Aura_Familia
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:If they need to do maintenance they need to do it. Period.Originally Posted by Vega
If there is another extended maintenance period this week, I think that I will begin to re-evaluate my loyalty to this game.
I'd rather they do it BEFORE the servers get to the point where they then need a week to fix them. -
Quote:I agree.Originally Posted by SwellGuy
I'd allow the Premies the alpha slot if they bought Going Rogue. That would probably entice them to want the rest of the incarnate system and thereby subscribe.
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Quote:This on the other hand I don't agree with. I think it's fine that we now get to pick and choose what we're willing to pay for. Had I had the choice I never would have paid for Dual Pistols.Originally Posted by The_Prismist
Personally I do think its a travesty that VIPs are not receiving future powersets for free and I think this should be added to the VIP list of things they get for free. However, there are still a ton of reasons to subscribe.
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Quote:For the record I'd be fine with an Incarnate License ONLY for Premiums, NOT free players, or allowing premiums to play with the alpha slot. Not trials though.Originally Posted by Forse
Nope, sorry Dechs, I agree with Je-saist in spirit. We might have different ideas on where to draw the line, since I've not fully decided yet, but offering some of the content of Incarnates (even if only to previous GR buyers) is a good idea.
No amount of marketting blurb or word of mouth can replace experiencing something. The incarnate system is another level of gameplay. You should be able to experience some of it, and want more of it.
That is a sustainable business idea.
Putting the best toys in a VIP lounge so that the Premiums can see and never, ever play with them?
That just leads to them finding ways to be perfectly content with what they have.
Because if you never had something, you can't miss it. -
Quote:When I see FINANCIAL info from actually RELEVANT MMO publishers then we can talk. until then useless article.Originally Posted by Death_Badger
You obviously fail drastically at reading, or did you simply choose to ignore the comments from other publishers below that article
The data in there does not a trend make.
I don't consider stuff like Zynga to be relevant to discussion at hand.
They don't make mmos.
the ones that have gone free to play recently would need to put up their data to show that their overall revenue decreased.
And since every day more and more mmos are going to a hybrid F2p model, I think your assertion that the trend is to make less money with them, is FALSE.
EDIT: Also this post from one of the people there, speaks VOLUMES:
As I stated, more DATA needed before ANYONE can assert trends about Hybrid F2P or even F2P models.Quote:These numbers are meaningless as you can't compare most games directly.
There are many types of F2P games: session-based games, standalone social worlds, mmorpg games with item malls, mmorpg games with single virtual currencies. All of them have different values, be it ARPU, ARPPU, active to regs, price of reg, retention, etc.
Then you start taking into account other things, well...
There's number of online players per game. Is it per server or per shard? Or total? Peak or average? Does your peak and average includes actives and fresh new regs as well?
Active players - is it 2 weeks old number or 1 month old? Regs - do you purge db or not, etc?
How old is your game? What is your active churn rate, how often updates are pulled in, session time, etcetc.
And then the biggest question - WHAT IS YOUR USER COST.
I could go on and on, but it all doesn't make sense, you can't compare apples to oranges, unless you are really comparing 2 equal games, e.g. both are MMORPG games with real F2P (no premium features, players could earn all money without paying) in the same region (as ARPU between Germany and China will fluctuate by tens of percents for the same game after a year of running). And then it comes to the science of game design to determine the reason of the higher/lower ARPU.
F2P game revenue evaluation is a science where you should evaluate layers of profits inside the game and really know what you are talking about.
Now, spend 5 days playing 50 different mmo games and filter out 10 money-worthy out of them
Write me a mail, I'm looking for Country Managers in Europe to work with the games that have a lot of money - anatoly at astrumonline dot ru
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Quote:Good policy, as what's pushed to live trumps what's going on during beta trumps what's said by a dev during a marketing demonstration.Originally Posted by Lucky666
You know your absolutely correct no sarcasm. Im just gonna ignore anything the devs say anymore. Period. Save my self the head ache.
Don't take rocket science to figure that out.
I NEVER take what the devs say before something hits beta as gospel, as anything and everything are subject to change during BETA. -
Quote:I would not have been opposed to this. Especially since it's the only additional "increase in power" that premiums have since Incarnates are not available to them.Originally Posted by DumpleBerry
However, as far as opining for a drastic change...I entirely agree with Mr. DJ. There should have been some manner of "forgiveness" or "grace protection" for Premiums with IO builds. Let them function, perhaps, but no longer allow them to be slotted. That way, they stay where they're at unless you mess around with them. -
Quote:Which was changed in beta. so that on live GR included NONE of the Incarnate system.Originally Posted by Death_Badger
I can quite clearly see on those pictures you posted that it states Going Rogue includes one incarnate level.
