CaptainFoamerang

Originally Posted by Tymers_Realm

I can see why Superman II is on that list. While the whole 'lose powers to go any marry the one you love' angle is lame, the film covered everything you would want to see in a Superman film.

And honestly, if a X-men film made that list, I'd put the first one in there.

Thank you for the time...

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

The good news is that at least according to the daily numbers First Class seems to have significantly better legs than either Last Stand or Wolverine. In fact its already doing better than Wolverine did in week two. That suggests word of mouth on the movie is decent and it might do a little better than opening weekend initially projected. That still projects out to only about $140 million, but that's not bad for an X-Men relaunch without Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan, or Hugh Jackman (more or less).

I'm curious to see what this weekend looks like: does the trend to having better staying power continue, or does it start to wear off. A weekly drop off of like 40% implies it might stick around longer than average, while a drop of 50% suggests to me it won't.

Originally Posted by Furio

Yeah, but the source of the angst isn't really the issue. Yes, the Xmen are an angsty group, but because they had to cram so many stories/characters into the blender for those movies, they almost completely excised the fun and joy beats from the comics, leaving behind a half-hearted representation of the Xmen...something they were already doing even if they did manage to capture what Mandu's talking about.

Originally Posted by Mandu

Wow, you really are missing the point aren't you? Either that or you just like responding in nonsequiturs. I said absolutely nothing about the protecting a world that hates and fears them. That has always been an integral part of the x-men mythology. But just because you are doing something for somebody who doesn't appreciate it you don't have to spend all your time being mopey and emo and wishing you were normal. Just as the world that hates them has always been a central part of the x-men mythology so has the I enjoy having powers and having fun with them aspect.

Originally Posted by Mandu

I get the feeling that Tenzhi and I grew to know the x-men through the older comic books. The 80s and even before. While the people who are arguing that the movies are good and that the characters are well developed came to know the x-men during the 90s or just from the movies.

Sit back kids and let grandpa tell ya a little story about the x-men before you get off his lawn. The x-men are kids. They have always been kids. Sure some of them have been in their twenties but the majority of the time the majority of the group has been in its teens.

And they like having super powers. Think of it. If you gained the power of being a super acrobat. Somebody who was so agile and dextrous that you could make the best parkour runners look like they were wearing lead vests and concrete boots. You could make jugglers who had spent a lifetime practicing look like rank beginners. Would you get all mopey and depressed because your feet looked like hands?

And if your powers didn't make you look different it would be even more exciting. You are a teen with the ability to create ice out of thin air. Or move objects with your mind. Or phase through walls. Or fly. Or turn to metal. Are you really going to spend all your time being serious or are you going to have fun with your powers? It's like watching high school athletes complain about how having extra strength and speed make them such outcasts. Then spend their time complaining to each other how they wish they could just be normal.

THAT is the problem with the x movies. It has been a strong theme through the comics throughout their entire lifetime. These are kids and they enjoy having powers and they have fun with those powers. When things get serious then they have to buckle down and be serious as well but they don't spend their entire time being serious. In fact with the exception of Cyclops they spend as little time as possible being serious.

That hasn't been present in even one of the movies with the sole exception of First Class and there it lasted for maybe a minute. And after it happened they got chastised and started feeling sorry for themselves again. The movies have the same tone as the comics in the 90s (which was when I stopped reading them) where everything became dead serious doom and gloom.

Ironically the worst of the movies (x3) actually came closest to getting the tone of the comics right. It wasn't well written or acted but the whole confrontation between Juggernaut and Kitty, the fun that Madrox had with his powers, Wolverine going stone cold killer while charging into the mutant camp, all those things echoed strongly the make up of the comics through the years they were most popular.

Marvel has traditionally had comics where the characters reveled in the power they had and had fun with it even though they took their responsibilities dead seriously. The first Spiderman movie had this attitude. In fact that's why I actually consider Daredevil (the directors cut, not the theatrical release) and the Fantastic Four movies to be superior "Comic Book" movies to the x series. Not better written. Not better acted. but more true to the genre.

