CinderViper

Because there are alot of people who don't spend their fridays at 11 PM in a PvP zone and the live servers are all at best 1/10 the population of test...
Also; they only said directly that only RV would be accessible on the European forums, and I'm sure less people read those than people who knew about being able to exit to Grandville and Atlas...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

One of the things that PvPers say a lot is that there's no challenge in PvE. Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end? Can you solo a Giant Monster? Those things can be done. And it's a hell of a lot harder than taking some pimped out build into PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really. I think most PvPers like to PvP because it is a challenge to face a thinking opponent.

AV's, Giant Monsters, etc are 'hard' not because they are 'challenging' but because they have huge amounts of HP or damage or regen. They are still scripted and will perform the same way each time. A human opponent on the other hand will not. Therein lies the challenge and fun and excitement of PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]

In my experience, mindless fotm/nub-only PvPers are tediously predictable.

[/ QUOTE ]

In what way?

[/ QUOTE ]
His post makes sense now, I fixed it.

[ QUOTE ]

Well that's because you don't look for challenge. Can you solo a TF, including the AV at the end?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yep
[ QUOTE ]
Can you solo a Giant Monster?

[/ QUOTE ]
Nope, I don't have anything that fotm

PvE isn't not challenging because I'm so ubber super duper dandy that I can 2-shot anything and never get hit, its because mobs are computers, computers are given different ways that they can think, over time their ways of thinking become easily recognizable, hence I know what they'll do before they do it.

like a little over 1 day, and there were roughly 18-22 instances of RV at peak hours (and because you could exit into PvE (bug)) like 3 of Grandville

[ QUOTE ]
Take a class in statistics. What has more posts is meaningless since these forums do not represent the player base. Your average player probably doesn't even know these forums exist. NO I AM NOT KIDDING. Your sample set must be from the game itself, OR the players, OR the potential players.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

PvP: PVPers make up 2-6% of the population and PvP changes would require a lot of resources from Cryptic.
I have done some random sampling on Protector and Virtue over the last few days and the results show between 1% and 4% (Average 2.54%) of online players are in the PvP zones at any given time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did some random sampling as well:

At the time of this post:
There are exactly 596 threads in the "Badges" forum.
There are exactly 845 threads in the "PVP" forum.

This means that PVP is approximately 60% more popular than badges. Making badge hunters the minority.

So stop making new badges and fix PVP!

Seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you're dead wrong.
Maybe the common player who is new to the game doesn't iirc most veteran players who've been playing 3 months I'd say know they exsists, no they don't have to post, but they do know they exsist.
[/end pointless rant]

I PvP with ALL of my characters, even my MM that has an RP build >.>

Captain Mako sent me a threatening PM...
[ QUOTE ]
rawrfz *bites ur hed*

[/ QUOTE ]
...

APP v PPP inbalance

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
...
I realize that developer time is scarce and need to be prioritized. I also acknowledge that PvE matters will take precedence. But I do think there is an obvious inequity when a bugged badge or costume adjustment takes precedent over bugs that are, at least to a significant minority of the population, of high importance and extreme in their effect.
...


[/ QUOTE ]

I did want to comment on the issue of the relatively speedy change to costume issues versus server code issues like arena stability. Please keep in mind that the development folks who do the art are different people from the folks who do client/server code. So, while I don't want to diminish your point, I do want to point out that not doing the costume things wouldn't help speed up addressing arena issues.

[/ QUOTE ]

...is there any way you can inform us as to how many people work on what exactly anyway, Lighthouse?

[/ QUOTE ]
That would rock; an exact count of how many people currently work on what, art, bugs/fixes, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I do really like the suggestion about trying to re-use the old event where everyone got a level 40 on Training Room to come PvP with.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes! Yes! That event was an absolute blast and I would LOVE to do it again.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT
Better than (or second only to) the double XP Event!
Waaaay better than like anything else (halloween, christmas, valentines day, the anniversaries, cuppa's going away, rikti invasion, 5th collum-council war)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


lol cry more noobs, pvp is a part of this game whether you like it or not. go farm hamidon for the 1000th time and do some tf you did 40 times already and talk about how skilled you are beating up on some retarded AI on your roleplaying forums

