Cicle

1 hold is useful all the time. BFR has an animation time close to a snipe, does half the damage, and costs about the same end to use. Therefore by upping the range on those other powers it would make BFR appear to be Ice's placement for a snipe. In that regard its subpar. I would so rather have a snipe or another AOE attack than the current BFR.

Archery may have what you listed, but those are balanced by its attacks being mostly lethal.

Ice's attacks are 3 single targets and 1 AOE. Heck my tank has more attacks than my blaster. By having no snipe and no second AOE attack; regardless of how powerful or useful they are; is balanced against Ice's control and being allowed to stay at range in all its attacks. In my opinion that is a good tradeoff.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In an upcoming patch, here are a few things you'll see:
Increased EDIT:Maximum ranges for attacks like Blaze.
Some improvements for */Fire (No, no powers were switched out. No Fiery Embrace, I'm afraid. )
Some improvements for Fire/*
A very minor improvement for Gadgets...I mean, Devices! (Yeah, it was a dumb mistake -- typing in haste and all of that.)

[/ QUOTE ]
Let Bitter Ice Blast be your guide in adjusting the high-damage attacks. Never made sense to me why BIB was so much longer than the other attacks in the first place.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is Ice's exchange for not having a snipe then?

Disclaimer (since everything is apparently taken hostile in here): This is simply a question it is not given in anger or a "thats stupid and you suck!" tone.

And I still have no faith that anything will happen within the next 2 issues.

I think the Devs are still lost at what they are going to do. I asked a week or so ago with no response.

This may be off the wall or whatever; but how many of you (testing thig) actually slot taunt enh in your attacks? Maybe try 1 or even 2 in your attacks to see if it causes a difference.

This may be along the lines of what the other guy was getting at with the hold mag thing. But what if AV's and GM's had a taunt mag level? Not as beefy as the PTOD but something that would have to be constantly monitored by the tank. That way you couldn't just stand there using taunt and expect it to work. You'd have to taunt, hit, and use your AOE. If you skip taunt the mag level wouldn't be insurmountable, but would make your job a bit more difficult. If you dipped into the presence pool (which hardly anyone I know does these days), it would make your job even easier.

Thoughts?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was needed because tanks removed the challenge of AVs. Just sit around holding its aggro via gauntlet and taunt auras and no one else had to worry about taking hits.

[/ QUOTE ]
Except that's not what happens. AVs have tons of area effect attacks, so the other guys are going to inevitibly take a few hits, especially if they're squishy types that have to stay in close proximity to their enemies. This is true of most blasters, on account of their heavy third attack, and many defenders. The tanker is there to soak up the brutal single target attacks that AVs throw out.

The only reason this change was made, apparently, was because 40 brutes managed to taunt-lock the player-controlled heroes in the CoV beta event such that they couldn't attack at all. This isn't really a limitation that AI opponents have, and I've never seen a giant monster in the past that had trouble picking targets with lots of tankers taunting it. Paladin will trash you just as badly, six tankers or not.

And the other thing to consider. If the tanker isn't hogging the aggro, where is it going to go? The blasters and controllers. The guys doing the most damage, and the guys stacking the most effects in each attack. I don't think I need to explain the problem there.

[/ QUOTE ]

A blaster that enters AOE range of a AV or GM will die in 2 hits, if that. I'm sorry a squishy shouldn't be in range of an AOE, period. Well unless they feel like faceplanting. A blapper is more than just /em.

Also who nukes AV's or GM's? Ok I've done it in the past, but that was way past the point of anyone surviving in general. If I'm going to go out, might as well go out with a bang .

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I'm an Ice/Ice/Cold blaster. *shhhhh don't tell anyone* My powerset has largely been left alone except for ED. Well there was Hibernate but that was largely bleed off from a nerf to tanks. Does it suck for my blaster? Eh kinda, it is nice for a quick invincible rest. If I was less caring about concept on Cicle I'd swap it for probably electric. Can you imagine Emp pulse -> Blizzard? Can't run too far falling on your rear and disoriented. Yeah the recharge sucks (slower than a nuke), but I don't pop Blizzard too often anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whenever my blaster gets to 41, she's going to be Ice/Energy/Elec.

Not because I thought of EMP + Blizzard. Thanks, man! I actually had a concept for it and all. Plus, I love the look.