I have never argued that it included more than the Alpha slot.
Your point? -
Quote:Actually that's not what the article says. They talk about one specific publisher. Unless I'm mistaken that article talks about ONE mmo developer. How you got "but the overall revenue per customer will drop. That is the trend that exists in most F2P games" is beyond me.Originally Posted by Death_Badger
Actually I think the model here will succeed in increasing the revenue per paying customer, but the overall revenue per customer will drop. That is the trend that exists in most F2P games
Very informative article here
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/featur...ewards_of_.php
A trend requires more than one data point to show. -
Quote:To the first bolded point, I don't think it's a properly designed random path in any way shape or form. (But that's a persona view, so I won't get into that)Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I would argue that there are no pitfalls in a properly designed random determination system. Which I believe we have here. I think the devs only error with Incarnates was the madness of creating a system that rewards 'participation' when participation is very hard to determine given the different abilities players can bring to bear.
Random systems remove the 'grindy' feeling IMO. There's nothing more tedious than knowing exactly what you're going to get every time you do something. The chance to always get something amazing is what makes this a game and not work. It's what makes poker and blackjack and even Monopoly fun. Random chance means that a casual player can keep up and even surpass the 'hardcore' player at times. It levels the playing field more than anything.
If there were no random components given at the end of the trials, there's no reason to believe that the devs would set the deterministic path any more favorably than they do now. And then it would be immensely grindy and boring. Because you would need 5 days and 20 trials minimum to get a VR component, where now Lady Luck can favor you on your first trial.
That's a substantially better deal IMO.
To the seconded bolded point, i don't think that would be immensely grindy or boring, at least not for a majority of the player base. Some players like being able to determine what they get when they get it. I'd argue most players don't find that tedious. Which is why when merits came out versus the random roll, many people praised it as they could save up their merits and get exactly what they want. It's also why many folks praised them for added a deterministic way to get purples and pvp ios.
I think you're mistaken if you think most players prefer random over the a determined path. What both you and I like has been shown repeatedly not to be the case with this playerbase on the forums. I have no dobut (but ofcourse no proof) that most players would prefer a determined path over a random one. -
Quote:No, start at 6:02. He talks about Incarnates as part of Issue 19. Unless I missed something Issue 19 was NOT GR.Originally Posted by Death_Badger
As i posted previously
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NT9O0...525&lf=mh_lolz
check the video at around 6:40
Positron's presentation at PAX.
And 6:19 it says you get a TASTE of the Incarnate system in GR.
And regardless everything is subject to change in Beta. Which it did.
What we ended up with on live is that the Incarnates were not a part of GR. -
Quote:I have no idea what you're talking about as it's never worked like that.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Is your position actually that Premium players who PAID, please note that word *PAID* for GR and recieved Incarnate access like we did in the good old days [when you paid for GR = Incarnate access] - that those who PAID would all cancel their subs en masse as a result, and this would cause the game to fail?
Are you serious? Because that looks like a pretty wide leap of logic to me. But ok.
I guess.
As has been shown repeatedly in this thread Incarnates weren't a part of GR. -
Quote:NCsoft cares. They've shown they won't hesitate to shutdown any game that suddenly stops making as much money.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
As long as people were spending money on the game, who cares if they subscribe? SPENDING MONEY. That is the key concept.
Free players are out in a hinterland of their own making. However Premiums who PAY FOR THINGS should actually go all hog-wild and get what they paid for, capische? Or not....?
Having most or all subscribers suddenly stop subscribing would be all the signal needed for NCsoft to cut the cord. That publisher doesn't play.
And subscribers are currently going hog wild. There is a thread on here with SUBSCRIBERS dropping $100 or more on the store on the first day.
I think Paragon Studios has hit the jackpot with their hybrid model.
Your version (I believe) would cause the game to be shutdown.
Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. -
Quote:So if Incarnates were included for not paying for the game, what would be the incentive to subscribe?Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Yeah, heaven forfend anyone think that literally years of loyally subbing to a game - with real money, no less - entitles them to a few perks. That kinda thinking has to stop and the sooner the better! *facepalm*
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Also they have been saying for MONTHS now that Incarnates are VIP only perk.
I'm not really sure how anyone missed that since it isn't the first time it's been discussed. -
Quote:Very silly, as I don't know where this was stated when Freedom was announced. Each account is independent of the other.Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Amazing. See, what apologists are missing is that people like me were already spending money to bring our second accounts up to speed. Operative word: WERE.
But since buying GR anyways now denies Premium players the main point of GR - the Incarnate system - that's money that the game wont be getting out of me.
I have no incentive to spend money on stuff that might be arbitrarily redacted at any moment, i.e. GR no longer = access to Incarnate content today - who knows what else tomorrow? [And despite the metric crapton of backpedaling I see here, back in the day if you didn't have GR = no Incarnate access.]