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is why people like RyStorm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone knows the most important thread on the boards right now is the Future of /Respec though...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Long and the short of it, while there are some small PvP thingies getting some attention (like _Castle_ posting about Brute Fury in PvP a few days ago) there are not any big PvP issues on the nearer term feature lists.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the best thing I've heard from a redname in a goodly amount of time. No offense to the PvPers, but imo the devs have already invested way too much time in what is at best a minority interest.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

-- War

[/ QUOTE ]
QFI - Quoted for ignorance

[ QUOTE ]

The big thing is that if you make more powers and powersets PvP friendly, more people may PvP, thus making it an even bigger part of the game.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really had to QFTx500000000000

[NOTE: Sorry for the length of this ]
Thanks Lighthouse! I can't say I'm too happy about number 4 ( :P )...But the rest is well-recieved.

Big Nord from Lions Den would definately be interested in helping methinks (lol, I like it when I put words in people's mouths)
What might be fun with not too much organization would be Pentads (either villain or hero) and 1v1 or 2v2 matches. Some sort of bracket system or round robin.
Smaller-scale stuff will be alot more likely to also attract more casual PvP'ers who aren't in a group that can feild an optimal 3-man team let alone 8 versus 8 or larger (12-16 seems to be most common lately)

Another cool thing that might be fun with minimal work effort in checking winners and coordinating matches would be a weekly test server PvP Fight Night/Zone night like they do on Freedom (Psypunk runs these, I haven't logged onto Freedom or been to one in several months, so I don't know how/when they're being run now) but basically once every Friday a zone would be chosen and people would come out enmass to fight.
On a multiple-server level weekly this might be fun, but every other week would be great too.

Another thing I was thinking of that I thought about trying to get some people interested in a while back was an all out 32v32 Server versus Server battle. But a recent thread reminded me Freedom is the official "PvP Server" and will pretty much dominate again...

And last of all a small question: Any chance we could see another Issue 7 Recluse's Victory event where they wiped the test server and let us insta-level to 40 and get free enhancers for a day and just PvP on a large scale and play out any builds we want. That was one of the best events I've ever seen, really. A perfect merge of even the loathesome badge hunters ( ) and hardcore PvP'ers just comming out to do stuff they'd never be able to do on live.
BUT: With a few changes add a store where inspirations can be bought (even if just break frees, greens and blues)
Make the enhancements free (or if they requires too many programming changes just increase the infamy given out) some of the builds I rolled during that required loads of the priciest enhancers and ran out before I could fully slot (it was like 3 million last time?)


Thanks!
[edit]fixed my bold effect above[/edit]
[edit2]and I don't mean for all those events or tournaments to be done, just 1-2.[/edit]

lol, I have a similiar story.
We were going to pull, and I was pulling with ice bolt and every time it worked, then this corrupter would place down rain of fire...not only did it aggro everything it did like 2 damage total, and also split the group up so I couldn't rad debuff them, and this was in the 20's...

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to see stalkers be deleted from the AT list, it's the most cowardly thing you could ever pick. Imho the burst damage is way too high and couple that with the stealth powers they can stack they clearly have the upper hand on even the guys who run tactics.

- Stalkers do not help teamwork on the villain side! Almost all stalkers run solo and never team.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah...k
Also, stalkers make great blaster subsitutes with some web nades and buffs villain-side...do all blasters not help teamwork and never team?
-That's a bit skewed when it comes to defense/offensive balances, but you know what I mean.

Overall I agree with you.
Clear mind is ok maybe some limit to it, but 1 is too few, maybe limit the number of times certain buffs from it will stack, such as perception. Adding resistance to cage in breaks frees is a good idea.
Everyone gets access to strength of wills in Siren's, which I believe is a bug in the first place since they aren't used anymore and are sub-par unless you farm them for arena matches and pop 'em for the duration of a fight, but the fact that they exsist there at all is stupid imo...
Earth control should be fixed, animation times/range should be tweaked. I wonder, if we could get a list up of powersets across all ATs and the differences, small or big in range, damage, mez, etc of each set, a full comparison to best reccomend buffs for sets to balance them up.
On dominators I think they're balanced in the perfect world of "have twice as many people to do what we can now" world but imo they should just be brought up to speed, alot easier and better for buff rather than nerf, the problem is not buffing to the point where everyone has a "nuclear bomb" same as with a nerf you don't want people to be throwing "nerf bombs"
My general train of thought is that what the devs think is balanced shouldn't be the idea to base all ATs on, it might increase challenge sometimes, but the rest of the time we'll be getting RSF-like complaints on simple things I could probably do solo right now on my corrupter from teams of 4.