I believe all the blaster holds were hit after the defender holds were, but that may be it.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL np. I actually didn't think about it till the other day when I was hypothesizing a change. I always saw Ice storm -> Blizzard as awkward (two rains in a row), I much prefer Shiver -> Blizzard.

If that hold thing effected me I never noticed it. I still hold bosses without issue.

Sometimes I wish I could be a powerbuild guy without needing a concept. Heck even my fire/stone tank (now stone/elec brute) had a back story.

Gideon_F

Your post was stating you got a response and what you posted was all you got. You asked for a read receipt by checking that box, I'm glad you understand that.

I see now your original post was made in sarcasm though.

The lack of dev response is not a tanker specific issue; in fact its been longer for other archtypes to have heard from a dev than tanks. Actually I think tanks have gotten more attention, good or bad, than any other archtype. The devs have not really responded on board to archtype specific gripes in a long time. Unless it was a major bug. I can understand why though.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cicle, could you repeat what you're trying to post?

I imagine it's about the difference between when scrappers didn't do anything well on a team and when they were overpowered and everyone wanted to nerf them, but without seeing your actual post, I can't have a decent conversation with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have no idea how that happened.

I just said blasters still are

In regards to scrapper blood.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is axiomatic.

But blasters really need something. Seriously, if I were primarily a blaster player, rather than brute/scrapper/tanker, I would've been so gone forever last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi.

I'm a blaster.

Most of us are still here 'cause we're used to getting rammed in the pooper anyway, so what difference does it make.

[/ QUOTE ]

No its getting it without the *other part* (other part is in reference to something that very well is against forum rules and not everyone will want to know, have kids know, about it).

I don't think the blasters issue is nerf after nerf like regen delt with (hows that for throwing yet another fire onto the inferno ?). Tanks and scrappers were a kick in the jimmy issue after issue while blasters were poked and prodded incessantly without ever really being addressed. It kinda went Dev: "Hey guys let us hear you issues" two days later "wait what were we doing?"

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cicle, could you repeat what you're trying to post?

I imagine it's about the difference between when scrappers didn't do anything well on a team and when they were overpowered and everyone wanted to nerf them, but without seeing your actual post, I can't have a decent conversation with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have no idea how that happened.

I just said blasters still are

In regards to scrapper blood.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is axiomatic.

But blasters really need something. Seriously, if I were primarily a blaster player, rather than brute/scrapper/tanker, I would've been so gone forever last year.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm an Ice/Ice/Cold blaster. *shhhhh don't tell anyone* My powerset has largely been left alone except for ED. Well there was Hibernate but that was largely bleed off from a nerf to tanks. Does it suck for my blaster? Eh kinda, it is nice for a quick invincible rest. If I was less caring about concept on Cicle I'd swap it for probably electric. Can you imagine Emp pulse -> Blizzard? Can't run too far falling on your rear and disoriented. Yeah the recharge sucks (slower than a nuke), but I don't pop Blizzard too often anyway.

[ QUOTE ]
The responses to my PMs. The lack of any text by Positron and Castle means that there was none. Just see what was said and continue ignoring it because it is Tanker related.

10/16/06 05:51 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Read Receipt
.
From: _Castle_
.
Your private message at http://boards.cityofvillains.com/login.php to _Castle_ about 'A post that could use clarification' has been read.

[/ QUOTE ]

10/16/06 06:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Read Receipt
.
From: Positron
.
Your private message at http://boards.cityofheroes.com/login.php to Positron about 'A post that could use clarification' has been read.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you asked for a read reciept and got one. That they haven't responded to you specifically in a manner you'd accept as timely is irrelevant.

[ QUOTE ]
Cicle, could you repeat what you're trying to post?

I imagine it's about the difference between when scrappers didn't do anything well on a team and when they were overpowered and everyone wanted to nerf them, but without seeing your actual post, I can't have a decent conversation with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I have no idea how that happened.

I just said blasters still are

In regards to scrapper blood.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This has been said about every hero AT. Scrappers just have it said about them by others, usually.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Scrappers seem to be one of the easiest to determine their role. They go nuts and kill stuff. They can also take a few hits along

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This has been said about every hero AT. Scrappers just have it said about them by others, usually.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Scrappers seem to be one of the easiest to determine their role. They go nuts and kill stuff. They can also take a few hits along the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

There was a time in the game's history where scrappers didn't really do anything well enough to merit a team slot over other ATs. This was after the purple patch and before issue 1. Criticals and the addition of levels 40-50 helped.

