'm getting tired of him foiling my schemes. The next time I put someone in an overly elaborate deathtrap, I expect them to stay there, thank you very much.

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Sister Flame, Hero 2 and BabyMage, COH:The Next Generation?

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It actually does raise the possibility -- and expanding on Sister Flame's question about the marriage -- (to me) of possible Ourobors content. A short hop twenty, twenty-five years into the future -- see what the next generation of heroes and villains have to offer us.

Does Ms. Liberty have a son (M. Liberty)? Has Positron found someone to bear him twins (Quark and Lepton) (and does he make them run his task force because "it builds character")?

I mean, twenty-five years into the future, a lot could happen. By then, people who've started Quarterfield might even be nearing the halfway point!

OMG, I can't believe I forgot one of my favorites, so thank you for reminding me!

I am the Pumpkin King!

I am the Pirate King! And it is, it is a glorious thing to be a Pirate King.

A wand'ring minstrel I -- a thing of shreds and patches.

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*sings* I am Miles Gloriosus!

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+1 to you.

And to add on another of my own:

We're the Warner Brothers!

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I am Robert Denby

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Stop being so elusive!

I am not a number! I am a free man!

Someone summon up the "standard no-mixing PvE and PvP response" please. Pax, is that one of yours?

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Reason being they don't have the answers. So how can they reply?

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I don't even want answers so much as I'd like to know their thoughts on the issue. Do they see a problem? In their estimation, have PPPs worked out the way they'd intended? Is it something they feel is fine, or something they'd like to change? Do they believe the powers are more powerful, or was that... pre-release excitement speaking?

Basically, I'd just some communication on the issue, so those of us who dislike the PPPs, for whatever reason, can start some kind of dialogue on the issue.

If their opinion is, "They're fine, we like them as-is," then that lets the players know, "Okay, don't hope for a change, but try to rustle up some data showing that they (at least) need a buff." If their opinion is "We're looking at revising the system," then that gives us some cause for hope.

I think I've said this in other threads, but one thing I really, really like about this game is the level of interaction we have with the developers. It's much better than WoW's (or SWG, back when I played that) go-between system ("I'll bring it to their attention and maybe you'll get a patch in six months") or FFXI's... no-between system ("we don't care, we're going to leave it this way, now be quiet").

The continued silence on the PPPs just... I just think our devs are better than that. It disappoints me, I guess. If I saw a response that said, "Look, we think we made a mistake with setting PPPs up this way, but we're going to try to fix it," I would be ecstatic. My response wouldn't be "I told you so, you suck," my response would be, "Great! Thank you! How can I help?"

The silence is just... disheartening.

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Spelunker is the one that I was thinking about. Three contacts magic origin. Since I'm a Techie, I have always missed them.

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You don't have to be Magic to get the mission. I've done it on any number of Tech characters.

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Then to the Florida testing group to count the errors.

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Well played!

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Once the internal focus group of Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster finish with it, I'm sure we'll see it.

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They sent the code off to Jimmy Hoffa for testing.

(QR)

I guess I see a composite of different issues going on here.

1. I don't really see parity between the two games right now.

1a. I don't think PPPs compete with APPs mechanics-wise, and the limitations placed on PPPs are unduly burdensome.

1b. I don't think CoV has quite as much content as CoH, but what it does have is generally better. I like the villain arcs more than the hero arcs -- I think they're better written, have more interesting set pieces, and don't suffer from the constant "travel 3 zones and talk to a guy, then come back to me" problem. (The hero game since Striga has improved on the travel issue, and I think the Faultline arc, in particular, is what I'd enjoy have CoH-wide.) More relevant to this point, though, is that villain-side suffers from a lack of content in certain level ranges, although some of the new features work at filling in this gap.

1c. CoV's content undermines its gameplay, for my purposes. I'd love to play a stalker more, but the negative stealth (and the sheer volume of escort missions) makes me question the point of it. Similarly, I like dominators, but CoV has a lot of purple triangles. I prefer soloing (and frequently play at odd hours), so the number of fake-AVs becomes an obstacle, as I see it.

2. Issue 7 and Issue 8 pretty much cancel each other out in my book. They were both aimed at evening out the differences between red and blue. And both of them have been invoked as "proof" that one side or the other is dying. I really don't think they stand as evidence that a given side is the unloved child.

3. 9, 10, 11 all strike me as shared content. I don't (at all) see where "it was for heroes, but villains get to tag along) originates. That just seems... absurd. RWZ? Yeah, my villains can get behind it -- they'd like to have a world left to conquer. If helping out heroes to preserve a shot at victory is good enough for Requiem (Ubelmann the Unknown), it's good enough for me.