I will add it into the final finished thread for this, just one more session of input collection until I send her off to market.

[NEW ITEMS BELLOW]
The Following post is roughly 2 1/2 months wait of PMs from two sections of a survey/QA I did with roughly 45 members of top PvP SGs.
I asked:
What they liked about PvP?
-Fast pace, big time, this appeared across the board.


[ QUOTE ]
I like how fast paced PVP can be, unlike other games the PVP in COX moves at a tremendous pace..like a first person shooter but at the same time like a RPG..its by far the best PVP in an MMORPG.

[/ QUOTE ]


-Centered around team play, but room for 1v1 and 2v2
-Potential


[ QUOTE ]
What do I like about PVP in COH? The speed, teamwork, and pretty much everything else I can handle at least what I can think about at the moment

[/ QUOTE ]

-Amount and variety of powers, buffs, debuffs, etc... Every power has a 'flavor' to it.

What they disliked (i.e. the obvious issues that haven't ever even been commented on by a dev, and the ones that have too)
-Overall feeling that the developers don't give a rats [censored] about PvP.
-Layouts of PvP Zones, sizes, mob counts, PvE side-tasks not centered enough
[ QUOTE ]
PVP Zones - 3 out of the 4 PVP zones got completly original zone design which for the most part are very good..they should all be somewhat larger..the minimum size should have been Bloody bay as that is supposed to be a learning zone..instead Bloody bay is probably the largest of the PVP zones which makes no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

-Cagers: Pretty common, not so much as the like of the speed of PvP. It's clear when I read the responses that there was frustration of being able to permanantly remove a player from combat, but that it should remain a fairly viable strategy, just not as much of a way to crush a teams damage or damage mitigation for such large chunks of time.
-Badges in PvP zones and exploitable PvE content that results in flame wars.
-Targetting Macros: Another large majority of the people said they wanted all targetting macros 100% disabled in PvP.

[ QUOTE ]
2. Targetting Macro's- These are the worst and the reason I have stopped doing team PVP now. Basically they shouldn't even be coded in game and allows non-skilled PVPers to become awesome and GREAT PVPers to become gods

[/ QUOTE ]

-Balance between heroes and villains:
+Patron Power Pool's 'Fluff' Versus Ancillary Power Pools Situational/High Tier Level Powers (see: FA, TK, FoN, Hibernate, Power Build Up, Powersink, Rise of the Phoenix, Total Focus, etc)
+Brute Fury - This was the MOST common desire, to see Brute Fury fixed
+Dominators - Ineffective Inherent, this might work a bit better with the I8 buff, but it really isn't going to solve a ton.
+Hero Unresistables - Unresistable debuffs, unresistable criticals, 30% unresistable blaster damage. Now, through in the sub-par corrupter buffs and unresisted damage or debuff...what do you get? Yeah...
-Arena bugs: Been a LONG time, if you can't figure out this then you're just...omg...
-Not being able to choose arena maps (there are some really nasty maps that really just mess up both teams and ruin the fun)
-Lack of balance between powersets (see tanker/scrapper secondaries/primaries, IE: EM v.s. ...mace...)
-And back onto balance...again
A PM fron Cricket to Count V


[ QUOTE ]
From: Cricket

Hey there,

I don't know of any pvp balancing fixes coming up - I know they did a lot of this in the past, but I do recall Positron saying not too long ago that they are pretty happy with the pvp balancing overall. But remember, this isn't to say that changes won't come...changes will always happen.

You make a good point about the kiosks. I'll bring that one up...I'd also like to see that one fixed before expanding the arenas.