[ QUOTE ]
Tankers, in the Devs eyes, are supposed to take the damage from the enemies, unless there's too many enemies, or the enemy is really large and could one-shot a squishy (if you could one-shot anymore), or if the enemy deals damage you're weak to (per Statesman's example, which I don't succumb to).

I've played just about every AT to about level 20 (not that that's a definitive mark) and lowbie tankers are the only ones that seem to baffle me as to what it is they should be doing in a group. Now even high-level tankers without the ability to hold AV aggro without taunt makes me wonder what their role is.

[/ QUOTE ]

A tanker's role is to serve as a focus for buffs and heals while smacking his fist into his palm.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't forget those herding Inv scrappers of times past Kali .

[ QUOTE ]
Question: Does your inherent work on AV's?

Answers:
Blaster: Yep. When I hit the red.


[/ QUOTE ]

LOL if a Blaster is in the red against an AV, death is only a fraction of a second away. He might get one shot off.

As to the issue at hand... I would never consider not taking taunt on a team orriented tank. I'm there to keep the mobs off the team the best I can, and I'll take any help I can to do that. Besides an aura doesn't do squat when a teammate aggro's a mob out of its range. As much as I'd love to leave them to their fate, it'd be too easy for them to run back to the team pulling aggro I may not have 100% of. Most AV's have been too easy in the past. If the AV's attention is on the tank 100% of the time what risk do any of the other members take? None except if the tank drops. As a blaster if the tank has 100% aggro I'm pretty much free to do whatever I want. Heck I've rested in the middle of large scale battles. This was pre tank nerfs and ED since I hit 50 before then and haven't participated in large missions since.

This is my opinion its not meant to "slap" any of you in the face for not taking taunt. Or to argue you should take taunt. Its your toon build it how you like, if you can hold the aggro well enough as is (sans AV's now of course) then great. I personally will not risk the team simply for one power.

I should edit in I didn't read the entire post. I read most of the first two pages until it became redundant. So if bugs relating to taunt itself are there as well I missed them.

Edit again...a doom post on the blasters side promted the above stuff. I didn't find anything really noting that now that I've read all 10 bloody pages now

Lighting Reflex's also inscreases your attack speed and resists -spd.

[ QUOTE ]
why do I have this nagging voice in the back of my head saying people will cry about EM Stalkers again...

also if Castle is the Stalker Rep...gee...what AT will you think he'll work on more? Hmm...this is such a brain buster...damn I think I gave myself a hernia trying to figure this out @_@

I love how people say Stalkers are broken and I'm 100% sure it's based off of AS, cause nothing else is really "broken" in a Stalker AT unless you want to start complaints about Plactate which is there are ways around just as Hide...

[ QUOTE ]
Every single patron power pool has a snipe AND a single-target hold.

[/ QUOTE ]

the Hold I can see it giving every Stalker AT some bit of balance since MA and EM have a "hold" of there own, namely a stun. Though once again w/ EM Stalkers...I hear more complaints coming about them. The typical Stalker in PvP Zones don't have Stealth...it's really only the PvP dedicated ones that grab Stealth to stack w/ Hide. So pretty much and /Device Blaster or a Blaster w/ Tactics will see through the typical Stalker, like me

Steathed Blappers? um...Ninjitsu, Super Reflexes have a +Perception power...there goes your Stealth...EA has Repel...there goes your melee unless you do a death from above on them. You're only real fresh meat is /Regen since they don't have a +Perception power.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think it would be a good idea for a Stalker to give away his position, that would go against their strengths.

[/ QUOTE ]

well depending on your situation, would you want to give your position away in melee combat w/ AS or from ranged w/ a snipe where they will have to look for you?

Though I can picture this happening w/ Stalkers now...Snipe, Teleport, Hold/Stun/Fear, Plactate, death

[/ QUOTE ]

At least on my server, it doesn't take long at all for a stalker to respec into stealth. The ones who do have it far outweigh the ones who don't.

Although not a hold dont forget impale.

