Another_Fan

Originally Posted by Obitus

Yeah, and in any case, sets like Crushing Impact have inflated by an insignificant amount in comparison with players' earning power.

As noted previously, ~50 million per day is basically guaranteed if you spend half an hour a day running Tips, on one character. Based on the OP's premise, 50 million was a lot of money a few years ago.

Now as before, that 50 million is enough to buy several sets of Crushing Impact (or similar). Proportional increases are useful when measuring inflation, but they're only relevant to the extent that the increase is numerically significant. Even if Crushing Impact (and the like) had gone up 300% (which they haven't in my experience), 300% of a very small number is still a small number when earning power has gone up for the average player by a factor of five or more.

Likewise, even the highly desirable Rare proc enhancements (Luck of the Gambler, Miracle, Numina) haven't risen so much in price that they outpace earning power. Yes, they're more expensive on average than they used to be, but in comparison with the ~70 million you might have paid before, the ~200 million you'll have to pay now is actually less valuable. Nevermind that Alignment Merits give you quick access to those previously-thought-to-be-high-end items without even touching the market.

So again, we clearly have inflation. No one's disputed that. The question is whether that inflation is a widespread problem, and that's pretty clearly not the case -- not yet anyway. Happily, the effect of inflation seems to be drawn disproportionately to the highest of high-end items (purples, PvP IOs) as if by a magnet. In the meanwhile, wages continue to keep the pace, which is in stark contrast with what happens in the real world when massive inflation hits an economy.

Originally Posted by Rylas

Hmm, I checked one of the CI Triples at multiple levels, and saw a consistent 3-5 million range. I'll post pics in the morning when I have PS to help me splice them into one image.

Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood

People are paying 10million but they aren't actually being listed for that:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...67&postcount=2

Prices on the market tend to be somewhat sticky, people bid within the last 5 without even trying to bid creep.

Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight

Ever play a Fire/Fire or a Rad/Fire? My Rad/Fire can put out about 50% more damage in 11 seconds of casting time than you can get with Trip Mine, Time Bomb, Aim and RoA and it can kick that kind of damage out every 30 seconds, and the lions share of that damage is from the secondary. Fire/Fire does it faster because Breath of Fire, Fireball, and Rain of Fire animate in less time than Iradiate, Electron Haze, and Neutron Bomb.

Originally Posted by Intrinsic

The only reason you'd want to use that definition is if your characters had to report their incomes and needed to follow U.S. GAAP. FASB acknowledges that it's an arbitrary number. Also, the Wiki entry that Graystar linked is wrong in that IASB doesn't use a set amount, but lists possible criteria that can indicate hyperinflation. And, as I said in my initial post, many of those criteria simply cannot exist in CoH's economy.

Originally Posted by UberGuy

Again, hyperinflation suggests that we cannot trust the value of our currency to such an extent that we feel it's worthless. It's been mentioned that we can trust the value of inf to decline, and based on what we know of current and predicted changes in our ability to defeat foes, I agree with that. But there is a difference in expecting the value to inf to fall due to inflation and expecting our inf to rapidly become worthless.

We can't ignore the real world relationships here. The whole point of why people care about defining hyperinflation is because, in the real world, salaries and other earnings do not generally react quickly to hyperinflation. If the price of bread doubles every week, but so does your salary and your returns on investments, then there's not much of a problem. It's when the price of bread doubles every week and your salary doesn't change that there's a serious issue.

Market prices have been on the rise because player non-market income has been on the rise due to steady and long-term increase in our combat effectiveness, the reward given by our foes, or both, and not all those means of producing inf faster translate directly into producing recipes faster. Increasing the amount of money tossed at the market faster than the amount of stuff the money is buying yields price inflation.

Originally Posted by Rylas

So, inflation should only be determined off of the prices of very rare items? Not the market as a whole?


I'm not even anywhere near "expert knowledge" of the inner workings of the market, but really, if I can make it work for me, anyone can make it work. If you're hung up on the prices of purples and PVP IOs, then go out and farm for them through the methods available. It's really not that hard. Or, do you simply prefer the dig-your-heels-in-the-ground-and-pout method?

Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight

You can all ready do this....... every ~180 seconds with SOs and Hasten.

It takes planning, timing, and a bit of luck to do it. It also takes 25ish seconds to pull off (my Arch/Dev does this all the time). You place the time bomb behind the spawn, the trip mine in front of the spawn on a caltrop patch and then back away to 90 feet, hit Aim and RoA just as the Time Bomb starts flashing faster.

The Boom and RoA hit at the same time. The KB propels any still living mobs on to the Trip Mine for a spawn finishing Boom. Stragglers are easily finished off with Fistfull or Explosive.

Oh, that's too much you say? Strangely enough you can do that same amount of damage in 8.5 seconds with Aim, RoA, Fistfull, Explosive, Fistfull plus you get another 10%ish damage from defiance.

