BlueSentinel

I know normal maintenance happens on Monday mornings, but it seems rather silly to take the servers down on a holiday........ couldn't it have waited for tomorrow?

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The arguments for Spin posted so far are good ones and illustrate why some people highly value Spin. In this regard, I don't think there is only one "right" answer, which is another reason that Claws is a strong set--you have some flexibility in your power choices and can still be effective.

Still, the types of arguments I make against Spin are also good ones. It's important to realize that 3-5 barely-damaged foes are still alive and hitting you. Spin draws *more* aggro on you that otherwise might be directed at other members of the team. This can be good in some cases (protecting squishies), but can be bad in other cases (scrappers are *not* tanks and can go down like a sack of potatoes if they garner too much alpha strike).

Another way of looking at it is that if you are focusing on fast single-target damage, you are removing individual sources of damage *faster* than if you focus on minimal AOE damage. If I can eliminate 2 out of 6 foes quickly, I've effectively cut down on the total incoming damage to myself and the team by 33%. If I were to use Spin instead and as a result knock out only 1 of those 6 foes in the same span of time, I've cut down on the total incoming damage by only 17%.

If you consider those example numbers carefully, you'll see that single-target damage is a more effective mitigator of the "alpha strike" than AOE damage. Yes, focusing on AOE damage, especially in a large team, will ultimately help the entire group be killed faster, but the trade-off is that in the early stages of the fight you are not mitigating the heavy alpha strike, putting yourself and any squishy teamate more at risk.

Plus, if scrappers were really all that concerned about protecting squishies, more of them would take the taunt power. LOL how many scrappers do you know that actually took Confront or its equivalent in the other powersets? We're *not* tanks. Our role is not to protect the squishies but to take out as many targets as fast as possible. We're the folks chasing down every minion and 1- or 2-hitting them in rapid succession to more quickly mitigate the total incoming damage to the team. In this light, I feel that focusing on single-target attacks is simply more effective.

But "more effective" is only one dimension of game play. It's satisfying to see a Spin hit 4-5-6 foes and all those pretty orange numbers light up. YMMV.

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On a different tack, some feedback has argued that Acrobatics is worthless when you already have Integration. I'm not going to argue that point other than I've seen some contradictory info about whether Acrobatics stacks or not. And that after 32 I stopped caring to a degree, LOL, because my build was 99% complete and fully functioning. I don't really like *any* of the final pools for 41-50.

I would love it if folks who feel they have the real lowdown would suggest stronger alternatives to my level 35 and 38 power choices, and even suggest level 41-50 power choices that would best complement this type of build and combat approach.

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Well, there is always fighting (tough and weave) although some will say weave is no longer of much use and I won't argue. But, my last /regen scrapper used tough with resilience to have decent combo. Also, you can get provoke to really pull groups off of squishies. And, hasten is always a welcome addition to my toons when slotting permits......

Just a few quick thoughts.

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Unless integration and acrobatics stack (which I don't think they do) then acrobatics seems a wasted power. Is there any additional benefit? Something for PvP maybe?

btw -- claws/regen is an awesome combination, who would have guessed? **coughwolverinecough**

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MoG or Acro at 38?....what would you choose? ;-)

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I wasn't trying to be a smart a$$ or anything, just trying to understand the thought process.

Unless integration and acrobatics stack (which I don't think they do) then acrobatics seems a wasted power. Is there any additional benefit? Something for PvP maybe?

btw -- claws/regen is an awesome combination, who would have guessed? **coughwolverinecough**

I have to agree with Futurias here. It's been 8:00 AM central time as long as I can remember. I personally don't like it when I have a day off from work and they do maintenance either, but I KNOW that is their time slot and it's a possibility.

Look on the bright side. Back in the day (as my Dad used to say) they did DAILY maintenance. At least now it is not very often.