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so stalkers get snipes.
Pop a yellow
Aim+build up
Stalker is still dead wether or not he can launch a snipe AFTER he AS's, no stalker will open with a snipe, not to mention no stalker will end with one. It's plain dumb. A stalker wants you dead before you can pop a green or a heal, a snipe takes time to launch, by then yer gone with a green or yer heal activating, not to mention the snipe has to actually connect, theres a period of time of it floating through the air as well. A stalker can kill you much faster without the snipe.
Now I think the snipe is a good thing, do you know how annoying it must be to not have any chance of killing a stormie...EVER. The only stalker that can is nrg/ and maybe /SR and whatnot can avoid being hit by it but I'm not sure. At least stalkers will have a chance now.
Double teaming the snipe may become over powered but frankly, two stalkers attack a blaster, he's dead, see them or not a blaster wont take down two stalkers on most occasions, they just have to good of defense and to powerful attacks, not to mention even with yellows they can placate and hit crits.
So this isnt makin things unbalanced, if anything its more fair. Not to mention heroes get holds like crazy and the whole 9 yards. Super defenses (force of nature) its all really the player, not the AT in most cases. A good player makes all the difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 yellows plus tactics from myself and I can see a stalker from a reasonable distance.

Alot of the arguments comming from the pro snipe side is that the snipe is helping against things here and there that cause them difficulty. Ok so your snipe now helps you defeat whatever easier. What your failing to address is that this is breaking you against every other set.

So the few sets that didnt have a ranged attack, Ninja Blade (not great as a whole, but by the time snipe is available you have a couple of nice attacks with soaring dragon and golden dragonfly, doing knockup and knockdown), martial arts (same as NB in the late game except 2 nice and 1 utilitarian powers, cobra strike with a high disorient, crane kick with knockback, and eagles claw heavy damaging, disorient, and crit chance out of hide), and energy melee (like it needs a ranged attack).

A snipe will allow a team of 2-3 or more (depending on actual damage of the attack) from systematically taking out an entire team without fear of retaliation. A hero or villians team buffs only allow sight so far. Snipe's range exceeds or can exceed this range. For those of you who believe small teams of stalkers, even consisting of beginner stalkers, don't exist you are sadly mistaken. There are times in SC that a team of 3+ stalkers will TP you in the middle then simultaneously AS you. Even the most idiotic stalker team could figure this snipe tactic out.

And who cares about the bloody animation time when we can't see you using it. I think someone even complained (its 11 pages now I don't care to go back through and verify, so take this with a grain of salt) that the power couldnt be used when engaged in combat (or something like that).

Aim/Buildup? Heh with stalkers running their level 38 powers you'll only hit 25% of the time. Tell me, what does a stalker do when he realizes a blaster is trained on him (team environment)? He stops attacking, runs, and rehides. Or 1vs1 he placates and defeats said blaster at his leisure. "Use a rain power" you say? I've been AS'ed standing in ice storm because the stalker was using overload (note this is not a gripe towards said stalker, that was a fun fight).

[ QUOTE ]
OMG cmon guys I dont know what servers you play on...I play on Justice and I get owned by blasters EVERYDAY if anyone is overpowered its you guys anything /nrg or /electric will detoggle and mez me in 1 hit everytime might was well not even have mez protection THATS overpowered. On my server 90 percent of the blasters I run into are like that....its insane 1 bone smasher my mez protection drops and i'm stunned and fall outta the sky.....then I die in 1 maybe 2 shots I can go TOE to TOE with a tank or scrapper....but NO freaking way a blaster like I said...detoggled stunned....dead so fast its not even funny

[/ QUOTE ]

Wait wait wait.... Your argument is that since 2 secondary sets out of five are causing issues we shouldn't complain? Or did you miss the changes comming to toggle dropping? You do realize builds such as these are because of stalkers and their dominance in lower zones?

On the other hand an entire arctype will be causing issues.

If your going to argue at least do it with some rational thought.

The inspiration arguement is also inane. At level 50 I have maybe 3 encounters worth of inspirations available. After that I'm left with maybe a couple breakfrees and enrages of varying sizes. Where do you suggest I refill my inspiration tray in zone?

On a side note the suicide drop is fun

I think the extent of my time in RV will be spent in the middle of the zone in Hibernate for the time badge.

