Birdbird

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Yeah see -- SIR BRUCE ISN'T KEEPING HIS WEBSITE UP SINCE JUNE

And NCSOFT IS JUST ABOUT THE ONLY COMPANY THAT RELEASES ACTUAL NUMBERS LIKE THESE

From the NC Soft Site

User Statistics
Operating Matrix (City of Heroes)
U.S & Europe As of September. 2005

Highest concurrent users
June 04 31,085
Sept 04 26,870
Dec 04 15,741
Mar 05 21,283
June 05 20,911
Sept 05 22,340

Daily access
June 04 69,011
Sept 04 68,073
Dec 04 45,318
Mar 05 56,366
June 05 59,969
Sept 05 59,133

Monthly access
June 04 169,925
Sept 04 163,053
Dec 04 124,435
Mar 05 140,481
June 05 162,922
Sept 05 150,068

So -- let's discuss the actual numbers here, rather than snapping at Stateman's heels.

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Correct me if I am wrong but this is numbers of those who logged in right? So then this would also include the ones who had free trials since they did log in as well. Also being the case meaning those numbers would be boosted because of this.

[/ QUOTE ]The free trials aren't included in the numbers. That was already covered somewhere earlier in this thread. Check the Dev Tracker for Statesman's previous posts, one of them refers to what you're talking about I think.

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I read that but things like daily and monthly make it seem otherwise. Any company can booster its numbers to make it look better. If it was done technically it is true since they were playing but not actually subscribed. If I saw the source of the numbers might make a difference though. I have searched before without any luck.

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Yeah see -- SIR BRUCE ISN'T KEEPING HIS WEBSITE UP SINCE JUNE

And NCSOFT IS JUST ABOUT THE ONLY COMPANY THAT RELEASES ACTUAL NUMBERS LIKE THESE

From the NC Soft Site

User Statistics
Operating Matrix (City of Heroes)
U.S & Europe As of September. 2005

Highest concurrent users
June 04 31,085
Sept 04 26,870
Dec 04 15,741
Mar 05 21,283
June 05 20,911
Sept 05 22,340

Daily access
June 04 69,011
Sept 04 68,073
Dec 04 45,318
Mar 05 56,366
June 05 59,969
Sept 05 59,133

Monthly access
June 04 169,925
Sept 04 163,053
Dec 04 124,435
Mar 05 140,481
June 05 162,922
Sept 05 150,068

So -- let's discuss the actual numbers here, rather than snapping at Stateman's heels.

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Correct me if I am wrong but this is numbers of those who logged in right? So then this would also include the ones who had free trials since they did log in as well. Also being the case meaning those numbers would be boosted because of this.

Not sure if anyone brought up the same issues as ice tanks have about not surviving the alpha strike.

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With Enhancement Diversification comes a benefit for ALL City of Heroes powers.

Every power, across the board, is getting a 13.33% reduction in its Endurance cost.

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Wow so what about the defense and resistance builds that are taking such a hit AGAIN after I5 huh?

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To make a viable Inv tanker we now have to take Invincibilty and 6 slot it. Take Dull Pain and make it Perma. Slot up only Temp Inv and Unyielding and then 6 slots all of aour attacks.

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I don't know who "we" is, but it definitely isn't all players. My Inv has invincibility unslotted and only uses it against large groups, he doesn't even have dull pain, and has RPD and RE slotted up along with TI and Unyielding.

He has no problem soloing on Invincible (except for the expected snails pace in dealing damage) or tanking for large groups.

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Your resists

90 to S/L
38 to T/Ene/Ele
0 to Psi

That's with even level SOs. Hardly enough against any foe that uses mostly non-S/L. I strongly suggest you 6 slot Invincibility with defense and start using it if you plan to fight against foes that don't primarily use S/L. You can claim all you want that you solo Invincibile level missons but you can't be fighting non-S/L foes in numbers or you'd never live on those numbers.

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Agreed, questioning tough hide though and think that might be slotted as well. Needs something to at least offset the defense debuff.