On point, I think there's still a gap between CoH and CoV, and I think each one lags a little behind the other on key points. If I had to pick, I'd probably say CoV holds the slightly shorter straw, but I don't think it's quite as bad as many people make it out to be. And I don't think 9, 10, and 11 have widened that gap. I'd like to see some more villain-only content aimed at evening things out, but I don't think villain-only issues are the solution.

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Just wondering. Seems alot of attention villains need, just is a no go. COH gets alot more attention. This goes for pve and pvp. Will 2008 actually bring some attention?

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Behest of the Forum Illuminati. Issue 7 was just to get your hopes up, making the inevitable dashing of them that much more painful.

Is it working? Have we shattered your will to live yet?

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It occurs to me, fellow BSPPers, that mayhaps they don't need to be Pools. Maybe they can just be four or five traits that you pick as you reach levels 10,20,30, 40... not restricted by a specific group, ya know?

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That's sort of what I'm leaning towards, as I think about it. That way, you can exercise a greater degree of customization as to who your character was.

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Cipher, your idea of boosted odds of receiving certain Inspirations is decent in theory, but it falls apart in my mental playtest. How long before the min/maxing? Blasters only getting enrage and accuracy, Masterminds only taking heals and discarding the relatively useless Insights?

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Yeah, I didn't think it would entirely pan out as the solution to all our woes. I was mostly trying to think of something that would generate a new jumping-off point for the conversation on what backstory pools could do. I'm totally open to discarding it.

I agree, absolutely, that I'd like to avoid min/maxing. We pretty much have enough of that already in the game, so I'd like to think of something that could be useful, but in more of a "flavor" way.

I wonder if there's a way to boost things that we don't normally look at boosting, as a way to provide minor bonuses without pushing things into that "overpowering" category. Let me just launch straight into an example, rather than dancing around it.

(Very rough example): Strategist -- Maybe you've spent hours studying The Art of War or maybe you just have an intuitive feel for combat. Either way, your keen eye makes it easier for you to discern patterns in your enemies' combat. (You have a slightly increased chance to receive Insight-family inspirations. This power is always on.)

Lone Wolf could allow for an increased chance of Enrage inspirations when solo (since you're alone, you can go all-out, without having to worry about teammates getting in the way).

Or

Technologically Adept (or Inventor or Gadgeteer or whatever): Machines just make sense to you. Even if you don't fully grasp the inner workings of a given device, you can still coax it into doing what you want. (You have a slightly increased chance to receive technology-origin enhancements.)

Now, I don't know if that's even possible to code. I'm just trying to give a sort of impression of what's in my head, for ways we can improve a character (through backstory) without creating too much potential for abuse.

I think of the PC game Fallout as a potential model, as it had a system of Traits and Perks that allowed for character customization. I suppose any of the recent d20 stuff is another model, with Feats.

Edit:

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Say, choose the power, and then choose a BBPS?

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That's what I'm thinking. In almost every instance, a backstory pool would have to offer an enormous bonus to make me want to pick it instead of a conventional power. Like, enough of a bonus that it would be obviously overpowered and broken.

So what if it's essentially an "extra" power at set levels? Even something you can opt into, like the patron pools, and ignore if you're not interested.

Perhaps a "backstory" contact who sends you on a mission relevant to the backstory -- one to "earn" the power. One mission to test out the power -- you play through this second mission with the power active, and if you like it, you go on to mission 3, if you don't like it, you can wipe it out and pick a new one. And then the third mission, after which, the backstory becomes "locked" in place.

Of course, Ouroboros allows the possibility for retconning characters, allowing us our own personal Crisis of Infinite Cities.

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Doesn't seem very possible to be THAT all ecompassing.

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Well, that's why I'm suggesting that instead of having a flashback to "when I became a lone wolf," you have a mission that's structured to appeal or be relevant to a lone wolf.

I don't know, maybe for whatever reason you can't do the mission in a team, and for Tactician, it would be a mission with a simultaneous glowie-click.

So you're still free to establish what a background as a lone wolf encompasses, but to get the badge, you play through a mission (or mini-arc) that makes it relevant.

I don't know if I'm entirely nuts about every bonus having a drawback. As it stands in the game, the only "drawback" of picking a power or a pool is the cost of opportunity -- that you can't take something else instead. I mean, there are powers that boost one thing and lower another (Unyielding springs immediately to mind, and I suppose, on some level, pretty much any toggle boosts whatever it boosts and lowers recovery), but nothing simply for having the power in your arsenal. All the passive stuff is a straight bonus. It just seems like an unsavory precedent to introduce, and serves as a reason to keep people out of backstory pools. Especially people who aren't CoH savy, and might not understand the difference between Defense and Resistance, for example.