[ QUOTE ]
How is this worse for Blasters? It affects all heroes. It actually affects Controllers and Defenders more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh at least on Pinnacle if a stalker has to choose between a troller, defender, or a blaster; the blaster is usually first to drop.

How about this scenario, Stalker sits on roof, snipes with mace beam or water spout unsuspecting squishy on the ground. As soon as power goes off he jumps down and finishes off squishy that just got knocked on his rear.

As to the blasters have armors argument. Inane, you now have ranged holds. If you miss darn.

The only times defiance ever was useful for me was while fighting brutes.

You can't kill what you can't hit period.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Further, most blasters get ranged holds, defenses and additional nukes. I think in the 40+ game, stalkers will have to be, oh, I don't know, a bit more skilled. I think that will be good for the game and hopefully we'll see something other than just stalkers in the PvP zones.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you, this will seperate the skilled players from the wannabes who run their mouths in the pvp zones because they feel uber.

A stalker should be skilled at what he or she does, it should not be a simple go to boom your dead type of build.

I personally like the 1 shotting now, but I hope they do fix it soon so it takes at least 2 shots, giving everyone a chance to heal up.

That way we will see how good most of these stalkers are, when it requires more then one push of a button.

[/ QUOTE ]

It does take 2 shots to drop my blaster. I just don't have enough inspiration slots to hold that many respites. Nor do said respites matter when I can't do anything (ie patron holds or EM).

On another note:

1vs1
Who is affected by these powers: Defenders, Controllers, Blasters

Who is not: Scrappers, Tanks

Who can hurt a stalker?
Blasters (Who in the end game against any stalker, sans possibly DA, running their lvl 38 power will loose. yes ive been AS'd in an ice storm)
Scrappers
Controllers (see blaster)

Annoyances to Stalkers?
Tanks
Defenders


My 1 ingrained to the set defense I had against stalkers has just been taken away. Thanks Devs.

Also of note ALL villian sets recieved an immob or hold in their patron sets. I sincerely hope hero ancillary sets get looked at for usefulness.

At this rate I see PvP zones being more and more populated by Scrappers and a few defenders buffing them. Occasional tanks and trollers (mostly storms)

The one thing I am happy about is Castle finally realized how dominant stalkers have been across all servers in pvp compared to other villians and heroes.

All I know is a certain Necro/Poison MM stomped all over my Stone tank with ease.

All I know is if ToF is in the set Im going to be pissed. I don't want to start my stalker over

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your curious about the stealth cloak of DA being left in just look at the differences between stalkers EA and Brutes EA.

I would not hold your breath on it being left in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... EA for stalkers was designed first, and then it was altered to be brute-suitable. In that case, Hide was replaced with Energy Cloak, not the other way around.

If DA simply ends up as a gloomy clone of EA, that'd be disappointing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Hide was probably replaced by power shield, repulse by energy cloak. But thats beside the point.

Again I would not put bets on cloak of darkness being left in. That one power would make DA significantly more appealing than any of the other sets. Hide+Cloak+Stealth tell me there wouldn't be issues there. Yes I am aware any stalker can get 3 stealth like powers on them, but the third takes another party.

[/ QUOTE ]

What the hell are you talking about? Cloak of Darkness can't stack with Stealth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well ok color me stupid .

But it wouldnt require DA stalkers to delve into the stealth pool to achieve the same effect every other stalker has in PvP solo.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If your curious about the stealth cloak of DA being left in just look at the differences between stalkers EA and Brutes EA.

I would not hold your breath on it being left in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... EA for stalkers was designed first, and then it was altered to be brute-suitable. In that case, Hide was replaced with Energy Cloak, not the other way around.

If DA simply ends up as a gloomy clone of EA, that'd be disappointing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Hide was probably replaced by power shield, repulse by energy cloak. But thats beside the point.

Again I would not put bets on cloak of darkness being left in. That one power would make DA significantly more appealing than any of the other sets. Hide+Cloak+Stealth tell me there wouldn't be issues there. Yes I am aware any stalker can get 3 stealth like powers on them, but the third takes another party.

If your curious about the stealth cloak of DA being left in just look at the differences between stalkers EA and Brutes EA.

I would not hold your breath on it being left in.