Zyphoid

Oddly, I feel this way every time I read one of her posts....

This one is a big one to me, but all I really care about is the new CoT and all the things after. Why? Because we were told that going forward new NPC costumes would be designed so the players could have them also. David even stated that the new CoT costumes were being built on the player rig. This is why we were so shocked when so many items were left out of the CoT pack.

So, if it is feasible then I would really like to get the missing CoT mage items. I have a feeling at this point that the reason we didn't get them is because the were only made for the male model. Which kinda stinks considering the CoL set was released at all. I guess you guys need to get to porting those items to Huge and Female so you can get more of my money for them. As I said, I am more than willing to pay for a CoT Mage pack.

The other is the Black Knight armor. It would really stink to limit that set to NPCs only.

Honestly, and I doubt I am alone in this, I think it is time to abandon the NPC rig for anything other than monstrous characters like the DA and ToV.

My question is if this includes porting items between the models? Because you did recently port a lot of old assets from male to female.

To be blunt, this sucks. Both of these should have already been done. It sucks twice as bad for male and huge models because females already have a sash.

So it is ok to take extra time to make sure females get unique parts AND the unisex parts in all packs, but no time can be found in the schedule to give male/huge a sash? You do realize how crappy that is right? I am trying really hard not to be antagonistic here, but putting sashes on that list was really unfair, just as unfair as females not getting the gunslinger or suit jackets.

That all looks cool to me. Some are more exciting than others, but I am sure I will pick them up any way.

I hope the feedback and suggestions help. I also hope more comes of it than the threads of the past. I am sorry that a few things on you're list have me leaving negative feedback, but I want to be fair and honest. As I hope you will also be fair and honest with us.

I have just decided to consider everything for sale. That if it is not I get a happy surprise.

I have also accepted that things we are willing to pay for happen faster.

I REALLY like this idea. It is the difference in growing up/starting in Metropolis or Gotham. Wow, I can't believe that didn't cross my mind before. I love KR as it is, it has a fritty feel with out being destroyed and dirty like the isles. Shoot, I like the idea of starting a Hero in the isles, but that would take too much story work. But any way...


I would LOVE to see KR as new starting zone. Get to be the hero from the other side of the tracks. That idea just has me stoked. Great thread!

Another great thing that could be a VIP benefit, If you choose KR as your starting zone, you can start as a Vig/Rogue before level 20! When you do new contacts have evil contacts too. I mean really that is the level range where a bad guy in Paragon City is going to try to fly under the radar any way.

I don't play villains, but I think Blue side currently has enough zones that some could be converted to grey zones an not much would be missed. All of the contacts would give gray missions. The progression would be KR> SKY>IP>Bricks all as gray zones. Why those? Because those are the more run down Gotham style zones. They all fit the Vigilante/Rogue theme. Where as AP>Steel>Talos>FF have the more shiny Metropolis feel. I am betting this was intentional on the part of the devs so they could give both the feel of a Batman or a Superman game experience.

Thee would be a bit of work involved for Doc Aeon to add new gray contacts, and there no real reason to change the current contacts. Again those are the levels where a villainous person is not going to be sticking their head up to get popped.

At 20 they would get tips and could decide to make the leap to red or blue just like everyone else.

Well, this is what I would do, I also like the idea of it giving a little more benefit to VIPs or those who have purchased the alignment system.

Meh, over, under, IDC. What is important is that you are responding, which means so far that you are doing a very good job. If you actually answer the questions from my first post I will praise your name to all I come across.

When you give us a list of what the tech limitations is, I will then repost my list and remove what is not possible.

A few things seem to have become clear so far though. Listing this to help you out.

We all want a sash for male and huge models.

We all want raised masks. Like the ones I posted, and the general domino masks. We are all pretty tired of the painted on look.

Lastly, we all still want the NPC parts that we do not have. I think most if not all of us are understanding to the lack of signature NPC items, but we feel we should get the costume parts of the common street mobs.

Now if someone disagrees with the above, please let it be known.

Now for my part, I will accept "Black Pebble will shoot me." as an answer to my questions about the missing CoT items and the Black Knight costumes. It just means I will have to start PMing him.

Sounds like Mot TP.

But I take it this only with the body? I ask because we have the cyborg options, and now the Imperial belt that is asymmetrical.

I agree with this, I am not sure how many others will though, or if they do understand what they are agreeing with.

This worked so well for Lighthouse.

Over the years I have figured out why this is too. Having designed and run my own game, I have had to deal with threads just like this one before, or with players who are sure they know more about balance in the game that I wrote.

The problem is that players are bias. No matter how much they don't want to be, or swear they are not, they still are. They all have their pet issues that cloud their view of the rest of the game. For example, mine is scrappers. I don't bother hiding it, and have been openly honest about it. I can have that luxury because I do not work for paragon. I play this game, therefor I can make all the bias clouded suggestions that I want. The devs are free to pick and choose from those suggestions as they will.

Really players are only seeing the game from their small point of view, which is far smaller than they think it is. Most of the time suggestions are made that do not take future content into account, because they are clueless of said content. They also don't have to really worry about things like the overall health of the game when making suggestions, and even if they think they are there is still that personal bias.