People with this mindset will end up costing the game money.
Silly me, I had this idea that my having maintained a VIP account for almost 6 years meant that my secondary account might get a perk or two along the way. Thank goodness I now know differently.
That's like saying that perks from a 7 year account should transfer to something that was just made 3-4 months ago.
People with this mindset will end up costing the game money.
FYI, I recently got a 2nd account in early September. I'm maintaining that as a premium and getting various perks for it via points, purchase here and there.
So I'm giving the game more money.
I doubt I'm the only one doing this.
EDIT: Also they've stated for MONTHS that Incarnates would ONLY be available to VIPs. -
Quote:That, that right there is /thread.Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Basically, the people complaining that they can't keep everything when they stop paying their subscription are being remarkably short-sighted.
No one pays = no more game. Then you won't be playing anything at all for free because it will have ceased to exist. -
Quote:I read it and disagree that it's a lie.Originally Posted by Lucky666
Nearly is a lie too, please go back and read Samual Tow posts very informative stuff.
They shoulda just said "keep some of the stuff you paid for"
As I said I agree that it should have been clear. Which Sam says. No where does Sam assert it's a lie.
If Incarnates is one of the things missing, yeah that's nearly everything you paid for.
And this is what the actual page says:
http://na.cityofheroes.com/en/news/f...player_cho.phpQuote:Returning Players Become Premium Players
We honor your commitment and experience! If you used to play City of Heroes, you will automatically become a premium player. New free players can become premium players by buying any amount of Paragon Points.
Get everything that free players get.
Retain nearly everything you already purchased or unlocked, including Super Boosters, expansions, and directly purchased character slots.
Retain all the Veteran Rewards you earned.
Under the Returning players tab. -
Quote:Except for the word NEARLY.Originally Posted by Lucky666
It's already been linked to in this very thread "keep everything you paid for" try to keep up Samual Tow linked it.
If that aint lying well then I don't know what is.
ps I am staying vip doesnt affect me dozen or so times I say it I just hate lies and wish nothing but the truth.
Not at all a lie.
Not clear enough sure. I'll give you that. -
Quote:Except with everything shown what you just stated is absolute nonsense.Originally Posted by Lucky666
I don't want them to give incarnates to non vips I just want them to admit they lied. LOL like that will ever happen
people on the internet actually admitting their wrong ya right.
They didn't lie.
I think enough evidence has been given to show that.
But you can keep your tin foil on tighter if you like. -
Quote:Post that page if you can find it. I'd like to see what was stated also.Originally Posted by CactusBrawler
You do people from the EU could not purchase from Gamestop/Amazon right? We had to get it directly from NCsoft, so yeah if some one can get the archived page for the EU store, from March 2010 (the 2nd specificly) that would show what it was I bought.
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Quote:I agree. EDIT: On those pages I could not find one mention of the word Incarnate. /thread.Originally Posted by TonyV
No, but here are a few more sources:
Amazon.com page for Going Rogue
Gamestop page for Going Rogue
Edit:
Of course, I don't know why I'm even putting this out there. It seems to me that there is compelling evidence that the Incarnate System is not part of the marketing of Going Rogue. Was it ever a part of the marketing? Well, it's damn near impossible to prove a negative assertion like that, so really, the onus is on you to prove the positive assertion that it was. The ball is in your court to find evidence now, not us.
Also, this whole argument is silly, based upon the initial premise that the "if you've paid for it, you'll still have access to it" rule-of-thumb was, in fact, some sort of legal guarantee. It wasn't. It was exactly that--a rule-of-thumb that mostly holds true. It's really disgusting to me that, even if the Incarnate System were part of Going Rogue (which, for the record, I'm not stipulating), people are taking one exception to the rule out of a hundred and using that one thing to say that premium players "got screwed."
I'm sorry, but that's stupid. Premium players get to play the game for free and get access to damn near everything in it. Regardless of any one or two things in the game that they don't get access to, to say that they're getting "screwed" is the height of entitlement and arrogance. -
Quote:Yep. Leave them as is. However, making any more similar to Keyes would be a mistake.Originally Posted by SilverAgeFan
Now that we have a trial that feels quite opposite from Keyes in the Underground Trial, I'm pretty okay with how it currently works. I think both represent outliers of fun and challenging, getting praise from harder core players and something for others to try once or twice.
I don't know if the game should have many more carbon copies of these particular trial dynamics. But I think they should exist in some rare form again as unique outliers of gameplay. -
LOL server status page says they are up. Might be the login server.
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Quote:. . .Originally Posted by Xanatos
Zwilarious
Zwill, don't forget to copyright the above.