[/ QUOTE ]


BUT wait! Cinder Viper, how are the devs to improve PvP?!?!?!
1. Dev response to this thread letting us know we are heard.
2. Update on if any of this is down the line or if we should all go get Fury.
3. More original and unique maps for arena PvP and PvP zones, make them larger, not smaller, make the bounty system more common.
4. Hero-Villain team-ups in a high-level FFA zone
5. Reduced duration and/or increased recharge on cage powers. Removal of any accuracy bonuses given to cage powers.
6. Disable Targetting Macros.
7. Create a Patron System for CoH and add slightly different versions of APP's for villains.
8. PvP Server - Removed for now
9. Increase the rep cap from 400 to something truly massive (50,000,000 was suggested)
10. PvP Ladder for the Arena
11. Fix/balance base raids asap
12. Cross-server PvP in the arena, add a collumn with the name of the server the event was started on, players in arena events with the same name would become something like:
Cinder Viper - Triumph
13. In-depth tournament options for the arena (i.e. a bracket tournament that automatically assigns matches, you join> it gives you (or for team matches, your team) a place in the roster, there is a randomize button the match creator can click to randomize the team locations before starting)
Since the crash bugs will be fixed, the tournament will move smoothly, accurately advancing winners w/o a chance (other than d/c) to screw up matches.
14. Fix Brute Fury
15. Dominators are a complex beast, didn't get any imput on them nor can I think of a perfect fix, needs more input (PM me or reply here).
16. I can't sum this up any better, one of the BEST ideas I have heard, I think, done right it will work VERY well


[ QUOTE ]
To achieve balance they must make toons different enough so that it doesnt just come down to burst damage which is how the PVP in this game works currently.

The place to start would be tanks in my opinion, take a look at the tank sets in general. All the Defensive sets work a little differently but yet all have their strengths and weaknesses and can be made viable in PVP with little or no tweaking at this point..in essence they have achieved relative balance although clearly they are very different in the way they function.

Now look at the offensive side of tanks and this is where the devs just dont get it..with tanks there is really only 1 PVP set and its EM, the massive burst damage in a less resisted type + heavy Stuns = victory. The other sets lag very far behind in some cases they are completly non existent because they suck so friggen bad when compared to energy.

The Devs path is to nerf energy melee..and it will happen at some point. Instead they should be buffing the other sets. You might ask "well how do you buff them..giving them more damage is the same as reducing everybody to brawl".

The way to buff them is to jack up the secondary effects of their melee attacks. If the secondary effects matter at all in this game beyond the ability to stun then you can achieve balance. The slows in Ice Melee should be very strong..especially when stacked so that in essence an ice melee tank is like a Boa constrictor..the more you get hit by them..the slower you get and they kill you because you cant move..cant attack..cant even defend yourself if you get hit enough by one.

While a fire tank should create Fear, confusion and either a - defense or a - resistence effect. If you have ever been caught in a fire you understand A) how damned scary it is..B) how confusing it can be with all the smoke and C) how much it hurts and for how long it stays with you after you have been burned.

By buffing fire melee and adding some confuse effects..some fear effects , some minus regen ( smoke inhalation) with a little - resistence..now fire becomes a viable PVP set because the side effects begin to matter.

Super Strength should be in fact super..it should deal damage and have severe knockback abilities, and those knockbacks should deal damage as well as be partially unresistable so that it gives the effect and feeling of Super Strength. IF somebody was strong enough to lift a bus then when they hit a 350 lb man that man is going to go flying..no matter what. However endurance would be an issue for somebody so strong. I think Super Strength needs to be super.

Every Set in the Tanker Secondary could be made viable if you added enough secondary effects to the powers..thus making them all very different but at the same time equal.