Now, the devs on the other hand may want to be bias, but are not suppose to get the option. They also tend to be formed up into teams to keep each other in check. Speaking from experience Devs look at a broader picture, and have to worry about multiple interlinking balance points that we don't even know about.

That is why our balance suggestions fall short, and this includes my own. I try to stay away from balance discussions that go beyond this is too easy, or this is too hard. Because I realize I am only looking at it from the PoV of the AT I enjoy. I play this game for fun, not a pay check.

The exception is when I beta test. At that point I feel that I am being given a privilege in helping with the future of the game. So I gave very honest feedback, which has sever times included that I feel something is too powerful on my beloved scrappers. Why? Because it is the right thing to do. In situations like that I also take the side of caution and look at some things as OP when they really are not. If something is going to get nerfed, I would rather it be in beta than on the live server.

That was a really long way of saying I agree with you. Also when I have serious suggestions, I do not post them on the boards. I PM them to the devs.

Now after all of that, you know giant sharks jumping out of the water attacking swimming and low flying heroes would be awesome! Come on, admit it.

A few of mine were like that. The scrapper buff being the main one.

I really do think we should have sharks though, and I do like the idea of property damage and inf debt because of it. I also have posted for years that it should hurt when we are hit by cars, trucks, and trains.

Shoot though man, some of the changes in this thread that could cause not just burning hate, but geek murder.

Here are the things I would really do and think would make the game better. Again I accept that better is a mater of perspective.

1. Cars and trucks do damage: Yes this is addressed to those who like to stand in the middle of the road for no reason at all. Getting hit by a car does half health, getting hit by a truck does damage equal to falling from the max fly height.

2. You powers do damage to things around you: Right now you are thinking "How is that bad?" It is bad because each time you go to the hospital they take Inf away from you to pay for the property damage you have caused. This can be circumvented by running what used to be the aura mission at level 30. I would make it so that running that mission would allow you to toggle on or off property damage.

Those of you with a self rez may be smiling right now, but the government gets it's money! Even if they have to doc your wages from the AH, or increase the cost enhancements.

You do have to option of a decreased total amount if you come to the City Office once a month to cover the bill. Much like super group bases.

3. Sharks: Not with lasers those of you who are getting happy. No sharks that attack like those they film flying out of the water because they are attacking seal at such a high speed. These sharks maybe can even jump high enough to hit some low flyers.

5. All t9 Armor powers would switch to a function like the old quantum flight. When you click it it is 0 end for the first 60-120 seconds. After that the end cost increases by 1.5 for every 10 seconds that you continue to have it up. There would be no max cost, so it could in theory go up to 200 end per tick. (The numbers on this would need a tweak, but I would prefer this mechanic)

6. Scrappers, brutes, stalkers, and tanks would get dual pistols as a primary.

8. Brutes would have a 85% resistance cap, to put them below tanks.

9. Tanks would get an increase to their base damage, and damage cap. However I would still be hated for this because it would not be enough to make J_B happy.

10. I would dump all of the old base tech, and have my new and much more competent staff (actually those working there now) rebuild it. Some would love me and say I was the best ever, others would hate me for destroying all of their hard work through the years. To appease those who hate me, I would give them x2 their total (spent and stored) prestige, but as I know how the players are, they would still hate me.

11. Conserve power would go away for melee ATs. They would all get Superior Conditioning in place of it.

12. I would be the most Melee focused Dev ever. For this all those who do not play melee ATs would hate me. To make them love me more, I would give Blasters MA as a secondary.

This one I would try to get away with if I am being honest. But I am pretty sure the someone would attempt to take sense into me.

7. Scrapper crit chance would increase 2% every 5 levels. This would stack with any other item/power that increases critical chance, and with the current base rates.

Really though, I think it would only end up being about a max 36% crit chance and that is with purple ATIOs. Which is 3% higher than the current stalker max when grouped in melee range with a full team.

I think part of the reason it was changed was because it became clear in testing and feedback that not having the level shift was acceptable, but not having the boost not acceptable. Also there was a small fear that non-incarnate would get abandoned. Looking at the game now, I think that is a reasonable fear. Which is why I countered with dropping shards instead of threads as you suggested. The WST is not as attractive to those of us who already have the t4 alpha we want. Now, if the WST gave me a chance at a Rare or VR then I would run it in a heart beat.

You also have to understand that a large portion of the players would rather do their own balancing. This is why mission sliders were so popular when introduced. I think the greater issue is that it is time to increase those sliders. Also consider some people just want to go back and get revenge. I remember the first time I did an all incarnate STF. We stomped a mud hole the size of texas in the AVs all at the same time. It was VERY satisfying... VERY. That first time it was great, now I like to run it at +4/x8 (yes I know the x8 part is redundant) which is still a challenge for an incarnate team. Not as much as it was in the old days, but still some.

At this point, my Incarnate toons (my true incarnates, the ones that I feel are cosmic characters) Hardly ever leave DA except to help friends when requested.