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I think the lesson of The Hollows can be taught without making it a 1.5 mile hike..something like 600-700m would get the same point across without making it mind-numbing at the same time. Plus, the price for failure in this game is usually debt, but at that level its wasting twenty minutes of your playing time...something that they should endeavor to never waste.

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QFT.......... and

from Creole_Ned

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Strangely enough, I learned to play the game just fine before The Hollows even existed. How did I ever manage such a thing?

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also QFT! this one made me laugh and reminded me that there are still other people out there that remember life without the Hollows...........

I said if I died once in every heroic mission I ever did, I would have quit. If they make it like that, then what would be the point in playing? I can see if their goal for some level of debt doing invincible missions, but on the easiest setting? Once a mission? What would they do in invincible missions? Once a mob?

If they nerf this game so much more that even vetran players die routinely in heroic missions, I would bet I would not be the only one that would not find that fun.

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I highly disagree. A defeat ratio is in fact a good idea. It would allow you to get an idea based on some variables to determine how hard your game is to the average user. Getting that statistic would be hard, mind you, but yeah.

There's a difference between a statistic, and how you choose to achieve that statistic. Just because they determine that the average user will die once a heroic mission (which, honestly, I've never heard a dev say), doesn't mean that they can't come up with imaginative level design that the average user will possibly die once too.

There are other ways you can come about to figure out how hard your levels are, of course, but I don't see why coming up with a number on how often the average user will die, would be so bad.

My statistic when soloing? I die once per elite boss. Then I buy a crapton of inspirations and show that elite boss whose... boss

Math != Creativity. You can use one to get the other, or not, they are unrelated.

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The problem, from my perspective, isn't the stat gathering. It's saying that you should die once per heroic mission. By that count and your own admission, you would need an Elite Boss in every heroic mission.

My only point was that I really doubt that that's the stat the dev's are shooting for. If it is, it really will kill the game for most of us.

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If I died once in every mission set on heroic I would have left 2 yrs ago. Someone is saying that is what the Devs are striving for? That's ludicrous. If I'm doing heroic missions and I die once a LEVEL, I'm doing something wrong.

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Except Statsman said jsut that

"one defeat at least at heroic, a hand ful on invincible"

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Just because Statesman said it doesn't make it any less stupid. (not trying to argue with you Neko........)

If heroic is the easiest level, why would they expect everyone to fail at least once a mission? I would not expect to die every mission even when I am set on rugged or unyielding.

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I highly disagree. A defeat ratio is in fact a good idea. It would allow you to get an idea based on some variables to determine how hard your game is to the average user. Getting that statistic would be hard, mind you, but yeah.

There's a difference between a statistic, and how you choose to achieve that statistic. Just because they determine that the average user will die once a heroic mission (which, honestly, I've never heard a dev say), doesn't mean that they can't come up with imaginative level design that the average user will possibly die once too.

There are other ways you can come about to figure out how hard your levels are, of course, but I don't see why coming up with a number on how often the average user will die, would be so bad.

My statistic when soloing? I die once per elite boss. Then I buy a crapton of inspirations and show that elite boss whose... boss

Math != Creativity. You can use one to get the other, or not, they are unrelated.

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The problem, from my perspective, isn't the stat gathering. It's saying that you should die once per heroic mission. By that count and your own admission, you would need an Elite Boss in every heroic mission.

My only point was that I really doubt that that's the stat the dev's are shooting for. If it is, it really will kill the game for most of us.

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If I died once in every mission set on heroic I would have left 2 yrs ago. Someone is saying that is what the Devs are striving for? That's ludicrous. If I'm doing heroic missions and I die once a LEVEL, I'm doing something wrong.

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No power is intended to be effective. If a power does what it appears to do by the description, then it is malfunctioning and needs to be brought in line with the rest of the powers.

I'm curious as to how Whirlwind stacks up against Repel now, since they're similar powers. Is whirlwind substantially more expensive?

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LOL, I love that first line! Sometimes it feels like that way!