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I feel especially sorry for those poor Fire/Ice tankers and Invuln/anything tankers. In many respects I think you let us down in I5.


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I wouldn't feel too sorry for my Fire/Ice tankers. They were built for team-oriented "true" tanking and control and, quite frankly, they are no less powerful now than they used to be. The only ones you should feel sorry for are those Fire/Ice tankers who were built specifically for Patch-n-Burn powerlevelling techniques.

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My fire/ice tank is my main. I first started him after I did the Synapse TF with a fire/ tank and saw Burn for the first time. Then a couple days later I saw a inv/ice and saw the potential for the combination of the two powers. I didn't make him for power leveling or herding but because I thought it would be fun. Then I started noticing that I wasn't the only one who thought of the combo. I built him in higher levels with only damage being in Burn and with hold and ACC SO's in other skills for AV holding. Now this build is useless and about only thing I can do it help to hold AV but can not contribute to team really. Fire/Ice went from an AOE king to a mere shadow of its former self.

I have not played my fire/ice tank since shortly after I5 patch notes were released because I am hoping that Jack will actually pay attention to his costumers instead of turning a blind eye to anyone that does not approve of the changes. His philosophy of ignore them until they shutup and go away just giving in is quite frankly [censored] insulting.

Jack get your head out of COV and pay attention to your paying costumers who have some issues they believe need addressed. You know the ones who are paying you their $15 a month for you to ignore them.

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First, a big thank you to everyone who played on the Training Room server and helped I5 to be one of our best launches ever! We’re extremely happy about how I5 went live.

Second, we’re still scouring the boards for bugs and other issues, but we’ve finished making large changes to the power sets. We’ll still be looking at issues as the arise. For instance, there are issues with Defense builds; we’re going to look at that problem more carefully (the Damage Resistance Inspirations are a step, but there's a little more to come).

Thanks for all your great feedback!

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So you are happy that most people feel that Burn is useless and are dropping it from their builds? If so then just get rid of the power like has been suggested by many.

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Why are we NOT getting any answers to our questions..........?
Aren't we paying you to answer them......? As I recall, I was charged $15 not so long ago.....as was every other person here on these boards.
The majority of the community(yoiur paycheck) is begging for answers and logic to your changes(which at this point is irrelevant since the games fun-factor has gone down considerably for many of our toons and we simply want our fun back not an explanation at this stage) and you are ignoring your paycheck.....
I'd almost rather know why you're ignoring us than how you think these changes are actually an enjoyable product to peddle...........

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How many times do I have to say it. Too busy with COV to bother with the paying customers here.

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To some up what I think of the burn changes - terrible
For 1 power to be nerfed 3 times (fear added, damage lowered, recharge increased) makes it completly useless, The sole benefit to being a fire tank has been removed, with no benefit added to compensate for it.

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Why is it everyone seems to forget about the AOE change that was part of burn getting majorly neutered from the begining? 4 changes were made to Burn, AOE, Fear, Damage and Recharge. It got hit 4 times not 3.

The answer is rather simple actually, he is too busy working on COV to bother with his paying costumers here on COH.

What most of you fail to realize is that Burn was affected by the AOE limits as well making it unable to do these things anymore. That a a little bit of damage reduction should have been enough. The fear and recharge went too far. Did it need toned down, yes not arguing that one bit. But like most of the changes they had the right idea but in implementing them they went too far. Instead of going with just one idea they went with all they came up with it seems.

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Don't mind me, just a casual gamer giving his feedback.

I would say the inherent problem with ice tanks is the reliance on pure defense, (i'm sure other people have made you well aware of this fact :P) but with little else. My suggestion (that most likely has been suggested) is changing Glacial Armour to be +Res Energy, negative and Psychic damage.

This makes Ice tankers more desirable in the late game, gives them some more resistances (Just fire and ice isn't enough), but still gives them a negative quirk (IE they are going to be hurt more then any other tank if hit by smashing/leathal damage.)

