Another_Fan
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Its a great set if you aren't a blaster.
It has an AoE that is made for scourge.
Long cool down AoE control power
Damage amplifying mechanic that delays you from doing full damage.
Aim type power that doesn't give you a full damage bonus but does magnify control effects.
I'd love to have it as a dom assault set but for my blasters ? not so much -
Quote:True enough I must have gone a little cross eyed. But either way I can't see a small damage advantage outweighing the advantages a buff/debuff character brings to the team or for soloing.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
If you are going to use my suggested corruptor value of 0.9, you really ought to use my suggested blaster value 1.25 in your comparison.
1.25/(.9*1.3)=1.07
So do aim and build up. Sleet and Heat loss provide instant mitigation and in heat loss's case a team buff as well as the debuff.Quote:Dropping Sleet onto a pack of enemies takes over two seconds. It is an awesome power and I use it constantly on my Cold defender (Heat Loss adds another 2+ seconds, but is on a longish recharge), but it does eat up units of time.
Are we really talking about having 2 sleets/spawn vs having 1 sleet and blaster ?Quote:Granting a blaster can unleash their AoEs a second or two sooner than the corruptor, what does that mean? The corruptor took the extra time to deal similar damage to the blaster, and now both have to continue attacking (unless they were able to spawn melt). Of course, teamed, that same 1.3 from Sleet applies to the blaster attacks and the blaster never has to spend time animating Sleet; I think the team factor matters just as much as the solo factor.
Teamed the debuff is even more powerful and that ignores the fact that 2 colds are going to do insane things to the teams defense. -
Quote:I wouldn't make that conclusion. There was considerably more going on. I think its pretty safe to say that going rogue and f2p didn't result in a net influx of players into the game.Originally Posted by PrincessDarkstar
I just double checked your figures.
Incarnates released on 05 April 2011, so the sales figures from that count in the large boom of 2011, then the sales figures go down to less than they were before that, and stay pretty steady at that level.
So basically incarnates drove away almost half a million dollars per quarter of sales?
Am I the only one seeing that?
Edit: At the very least that shows there was huge interest in incarnate stuff, and it failed quite dramatically to hold anyones additional attention.
My own thought is that I18 further fragmenting a game with an already declining population was a bad idea. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Diellan_
Precisely.
This is exactly why I want this power adjusted. Edge case poorly balanced powers cause all kinds of issues that make the entire set difficult to adjust, and need to be nerfed.
It's funny I read that in a quote and thought you were referring to the snipe changes. Which are creating exactly that situation. -
Quote:Well that was unexpected. (no not really)Originally Posted by Reppu
Sales lower over time?! SAY IT ISN'T SO!
No, seriously. I don't see anything out of the normal here. -
Quote:Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Well, I've never really thought the damage was as close as people make it out to be, especially when you add in the melee attacks.
1.125 / .75 = 1.5
1.125 / .65 = 1.73
1.25 / .9 = 1.39
1.25 / .8 = 1.56
Corruptors creep 8% closer and defenders dance 11% closer. That seems enough to be materially closer, so your concern exists, but I don't believe it to be a large move closer.
I find 39% more than corruptors and 56% more than defenders to still be a strong spread, and that is before adding in the melee DPA.
You have left out the effect of the corruptor and defender secondaries.
For example a cold domination corruptor can achieve a 1.6 multiplier (from heat loss and sleet)
So you would have
for AoE
1.125/(.9*1.3)= .96
for ST
1.125/(.9*1.6) = .78
That is before scourge -
Quote:Should it be* ? not by a longshot.Originally Posted by Reppu
A lot less damage. Keep in mind how long Bonfire needs to do it's full salvo of damage. Will it be changed, though? Hard to say. Bonfire APP has such a long base cooldown.
Would I be surprised if it was? Not entirely.
*Refers to changed -
Interesting
Code:http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/earnings.aspxCity of Heroes sales in millions of won 2008 2nd Q 3rd Q 4th Q 2009 2nd Q 3rd Q 4th Q 2010 2nd Q 3rd Q 4th Q 2011 2nd Q 3rd Q 4th Q 2012 5,416 5,743 6,193 6,865 6,837 6,673 5,471 3,928 3,348 3,491 5,709 3,239 3,051 2,787 2,812 3,435 2,890 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 1st Q 5,416 6,837 3,348 3,051 2,890 2nd Q 5,743 6,673 3,491 2,787 3rd Q 6,193 5,471 5,709 2,812 4th Q 6,865 3,928 3,239 3,435
I am sure someone will be able to explain how these should be considered a positive. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Arcanaville
If the interrupt window was removed completely, permanently, for blasters and I had to set the DPA of the sniper blasts under that condition, I would today probably set them to about 1.3-1.4 DS/sec given the context they live in now. That's *without* the disadvantage of ever reverting to interruptible.
