AllHazzardi

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A different example for why the numbers don't favor exemplaring:
I'm a level 30. I get 100 XP for killing a white-con minion.
If I exemplar to 10, I still get 100 XP for killing a white-con minion.
I currently have 5000 debt. I am 5000 XP from leveling.
Option 1: I stay 30, getting 50 XP and 50 debt for a kill. It takes me 100 minions to clear my debt, in which time I've also earned 5000 XP towards leveling.
Option 2: I exemplar. It now takes only 50 minions to clear my debt. Then I un-Ex, and it takes another 50 minions to get me 5000 XP towards leveling.
Bottom line: I don't end up any closer to leveling if I exemplar. Yet, I give up powers, can't work on my own missions, and risk L30 debt if I die again (which is likely if my power is reduced). Not worth it.

What I'm not sure about is how the math works out if I have debt extending to after my next level. Is it better to work off that next-level debt now? or to work it off after I level?

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Enemis at lower levels die faster....

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But the thing is, it's not. I know that on paper exemplaring looks rather useless since you're not earning xp, but *in practice* I have found over and over again that in a given period of time - say, four hours - I can clear my debt and then un-exemplar and start earning real XP and end the four hours with MORE TOTAL XP than if I'd stayed at my level and ground out the 50/50 split.

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Clearly you havn't actually tried the system. The darkened "debt" portion of the experience bar goes backwards, not forward like it would normally. You get NO experience while exemplared. Furthermore, despite that you work of debt at 100%, you still only work off about as much as you would fighting stuff at your level. I've done it several times. Just an example, I fight a white con mob unexemplared and I rake in 100 exp, work off 100 debt and gain 3000 influence and a single origin enh that I can sell for even more influence. Then I exemplar, fight a white con mob I work off 100 debt. That's it, no exp, no influence, no enh's. Um, excuse me, shouldn't I be working off 200 debt? What's wrong here? Hell, not sure, but I dont think you even get inspirations for kills while exemplar'd, as a result making the risk even higher.

Speaking of risk, the chances of you dying vs a white con mob while exemplared is the same, maybe even more since you're stripped of your powers, yet you get MORE debt at your unexemplar'd level. You get no reward. So why does Statesman keep saying "Risk = Reward" when this system obviously goes against what he says. I really dont understand the reason behind it. And then you're going to say "well you get to play with your friends lower than you, that's the reward!' Guess what? That's not enough. I dont think your progression should ever completely STOP as long as you're fighting stuff that challenges you. With this system, it does. It comes to a screeching halt.

IMHO, this should be reconsidered in someway. Either much greater reduced exp gain. At least so you're still progressing while doing it, instead of coming to a complete halt. Or much greater improved debt removal and/or influence gain. Or keeping your power (at a scaled power of course), so you're not so much at risk.

It was a good idea on paper, but it doesn't quite work as well.

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Non-ex:

You kill an enemy, this enemy takes aprox 30 seconds to kill, you earn 100 exp and work off 100 debt, and make 150 influence.

Ex:

You kill an enemy, this enemy takes 15 seconds to kill, you work off 200 debt, earn 13 influence.

If out of debt, you kill an enemy that takes 15 seconds, and you earn 213 influence(as an example).


__

But, my point is that, if you're exemplaring down to 20 from 40, and have no access to powers post 20(in other words your SL has been decreased in effect), why should you get debt as if you were level 40?

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hey if I'm wrong whatev, I'm wrong. I'm man enough to admit fault, for all these post that read like they're getting a temper over this.

At 36 my bar moves so slow my eyes may be deceiving me. I'm stating an opinion based on theory. Take the venom elsewhere, these are only words and this is only a game.

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hover your mouse over the bar or open your ID, it'll be a more accurate representation

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because none of the exp from anything will ever go towards your next level. Ever. Debt or not.

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none of the XP you earn normally that pays off debt will go to your next level either.So what exactly is your point?

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I'm talking while exemplar'd.
And replying to the quoted poster, which is falsely stating 'being in debt while exemplar'd means you ADVANCE like normal' so he gets defeated while exemplar'd on purpose, which is very wrong and pointless, all you do is pay off debt, you don't advance.

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Getting more debt as an exemplar is actually beneficial.

Let me put it this way; If you are in debt as an exemplar, your xp raises as normal, just as if you weren't exemplared and debt-free. Therefore having more debt as an exemplar means more time spent leveling as normal rather then being an exemplar, debt-free, and gaining no xp at all.

Exemplaring is the "Magic Wand" that turns debt into experiece. More debt is a reward as an exemplar. Getting debt as if you were the lower level is counter productive.

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Actually you're wrong, more debt just means that you have a purple bar, while exemplar'd you NEVER advance towards a level, not a single experience point. In fact, trying to get debt while ex'd is counter productive, as you could be giving away all the extra influence you'd make to your friends.

I don't know what kind of world you're living in where having debt while exemplar'd means you're advancing as normal(this is false), because none of the exp from anything will ever go towards your next level. Ever. Debt or not.

Well, you've been reduced in effectiveness from a level 40 to a level 20, even your enhancements are toned down, so why, while exemplar'd, should you get the debt of a level 40?

Agreed, it'd be nice if you got perhaps the debt of the level you're ex'd down to when you are defeated, though....
EDIT: same 1 minute reward buffer on this as with the rest of the stuff

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I'm sorry Vegetator but he did not say that. I and Others said that.

What he said is it was not intended.

At least when you make a statment can you not be too full of it.

But still everyone knows I'm right.

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Statesman said prior to the release of Issue #2 that he was
going to up the difficulty to make the game "more fun" in his
opinion.

The status effects are not a bug, it was his idea of more "fun".

Now, feel free to press it further and I will rub your nose in it
some more.

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Wrong! BAD Vegetator! *pushes your nose into it* No spreading misinformation!
</sarcasm>

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...v=#Post1380159
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...v=#Post1369473
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...v=#Post1369465
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...v=#Post1369481
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showf...v=#Post1369543

Yep! Sure looks intentional! They really want us to feel the pain!.....
Giving the mobs in the lower levels powers: design decision
Giving them plethora of strong stuns: Design error
+1 Level mobs: bug

He even went so far as to say in one of those that they were making *zero* attempts to make the game more difficult at all, for any level(yet....:directed at 32+). Which to me says this is all A. Unintentional and B. Bugs, which they are, and the the real difficulty increase is coming later.

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Any thoughts on my Deflection concept (Page 1). IMO, SR scrappers needs something that makes them unique. A "class-defining" ability that the rest of the powersets have (Instant Healing/Moment of Agony (definitely needs fixed), Invincibility/Unstoppable, Death Shroud/Oppressive Gloom). SR's just have Elude, and it makes for a pretty dull-looking set, especially since Elude is the "unreachable" level 38 power.

I was thinking that something along the lines of a damage mitigation/reflection power would be right up your alley.

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I agree wholeheartedly on the Deflection type power.

How about this, along those lines:

(name i can't think of): You dodge the enemy and trip him, causing him to fall down, and take some damage. (auto type power, 20% of every shot dodged causes it to happen on minions, 10% lts, 5% bosses)

How does that tickle your fancy?

EDIT: Melee attacks, that is