Well thats my two cents.

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I was actually thinking about this the other day but if you added resitance like that then they would have to add at least a little bit of defense to fire, like remove Burn and add a passive tough hide like skill.

It occured to me after thinking over fire tanks in general and how they are "too" powerful that fire has some pretty clear disavantages compared to the other sets

Number one
Blazing Aura is only taunt based aura and is not auto hit. Unlike Mud Pots, Chilling Embrace and Invincibility.

Number two
Healing Flames is the only one of four that does not boost hit points. Dull Pain, Hoarfrost and Earth's Embrace all add 40%.

Number three
No defense is the set whatsoever.

Number four
One of the main issues I see people having is no resistance to knockback and immobolization protect built into toggles. Wet Ice, Rooted and Unyielding all have these.

Number five
Rise of the Phoenix, in order to use the highest power you must first die in order to do so.

And now number six
Burn the only major advantage held by fire tanks is now gone. If some of these other things were changed I would be fine with Burn in its current state because I just won't take it and rely on combat jumping even more then I do now.

Yes we have consume and fiery embrace so basicly two buildup, neither of which add to Burns damage, but the endurance cost alone of the powers required for fiery aura. Blazing Aura, Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, Combat Jumping, Acrobatics, Tough and Weave are endurance hogs when combined so we need that extra boost of endurance. Sure some don't take Tough and Weave but in order to max out smashing and lethal and have at least some defense they are needed.

We need to take 3 powers in leaping pool, 3 in fitness and 3 in fighting. Then Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, Blazing Aura, Healing Flames and Consume. Total of 14 powers and between 35-45 slots depending on if you slot Blazing Aura and Consume. Then most tanks take conserve power so another 5 there and to keep that up and other powers quicker 5 in hasten so total of 45-55 now. So having Burn 6 slotted for damage would make that 50-60 out of 67 total slots and having 14 powers required, not including hasten, conserve, taunt, burn or the first power of melee set for that matter so 19 with those added out of 24 powers with 50-60 slots used up. Not all that much room for extra attack power.

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Gang,

Decided to give Permafrost a protection against Slow instead of Toxic...

And we've tweaked Hibernate so that your toggles won't drop anymore!

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I can always count on Statesman to find an excuse for me not to take a power. I was worried that I may have to fit Permfrost into my build, well not anymore. Thanks Statesman.

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What?? You are speaking as if no one takes Permafrost or Temp Protection for that matter because they are useless. Say it ain't so please! Anything but that.

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Post deleted by Jex_QACC

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Wanted to explain the reasons for changing Burn...

It became apparent that Burn was the trump power...with it, a Tanker needed to do nothing else. He could lay down a Burn patch and Taunt foes in and out of it. The damage was so great that the Burn patch itself would do the defeating; the Tanker only needed to hit Taunt.

The question has come up - "what's the point of Burn now?" Well, it still offers Immobilization defense (we're actually going to increase that duration). And Burn does do a lot of damage. Taunt alone might not bring mobs into Burn continually, but stunning, holding, immobilizing mobs in Burn is just plain devastating.

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Like I said in the pm I sent to you, get rid of it and replace it with a passive defense bonus like tough hide and add resistance to immobolization and knockback to it so that fire tanks are not required to take three powers in the leaping pool just to get the same resistances that other tanks have in their natural build. Because in order to make fire tanks balanced with other tanks I see this as the best solution.

Agree with most here scrap the whole thing and make it add defense or resistance since it is called defiance to begin with. I would much rather prefer it add resistance based on damage from 100% health. I also do see this as a gimmick and not a solution. Mez protection is what blasters lack since they are the ones pulling the aggro too often without a tank and now even more since tanks can't aggro like they could before. And this whole tell a healer not to heal you is simply insane. You all do realize that without any resistance blasters take a couple hundred points of damage a shot normally? By the time you are in the 40% range you are usually dead within the next hit so it is pointless.