With the above set up for Time Bomb and Trip Mine the huge defiance buffs from those powers wear off long before Time Bomb explodes, essentially providing no benefit. If you fire off RoA before the defiance buff wears off none of the mobs will be in Time Bomb radius when it finally goes off or you'll have killed all the mobs. Numerically you are better off dropping Time Bomb at your feet and ignoring it, and using the 52% defiance buff on your AoE salvo (it lasts 15 seconds). You "might" catch a boss in the explosion if you (or it, depending on the boss) can survive the 15 seconds to detonation.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

Purple set are MEANT to be rare. Basing whether their is or isn't hyperinflation based on their prices (and RMT for christ's sake) is a seriously flawed argument.

Originally Posted by FourSpeed

I too, disagree with the hyperinflation assessment.

First of all, there are clear cut segments where there isn't (and can't be)
*any* inflation at all, nevermind hyperinflation.

These include the obvious TO/DO/SOs, tier 1 inspirations, and even common
IO recipes. Zero inflation at all.

Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight

I won't give you Time Bomb at all. Scrapper Shield charge is in a defense set, it has a 90 second base recharge, it does 113 damage per attack in a 20 foot radius, it's easily self buffed with AAO (let alone with build up) to double that amount of damage, has an identical chance to do Knockback, and has an un-interruptible 1.5 second cast time.

LRM is a blaster ancillary power. It has a 240 second recharge, does 155 damage, it can be buffed by both Aim and Build up, and launched at the mobs from snipe range (or farther with proper slotting/energy secondary/Incarnate powers).

Time bomb has a 360 second recharge, can't be buffed by powers in the primary or secondary (the buff from Aim doesn't last long enough, nor do the ticks from Targeting Drone ), and does 278 un-enhanced.

RoA by comparison does 225 with a recharge of 60 seconds, 4 second cast time, range 90 feet, and buffable with Aim and Build up.

Time Bomb doesn't even come close in comparison.

Cloaking device is barely better than a single IO and it costs endurance to use (and is therefore suppressed by mez). A serious buff is in order.

The devs know Gun Drone sucks that's why they gave Malta a version that works.....

Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight

I have a better idea.

1. Web Grenade: Untouched.
2. Caltrops: Untouched.
3. Taser: Untouched.
4. Targeting Drone: Add a 10% global damage buff to the owner to make up for the lack of the aim power OR program it so that it affects pets and pseudo pets belonging to the caster so that it actually helps you with a good chunk of your secondary powers. Making it so that it doesn't suppress when mezzed so that it actually works with defiance would be a nice touch too.
5. Smoke Grenade: Remove the to hit check roll from the debuff portion of the power. Having it check twice is double dipping and makes the power suck far more than it should.
6. Cloaking Device: Double the stealth and defense values.
7. Trip Mine: 1 second cast time. Remove the interrupt.
8. Time Bomb: 2 second cast time. 4 second count down. Remove the interrupt.
9. Gun Drone: Replace with Malta version. (ie: 1 second cast time, no interrupt, the gun drone stays until destroyed.)

Originally Posted by UberGuy

I disagree.

I do not have a lack of confidence in holding inf, which seems to be a key component of functional hyperinflation. I know several people who post here do, and I think they're silly. I hold billions of inf in reserve. I don't hold only inf, but I do hold it, and in large amounts. If I avoided high end enhancers, I could fund dozens of level 50 builds with the cash I have at hand.

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

It could be an iron fist in a velvet glove flipping you off - only one hand would be used, of course, as the other would be needed for slapping your face.

Originally Posted by Eva Destruction

If you get that many shards you will probably generate more than 100 mil getting them.

Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha

No, not really.


I've already addressed the 'One Notice Per Week' point, which is (or at least should be) very, very easy to counter with the limitation mechanics already in game.

Originally Posted by Golden Girl

I was meaning more from the point of view that if the area between the battleship, the hosptial and Statesman's ship was turned into a sort of Longbow/military area, then having brawling Tsoo and Family inside the compound might be a bit silly

Originally Posted by Leandro

How many of those shards are from Hami raids or Apex/Tin Mage? How many from defeating EBs in ITFs? How much do you team?

The number was assuming only boss defeats, and solo, because those were the parameters requested. A team can steamroll bosses and EBs much faster.

Originally Posted by Leandro

If we go by the drop rate numbers in ParagonWiki, in order to get 480 shards for the Very Rare from scratch, it would take:

480,000 minions -or- 72,000 lieutenants -or- 24,000 bosses -or- 6,528 mitos

I don't know what to add to those numbers, other than "that's a lot".

Edit: okay, I thought of something to add. Let's say you want to get the shards by hunting bosses, for example in PI by Portal Corp. Let's say you are a capable build that can defeat a boss in under a minute, and travel to another boss before the minute is over; it'd take 24,000 minutes to get all the shards you need. That's 400 hours, or 4 times longer than it takes to level to 50.