Truth be told I would have to say the super hero movie I enjoyed most was probably Sky High just because it really did capture the feeling of having fun with the abilities they had.

And that is why I feel the way I do about the x movies. I don't think they are bad superhero movies. I just think they are bad x-men movies. Kind of like Starship Troopers. It's a wonderfully fun movie, but it isn't Heinlein's Starship Troopers.

Originally Posted by Residentx10

Who had bad hair? Okay, DC's on deck next, Green Lantern Hold the X3 was bad comment till after the 17th. Transformers I don't know what to expect.

Originally Posted by EvilRyu

I dont get all the hate for the first 3 x-men movies. They were good to me. True enough they do not respect the source material and they wrote themselves into a corner they couldnt get out of but hell doesnt every movie these days do? That bit aside as a movie and you had no prior knowledge of the marvel comics you can not really say it was a bad movie compared to all the other garbage thats been coming out prior to this summer.

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

I don't consider character interactions to be aesthetics. I'm speaking of appearances, which are important for a franchise born from a largely visual medium. A single bad aesthetic choice can ruin an otherwise decent comic book movie for me if it's horrible enough - such as in the Spider-man movie. Not that things like the black motocross uniforms are on the same level as Go Go Goblin Ranger - they're merely minor irritations that compound with everything else I dislike about the X-movies.

But I'll say that judging from the trailers it looks like First Class may have done somewhat better in that regard, at least (too bad the story and character interactions in it look very Origins Wolverine-ish).

Originally Posted by Starflier

I'm mostly concerned with the lack of Durakken in a Batman thread.

Originally Posted by Nightphall

"We are done with Universe altering events after Final Crisis"

I think I'm done with DC.

ALSO: Renumbering Action Comics and Detective Comics should be against the law.

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

The missing aesthetics and whininess were present through all three of the movies. The more characters they added, the worse it seemed to get, culminating in the atrocity that is X3. Nightcrawler was one of the worst parts of X2. They sapped all the swashbuckling fun out of Kurt and left us with Crying Bibleman.

And on top of all that, I hated the plot with Mutant 143.

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

Absolutely serious. There was very little to like about the X-Men movies. A few character performances here and there, but overall I'd almost rather watch the 1994 Fantastic Four movie again than rewatch the X-Men movies. They failed to capture any of the fun of the comics, whilst over-representing all the whiny mutant angst and missing much of the aesthetics. The slightly awkward moments with Portman's characer in Thor didn't bother me nearly as much as every moment of Rogue, most of Storm's performance, the horrible Nightcrawler, some of Jean Grey's screentime, Pyro's screentime, etc.

Originally Posted by Casual_Player

Meh.

If they're going to do a real 60s-style reboot instead of the half-arsed messing about they've been doing ever since the '86 Crisis then they need to chop out all the deadwood.

We don't need a half dozen shmoes running around in Robin tights. It's pretty clear that Grayson/Nightwing has enough of a hold on the B List to keep around, but everyone else needs to be on the chopping block. Pick one- Damien, Tim, Jason, who-the-heck-ever looks like they'll relate the best to 21st century sensibilities, and keep him as Robin; then axe the rest.

Retcon them all into Earth 23, Limbo, or wherever. We all know they'll be brought back eventually anyway, so just wipe the slate clean now and give everyone room to grow into the old familiar molds again.

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

But, Thor was far better than X2.

Originally Posted by Nericus

Problem is that being exposed to red solar energy doesn't instantly negate his powers, but he will run out of stored solar energy if he's not still exposed to a yellow sun.

Case in point: in JLU when Captain Atom fought Superman to keep The Question from being rescued from Cadmus. Captain Atom used red solar energy and gave a good fight but Superman still defeated him.