My blaster used to have 20 defense which was at least something but now with the insanity that is issue 5 global defense drop he has like 1.5 to 2.5 depending on what combat jumping is now. So getting hit about 90% more then what he did does not make up for the little bit of drop in enemies accuracy. Nor does it make up for the defiance "boost" or the hit points boost. Blasters are gonna be taking more face plants then they used to in issue 4. Just rename the AT to face plant and get it over with.

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About AVs... That's a way to do it, but let me asure you that that option (Just like this whole I5 fiasco) it's just going to come back to bite you in the [censored].

And like I said many times before: Being 1 shotted by an AV is not that big of a problem as long as you have a good team with you and the AV is not higher then +2 to us, being 2-3 shotted is! And I5 is doing nothing to fix that! If anything it's just going to get worse... Unless of course you can get "the perfect team build", but with that "perfect team build" you have no use for a tanker.

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My level 44 fire/ice was almost one shotted by a level 41 Clockwork king. Put me into the red zone and I have Portal Jockey and Freedom Phalanx for hit points boost. There might have been a few more that hit me at once since I didn't see the number. All I know is I had to hit Healing Flames as quick as possible. I should have looked at the numbers afterwards on combat but I only just thought of it just now as I was typing so this either proves your point or validates mine.

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I know I'm supposed to only reply once here, but it just occurred to me - statesman keeps implying that defense/resist SOs are 33% (he seemed to in the sonic debuff thread, and then again here).

Is THAT the basis by which all defense/resist powers were reduced for issue 5? That they were supposedly getting a much larger boost from SOs? 33% versus 20% IS a big deal - a 120% boost versus a 200% boost for something six slotted.


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A VERY interesting point and something that really needs to be looked at as well as numerous PMs need to be sent asking this question as well to make sure it is seriously looked into.

Pretty obvious that Burn is not really liked so how about getting rid of it completely? Instead I prepose a tough hide like defense power passive as tough hide is as well, nothing major but add some knockback and immobolize resistance here or place it on Plasma shield and make it not required to get leaping pool because if you want to balance tanks then fire should not be required to get combat jumping and acrobatics since the other tanks have these resistances in their respective armor sets.

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One shotting by AV's. In a word, you are ALL correct. It's not a good thing for an Ice Tanker to be leveled by a single blow. So we're going back and changing the damage done by AV's so that it's no longer possible for a Tanker to be one shotted.

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In regards to this I assume you will adjust it so the psionic based AV's Clockwork King, Mother Mayhem, Malaise, Babbage, Carnie AV's, can not one shot or tear a tank to shreds faster then one or two healers can heal? Because it will not always be possible for a team to get an assortment of defenders that will be needed as it stands in issue 5. All tanks get shreded and fire more so since they have no defense and what little defense we could get, weave, is now utterly pointless to get or slot as it stands.

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I've seen more than a few people crying for Ice Tankers to have their own place to give feedback. And since we've already planned to change Unyielding some, a few think we're ignoring Ice in favor of Invulnerabilty. So I wanted to start this thread.

Here's a couple of changes coming that I think will help:

Reduced Accuracy of Minion level Turrets from 75% to 58%.
Reduced Accuracy of Lieutenant level Turrets from 94% to 65%.
Reduced Accuracy of Boss level Turrets from 113% to 75%.
Reduced Accuracy of Snipers from 75% to 65%.
Reduced Accuracy of Archvillains from 90% to 75%.
Reduced Accuracy of Giant Monsters from 90% to 75%.
Reduced Accuracy of Monument Minions from 75% to 58%.
Reduced Accuracy of Rularuu Bosses from 90% to 75%.


BIG thanks to Circeus, for his tireless devotion to all that is Ice Tankerish. Hip hip hooray!

PLEASE keep the discussion limited to Ice Tankers. Anything else will be removed.

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Anyone else think this isn't addressing the issue of ice tanks pretty much suck and should get a boost and not nerfed to worse crap then they were? Since these changes "help" every AT and not just ice tanks?