I worry, though, that it would run into people who dislike the "forced characterization."

Say you pick Background: Law Enforcement, and you go into a little relevant flashback. Then someone's going to protest, "but my character was Law Enforcement type X, and your arc assumes I'm type Y!"

You know, where X is... SWAT team, or undercover detective, or... like, chalk outline guy. And Y is patrol officer.

I understand that concern (personally, I just feel free to disregard it, but I've gathered that some people have trouble with that).

But if it weren't done through a flashback, it might work. "Say, Hero, you used to be in law enforcement, right? I've got a mission that would be perfect for you!" And then you go and rescue some police or something police-themed. If you used to be a burglar, you get sent to... beat up some Hellions and recover something they stole.

That avoids writing someone's backstory for them, but allows that backstory to have a role in gameplay.

It could even work as a badge mission. You tell your starter contact what your background was, and they run you through a mission or two on that background, and then you earn Background: Law Enforcement as a badge and whatever perk comes with it.

"Ear to the Ground" could be something akin to:

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Maybe you used to be a cop, or you ran with a gang back in the old neighborhood. Whatever it was, you've got a working knowledge of the criminal underworld. You wrap up interrogations X% sooner.

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It could also have a name like Contacts: Underworld, or something similar. It doesn't necessarily stipulate HOW you got this knowledge, just that you have it, and then the individual player is free to weave it into their background.

It would be equally feasible to work this into an "alter ego"/"past life" template, which would be closer to the pool suggestion I think you're advocating. As an example:

White Collar Criminal: In your past, you were convicted of a "white collar" crime. This has endowed you with certain advantages.

1. Covering Your Tracks (earned automatically at level X). The most important rule of the game? Don't get caught with your hand in the cookie jar! Your resourcefulness at concealing your acts means that ambushes are less likely to head right for you. "Glowies" that spawn ambushes have a chance for the ambush not to spawn at all.

2. Ear to the Ground (level Y). You know a guy who knows a guy... Your familiarity with the criminal underground means you need to spend less time interrogating people.

3. Ditch the Loot (Level Z). Sometimes you need to get rid of the goods in a hurry and while you'll take a little hit on the percentage, your fence will still take care of you. When selling enhancements back to a store that doesn't carry that type of enhancement (say, selling a Tech SO to a mutant store), you earn X% more than you would otherwise.

And so forth.

So you could pick "Ditch the Loot" (or a hero-named equivalent, like "Haggle") if your character has some reason for having that skill. Or you could take this template, which would pick your advantages for you.

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a new villian arives to the city of heros and villian DARK HORN he is mor powerful than any normal team of heros

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Wow, someone's a few IOs short of a set bonus.

That aside, I really like the underlying concept of the original post. I'm sure many of the points have been made already -- I must confess that I didn't read the entire thread.

I guess it makes me think of the "Background" advantages in various pen-and-paper RPGs. Rather than spending power picks on them (although, as a dedicated mastermind, I sympathize with that "not ANOTHER attack!" agony), maybe something akin to how the Kheldians work? You get one of these perks when you first create the character, unlock another (or choice of another) at 6 (or 10 or other arbitrary number). It's not a strict power choice, you still get your slots and such as normal, this just slides in with the inherents.

I'm inclined to wonder if it needs some counterbalance to it. I immediately see potential for "But I don't want to take a background, none of them fit with my concept, so by denying me those benefits, you're punishing me for not taking one" posts. Maybe some flat "Generic" benefit, like... "here, have a little extra starting hp."

Even narrowing them from pools into "background inherents" (or something like that) might work. Have them reflect your "real life" or outside experiences, or just... anything unique your character brings to the table.

Gut Feeling: That sinking sensation that tells you danger's right around the corner. Displays a little "Warning! There's an ambush en route!" message.
Security Expert/Safecracker: Reduced time for dealing with glowies, or more damage to vault doors or whatever.
Architect/Burglar: Knowing where the glowie is...
Local celebrity: Bonus to earned influence.
Ear to the ground: have to "interrogate" a few less enemies in street hunt missions.
Well-connected/trustworthy: get cell phone number from contacts earlier and/or fill up their bar faster so you get enhancements sooner.

And you pick one to represent "what I did (or who I was) before Outbreak/Breakout," and then get one... every 10 or 20 levels, to represent how you've spent the intervening time.

I don't know. I certainly see potential in this idea, which is why I'm feeling free to riff off of it. There are a lot of ways it could work, and I'd certainly enjoy it. I love picking up little "perks" like this in games.

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I have no actual backup to support that claim, but I blame Nemesis for everything.

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That's all part of his plan... Wheels within wheels.