This basic concept applies to all the sets..Scrappers run into the same exact type of problems tanks do..Spines Dominates with its overall higher damage and Range..sure you might see a Broadsword or Katana here or there but since nobody stays still in PVP those sets fall to the wayside very quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]


17. More powers and powersets.
18. My idea for helping to balance holds against squishies was allowing acrobatics to be slotted for resistance, 3 slotted it would double the magnitude protection and protect from a single hold from a controller/dominator (w/o domination/critical holds), will help with the problems with some controllers, break frees and acro can be easily broken by many controller/dominator sets. Break frees help with holds, but SHOULDN'T be the 'everything' when it comes to not being a giant bullseye for controllers/doms when you're playing a mez resistancless character.
19. More input from me...Un-nerf hurricane, I'm not the only person to feel it's an uneeded change (not just because my main is a stormie ) it's far to easy to get past the -to hit debuff for a change that was said to be to prevent the repel from holding people in corners (which btw, I can still do ty)
20. Fix the arena
21. "
22. "
23. "
24. "
25. "
26. "
27. Allow us to choose arena maps.
28. Stop thinking PvP's a minority, PvP matches on test have a higher turnout than Triumph (and other server's) average Hamidon raid turnouts...The people comming ARE PvP'er.

That's all for now, feel free to add to it.
I'd post this in the suggestions forums, but it's not done yet.

Special Thanks to: Big Nord, Count V, Triox, Teh_Mags, Krole, and Cryokinesis for your extra help in this!

NEW:
-Boost dominator damage in normal mode (just bellow blasters?)
-Secondary effects to dominator holds
-Cage resistance powers?
-Make powers such as speed boost less detrimental to slow powers
-Fix -jumpspeed





I have more but I'm pressed for time atm, sorry

Ok, if it doesn't work this time I'll give up...
<ul type="square">[*]Supergroup Name: Voidless Shadows[*]Website (if any): Our website[*]Leader or Recruiting Officers: [u]@Cinder Viper[u], @.Chrome, @Seranox [*]Preferred Method of contact: Global Tell, In-Game Email, Forum Post (our forums, not CoX ones), Forum PM (these forums), [*]Guild Description:
Small but growing group of dedicated and experienced players with a sense of humor (sometimes a bit immature )
We try to do PvP Zone outings as much as we can, and all enjoy it very much.[/list]

EDIT: Oh weird new-ish thread/page...

Oh, I remember getting stuck at the sewer doors in the CoV tutorial lol

I hardly got to play at all during the early days of CoH, I player off my friend's account, I remember some guy like mystery something like ? man or question mark man or w/e with a question mark symbol and pink suit. Powers where either like grav/kin, mind/kin, mind/emp, or something...Magic Controller, he was psychic themed, but supposed to be like X-Men and a mutant sorta, but magic... I remember not having any clue at all what I was doing and I remember transfusion and I remember this short, dark-colord, villain-like female character and thinking, hey she's like a villain! I remember having like 7 origins or something, and not having archetypes (zomg, em/rad/regen/kin ftw :P if only that was possible too, taking all of em, rad, regen and kin )

From CoV beta I remember the statesman strike, and I remember thinking fire sheild from the thermal set was a self shield, and taking like half of my powers as power pools, and griefing people in siren's call with TP foe so much and not realizing how much of a jerk I was being...and swearing alot in siren's call and getting repeatedly reported and stuff for it...

...

Villaingroup Name: Voidless Shadows

Website: Voidless Shadows Network
Register here

Server: Triumph

Leaders or Recruiting Officers:
1)Cinder Viper (@Cinder Viper)
2)Mephistroth (not active, gone to WoW)

Preferred Method of contact:
• In-game tell or e-mail to a leader (@Cinder Viper for tells, Cinder Viper or Atomic Freezer for E-mail)
• PM on the COH/COV Forums
• Sign-up on the Voidless Shadows Website and go to the Forums and post in the public forum (gonna make you sign-up as it is if you join, so this is a good way )

Description: Voidless Shadows has been around since CoV Beta. Being the founder, you should know a few things about my philosophy in running it. I’ll admit it (since everyone already knows ), I take the chat filters with quite a bit of lax. Secondly, people of ALL levels of experience and any build, level, or archetype are allowed to join up with us. Members should be people who have an enthusiastic and energetic outlook and are willing to have a good time and help fellow members. I think everyone joining up in CoV/H or just making another character or looking for a more helpful group should be able to readily get the following (and I’m sure I missed something) types of help to the best of the member’s who are online’s ability: Builds and power choices, Help with missions or Task Forces, Badge missions or locations, Infamy (CoV money)/ Enhancements, and Teams.

~[color= black ]Cinder Viper[/color]