That would certainly be better than what is proposed now. Really the time to put in complications for blasters in general would be after they are doing reasonably well. Putting in strange mechanisms now will just muddy the waters
Also devices has a method in place for improving snipes performance that could be leveraged to help out the set more. -
Quote:Originally Posted by EvilGeko
So $4 for 8 hours of easily perma fast snipes. The amplifiers are out. That's cheap enough that it MIGHT be worth it.
LOL the money blaster. Why not just have a skill that lets you burn points for DPS ? -
Quote:Have to agree about the snipes being too powerful with the proposed changes. With the changed animation time they become signature powers for the sets that have them, and are so good they would actually get in the way of better or more desirable fixes for the blaster AT.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
After stewing on the snipe changes, I think the current proposed snipes are TOO strong. Blast sets need improvement and snipes definitely need help, but this change focuses too much buff into one power/mechanic.
I would propose that the fast snipe animation times all have 1 second added back in (but still no interrupt).
Those that would have been 0.67, become 1.67 (1.848 arcanatime).
1 second becomes 2 (2.244)
1.33 seconds becomes 2.33 (2.508)
1.67 seconds becomes 2.67 (2.904)
This allows the animation to look nicer, still allows the snipes to have very solid DPA, while not focusing quite so much improvement into just one power (and the one to-hit mechanic).
Other stuff should be done to help range sets as well, of course, but I think the snipes would be much more reasonably positioned at the animation times I listed.
I don't know that I agree with adding a flat amount of time to all snipes, it would seem to be better to standardize all of the snipes at a fixed activation time for the fast snipe. -
Quote:I would agree that it would be unusual if you consider circumstances in all of the existing content. With the newer content having so many area denial effects the short range attacks become more problematic.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Thanks for the heads up.
I understand the issues with Ignite and Buckshot and the snipe change can be a very strong boost to AR single target, long range damage. However, it would be very unusual for current AR players to only use those two attacks, so most people are not going to be doubling their damage output just by adding the snipe. -
Quote:It would be better overall for blasters if they dropped the to hit mechanic and just used defiance. Thematically the second or third shot at a target is easier than the first. It also puts blasters on a more equal footing with defenders and corruptors for gaining the benefit.Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Ice Blast will not benefit from the Sniper Blast changes. OK, that's understandable since it has no snipe. However, Ice Blast does have a power that seems to take the place of the snipe and that's Bitter Freeze Ray (BFR). BFR does 1.32 DS with a 15.184 endurance cost and a 20 second recharge. It also applies a 3 magnitude hold and recharge and movement slow.
Based on the damage formula and taking aside the secondary effects, BFR should do 2.92 DS based on its endurance cost and 3.56 DS based on its recharge. Taking the 2.92 number for a second that means that BFR pays for its secondary effects with a 1.6 reduction in damage scalar. Although it isn't part of the classic calculation, BFR also has a very long 2.5 seconds cast time.
Ice Blast isn't falling behind because of any changes to it, the rest of the sets are surging ahead. The reason is the snipe. So why not just give BFR a damage boost and give it the snipe treatment.
THE SUGGESTION
Increase BFR damage scale to 2.76;
Increase BFR's endurance costs to 18.512;
When character's to-hit meets or exceeds 97% BFR has an alternate 1 second animation time.
That's it. BFR pays for it's hold with a 0.8 reduction in DS based on both endurance and recharge. It gets a snipe strength attack. I recognize that without the 97% to-hit, BFR is better than the snipes on animation time, but it still costs more, recharges significantly slower, and has a much lower range. -
Quote:Exactly on AR. There are 2 problems I have with including those.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
What are the Rifle chains you are using?
Because it looks like your no snipe chain is Burst-Slug- wait a lot since you didn't put down any buckshot or ignite numbers.
1. Burst and slug are 90 and 100 foot range powers buckshot is a 40
2. I have no idea how long it takes people to lay down ignite. I know when I use it there is a perceptible gap to lay down the reticle. It is also a 40 foot range power. -
Quote:This.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I can't say I've ever failed a Task Force or trial because of a lack of AoE damage. AoE may be efficient for some types of tasks but it has its place in others. When City of Heroes throws a gatekeeper on you (especially on a timer) there is a very good chance its mostly a single target DPS challenge.