As to all the people that keep saying 'chill' and such, well we might if it wasn't a pattern. It seems we constantly have to catch the undocumented changes and force the issue rather than just have them tell us something has changed. It gets very frustrating at times.

And let me add that if this is another of those 'game-breaking' exploits, I have only seen maybe 5 or 10 players use this power in 18 months of play and I have never seen anyone use it to gain 'risk-free' XP.

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My intent was to show that 6 slotting of stamina prior to ED had a much greater return than it does 6 slotting it now.

According to some of the number crunchers on the forums 6 slotting Stamina pre-ED and Post-ED combined with the Global Endurance Reduction are equivalent.

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None of those number crunchers work for the IRS I hope!

I don't see Obsidian Shield in your build. I highly recommend finding room for this as it gives you -sleep, hold and psi. I didn't think I needed it early and then I get a story arc with Lost in it................ enough said? I was cursing in every mission getting held or slept and all my toggles dropping.

Also, I was wondering if anyone has any experience running cloak of fear or opressive gloom? As a dark scrapper, I loved these powers, but how do they work for a brute? They seem to work against building fury.

I don't see Obsidian Shield in your build. I highly recommend finding room for this as it gives you -sleep, hold and psi. I didn't think I needed it early and then I get a story arc with Lost in it................ enough said? I was cursing in every mission getting held or slept and all my toggles dropping.

Also, I was wondering if anyone has any experience running cloak of fear or opressive gloom? As a dark scrapper, I loved these powers, but how do they work for a brute? They seem to work against building fury.

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Cool so I'll take out those end SO's and slot damage and... oh... wait.

lol.

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Well said. Now would this mean there is one LESS thing we need to slot for? Wow, these choices are just staggering.

Here's a free tip from a paying customer.......... Why don't you try and make some actual improvements?

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You are right...that post is way too long. I am not reading it so you can cry about stealth.

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Then why are you reading this thread? It is after all about changes to stealth

Ok, I guess I am in the minority because I don't think burn is overpowered. I don't think it needs to be nerfed. I mean, how many times has it been nerfed already? I have lost count. I thought burn (and the damage that we can do) was compensation for our lack of defenses. Wasn't that the way it has been explained off up till now? Why has it taken a years worth of nerfs to lead up to this? Burn is not new and I don't think that in any way are fire tanks 'abusing an exploit' by using it the way it is on live now.

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I agree with many of the posts that I have read on this particular thread. I think the developers are going too far not only in this change but in all of the changes in their efforts to balance the playing field. I have been playing this game for a long time, and have enjoyed it immensely. Unfortunately, the majority of my ongame friends have decided to quit this game due to the non-ending nerf fest that happens every time their is an update. Increasing the fear was bad enough, but now that you are decreasing the damage of burn and increasing the recharge rate basically makes the fire tank a wimp. Please reconsider the severity of these changes.

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I never though of using the term 'nerf-fest', but how appropriate! I just love how some people seem to be saying "yeah, burn got nerfed.....that'll show those uppity fire tanks". I don't get it. Fire tanks are barely tanks at all. A friend of mine has termed fire tanks as 'scrappers with hit points'. Why would anyone consider the nerfing of our 1 decent power as necessary because we are too powerful? I always thought that fire tanks were squishier than other tanks on purpose......and the trade off was that we could do more damage. Was that not the case? I am really tired of hearing about 'balance'. After reading through almost all the threads for I5, I find very few people in favor of all the nerfs. If the majority of the paying customers (us) don't like the changes, why are they being rammed down our throats? I am really tired of investing time in a character that I enjoy playing AS IS and then being told, sorry we are changing your powers. If you had told us 6 months ago (last time you 'fixed' burn) that it was going to be ruined in the next big update, we might have thought twice about rolling a fire tank at all!

Debt is nothing from levels 5 to 10 so what's the point of that? I just don't see any reason for it.