Teamed you have all the AOE you could ever want. Success or failure is determined by can you kill the hard targets.
I have to guess that the people who are saying single target has no weight solo just don't fight anything harder than lieutenant rank. -
Quote:Hey I'm replying to a cat sticking out its tongue at meOriginally Posted by Eldagore
"You are wrong" is a pretty strongly worded response when your basis for it is as shaky as it is.
Anyway I finished my numbers on the sets that I play
Exec SummaryCode:Blaster DPA Corruptor Fire Flares 63.19 1.19 53.19 42.12 1.19 35.45 Fire Blast 92.59 1.85 50.10 61.73 1.45 42.51 Blaze 188.90 1.19 159.01 126.00 1.19 106.06 Blazing Bol 217.70 1.88 115.55 145.10 1.88 77.02 DPS no snipe chain 81.60 60.04 DPS snipe chain 101.46 73.57 pct gain 0.24 0.23 Assault Rifle Burst 67.57 1.19 56.88 45.04 1.19 37.91 Slug 102.60 1.85 55.52 68.40 1.85 37.01 Sniper 172.70 0.83 208.57 115.10 0.83 139.01 Dps no snipe 300% rec 44.22 29.48 DPS SNIPE 88.73 64.89 pct gain 1.01 1.20 Archery Snap Shot 52.55 1.19 44.23 28.36 1.19 23.87 Aimed Shot 82.58 1.85 44.69 41.71 1.19 35.11 Blazing Arr 161.70 1.98 81.67 107.80 1.98 54.44 Ranged Shot 172.70 1.85 93.45 115.10 1.85 62.28 DPS no snipe chain 59.18 40.83 DPS snipe chain 73.46 52.75 pct gain 0.24 0.29 Psy Blast Psi Dart 62.56 1.19 52.66 Mental Blas 102.60 1.85 55.52 41.71 1.85 22.57 TK Blast 122.60 1.19 103.20 68.40 1.19 57.58 Will Dom 77.58 1.32 58.77 81.75 1.32 61.93 Psi Lance 172.70 1.22 141.09 115.10 1.22 94.04 Subdue 55.06 1.85 29.79 DPS no snipe chain 69.51 47.11 DPS snipe chain 99.91 71.07 pct gain 0.44 0.51 Energy Blast power bolt 62.56 1.19 53.03 41.71 1.19 36.20 power blast 102.60 1.85 55.74 68.40 1.85 36.80 power burst 132.60 2.24 59.27 88.42 2.24 39.22 sniper 172.70 1.49 119.62 115.00 1.49 77.28 DPS no snipe chain 54.40 37.60 DPS snipe chain 73.10 48.71 pct gain 0.34 0.30
Least gain fire corruptor at a 23% base damage gain
Largest gain AR corruptor at 120% base damage gain
Those numbers are all base DPS no enhancements no procs and just enough recharge to make the chains work. Aside from the fact you have corruptors gaining more from this change than blasters. They can compound that gain with their debuffs.
This is only true as long as you exclude bosses, elite bosses, AVs, GMs, Reichsmen, and the end trial enemies.Quote:-For one, it is not really a build goal lately for much of anyone to make a blaster "best ST dmg" build, unless you have a specific goal of fighting GM's or something in mind. AOE is king in the city
[quote].
-Perma fast snipe, using devices which is mostly what that post shows, totally ignores what build up does for aoe dmg. Go ahaed and make that archery/devices character for that awsome fastsnipe ability. i will continue happily without it on my archery/electric. Fastsnipe is not going to help fireball/firebreath combos, even as it does make fire's ST dmg go up. I would make the comparison of this ST vs AOE DPS thing like this:
[quote]
Energy Manipulation can have perma fast snipe as well and build up it just needs massive amounts of recharge.
It does highlight part of the problem this does very little for blasters leveling up and can leave them even further behind in the late game.
Neither one has trouble dealing with the hard targets in the game, and neither really has to worry about taking them out before moving them on.Quote:My insane recharge bonus built katana/SR scrapper vs my Elec/shield scrapper. my katana scrapper chains soaring dragon/golden dragonfly almost seemlessly, with some gamblers cut thrown in here and there to fill in a gap once in a while. he can take down a single hard target like no ones buisness. My elec/sheidl scrapper is an aoe machine. he has good recharge built in, but not really all that great, and his build is certainly not as expensive.
Guess which one blows through a x8 mission faster?
My shielder gathers up the bosses from defeated spawns and then aoes them to death. If a blaster tried to do that the results wouldn't be pleasant or particularly effective. -
Quote:You are wrongOriginally Posted by Eldagore
This point you are trying to make, and Tex too- it is based on the presumption that indeed, fastsnipe mechanic is going to be so powerful you would be a total idiot not to use it, or that it will become a defining power in blast archtypes, like assasin strike to stalkers.
As I said in my first post here, it is highly doubtful the dev team plans for this kind of outcome. IMO, in their minds, they see the change and have some sort of calculable DPS increase in mind- and I am certain it is not a value that would end up with a situation you and Tex are trying to advocate.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=291837
Its not perfect but it shows the DPS of the chains using the new snipes for very aggressive optimization.
My own numbers show that you can get an easy 20- 30% more single target DPS. -
Quote:And that sounds like a good idea to you ? That every dominator can have a permanent fast snipe that does more damage than a blasters while most blasters will not ?Originally Posted by Kyriani
EVERY dominator can have perma snipe. Tactics + Kismet + Link Minds. Sure that means you're pigeonhold into psi APP in some cases, just like time users are pigeonhold into powerboost/powerbuildup.
Really I wouldn't mind if this was the start of fixes for the blast sets but I can't buy that at this point. Defiance 2.0 was put in, in 2008 4 years later we get our correction ? When is the review due for this 2016 ? -
Quote:Corruptors and defenders have no trouble having an always on fast snipe it takes one power pick and slotting a kismet+6 for them.Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Personally, I'm happy having "fast snipe" as a sometimes power. I don't think it SHOULD be a "always on" deal. Any attempt to bring down the ToHit % to let Corrs and Defs build for "Always on" Fast-Snipe might as well be answered with just gutting the entire idea and removing Interrupt time from all snipes and allow them to function as "fast" 100% of the time.
Then you are getting it wrong.Quote:That's essentially what people are asking for, it seems. They don't wanna wait for team buffs, or BU + Aim to recharge, or have to use -gasp- inspirations. If they can't use FastSnipe whenever they want, it's essentially useless. That's what I'm getting from people who are deriding these proposed changes.
Blasters have needed a damage boost for nearly 3 years now. They didn't need it along with every other AT that had snipes, they needed it relative to every other AT.
Making blasters jump through hoops to use fast snipes when other ATs don't have to is just nuts. -
Quote:http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=291837Originally Posted by BrainBrillo
Yes, but other target numbers (perma-hasten, defense softcaps) could be deduced from data in-game. And none altered anything as central to the character as their attack rotation.
I'm aware that people who study resources available outside the game itself will always have the edge. They just usually aren't handed advantages this big and this easily attainable.
Thought experiment - acknowledging that this is an advantage in DPS, how much is too much? I'll admit, if after all my hemming and hawing adding perma-snipe only means 5% more damage, I'll drop my argument as a false alarm. At 15% I'd feel vindicated, and 10% I'd still argue something should be done. Where do other people stand on this?
If the numbers in that thread are correct it looks like between 30-50% AR looks even higher -
Quote:Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Yet somehow all the non-melee ATs got along for years without the invention system.
Weird, since according to you that "isn't viable".
LOL and that goes along way to explaining why scrappers are the most popular AT.
Edit: shouldn't reply goat is up to his usual of needling people with genuine concerns -
Quote:I see and understand it, but it's the same one that people didn't want blasters improved were making.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Kyriani usually has some pretty valid points in these discussions and I think that's the case here as well. I disagree with her (him?) on this topic but I at least see her POV, even if I don't agree with it.
If you want to do things poorly that option is always there for you. The people who felt blasters and blast sets had problems are the ones not being well addressed by these changes. -
Quote:Horrendously bad options are horrendously bad options and really aren't worth consideration in the context of improving blast sets.Originally Posted by Kyriani
The change brings options no matter which way you look at it. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Kyriani
Are you saying no one takes a snipe right now? Cause I am confident that is not true.
Most: 1. in the greatest quantity, amount, measure, degree, or number.
All: 1. the whole of (used in referring to quantity, extent, or duration): all the cake; all the way; all year.
And yes what I didn't say wasn't true. -
Quote:Going out on a limb here, but, most people aren't going to be taking a power that is useful once in awhile. If they do take the power they will go to the trouble to make sure it is always useful.Originally Posted by Eldagore
If you didnt use a snipe before, or used it as it was, YOU ARE STILL GETTING A BUFF EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE WHEN YOU MEET THE CONDITIONS.