Again, a point we will have to agree to disagree on. Because I worry older content would be abandoned by those who want to continue with character progression if it were the way you suggested. Also, I don't remember them ever saying anything about not having the powers outside of incarnate content, just the level shifts.

I really have no clue who is VIP and who isn't. Last I recall the gold name tag was optional.

There are feats and optional rules in 3rd and 4th ed that fix this. D20 modern also has wounded rules where the more you are hurt, the more you suck. Just like every system though it is roll modifications.

Best part of the post. It made me smile just as I was gearing up for a fight today.

I can agree that there was a point where Hasten was broken and should have been nerfed, and it was, and then it was nerfed again. In the beginning Hasten also gave a +def boost, that had to go. Then the recharge time on it was increased, so that (in theory) it could never be made perma again. Now though it sits next to burnout.

There was a time where suggestions like what you and Roderick made would have worked, and been the right thing to do. That time has past, and now we are at a point where some of those changes would do more harm than good. Here is why.

I will start with this. Balance is a mater of perception. It is clear that what I see as balanced in a Superhero game does not match up with what you see as balanced in a super game. I am sure there are plenty of people out there that are the same as how we see it, and plenty who are different than both of us in their perception of balance.

With that in mind, is it worth balancing the game to one person's perception after it has existed in its current state for so long? I would say no because it would further decrease the player base with no guarantee that the balancing would replace the players that left. As you said Hasten in its current state is institutionalized. Doing it 6 or 7 years ago and it would have worked and been justified. Doing it now would just damage the game.

Oddly what gave me a greater perspective (that word again) on this thread was the CoX as a tabletop thread. I started thinking about Hero system and the preset power level/point ranges the game offered. I think it started at 50 for talented humans, and went up for there. 150-200 may have been street level. Forgive me it has been a long time since I looked at those rules, and there is a point here.

CoX started as a low point game with some powers that were above the street level theme, hasten is one of those powers that was a bit above the power level. Remember it is not about what the powers/abilities are, but how powerful they are. You could have an energy blaster in a street level game. Generally as characters progressed they left street level, and moved into the range of super powered. Not like JLA power levels though. We were still only in the 350-450 range. We were like JLA side kick range.

After 8 years we have moved to a point where we are at the 500+ point level and are more like JLA members, well we are getting close any way. That is why I have no problems with the current point of balance in the game. I am looking at it as a I would a Hero system game I have been playing for 8 years. My characters and powers are where I would expect them to be after all that time and point investment.

This sucks a bit for newer players, but it is what it is. Changing things like hasten runs the risk of doing more harm than good. It is however something they should keep in mind for a CoX 2. See there is one area where I do agree with you, no pool power should be better than a primary or secondary power set.

In the end on balance I think we will have to agree to disagree. Less because of us disagreeing on what balance is, and more on us disagreeing on where the game is. If I am reading right some would like this to still be a 200-400 point game. I am happy with it being a 500+ Cosmic level game. The characters I have that are not at that level do not run the incarnate stuff, or fully IO.

There are options that will allow a player to stay at street level, it just removes advancement. Even at level 50 you can choose to not be cosmic powered. You can do this by not using the IO system, or not using the Incarnate system. However, I do feel it is wrong to say that the whole game should be stuck at that level of play just because that is what you (not you specifically) want.

The game has progressed. We fight gods in space now, powers like hasten make plenty of sense when looked at from that perspective. That is just my opinion though.

Wow, I did a Sam and wrote a whole paper. I am a bit more rational and in a very good mood today for various reasons.

Consider the following post by Memphis_Bill for where I am coming from in this post.

Here is the thread.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=289042

I knew it would be a strong argument. One day I would love to know what you actually do for a living. I am convinced that you are a Vulcan who has had plastic surgery for the ears, but how is it you have managed to fit into a society of such lesser beings?

I hope you know I am kidding. I see your point, but as it is not a point based system and you are right we never really get a choice then each power does not have to be balanced in the exact same way.

However it is the system we have, the one that has succeeded, and the one that history has prove any drastic change to this system hurts it bad.

Like ZM's suggestion about DR in PvE. Because I do not PvP I have never looked closely at how the devs implemented it in PvP. What I [b]do[/i] know for sure is those who PvP hated it, even the ones who are personal friends and I know are reasonable people irl hated it.

If it hurt PvP that bad, I can only imagine the damage it would do to try to implement it in the PvE game. Just the fact that it was used in PvP first would be enough to sink it, how it worked would not even matter to most people. It would just be "They are balancing the game around PvP!" they would be wrong, but sadly as a good friend once told me "For most people, perception is reality."

If you are old then so am I! All of that brought back some of the best memories of my childhood. I got the 1989 Hard Back book for my 14th B-day, we had all been using my cousin's book for over a year and his was in a binder.

IMO the best supplement ever made for Hero system was "Ultimate Martial Artist" that was such a great book, and had more detail than my Real World "Martial Arts Encyclopedia"

I hope all these fond memories means this is going to be a good day.

Close but not quite right. There was a split of the IP there for a bit. There is "Champions: Hero System" and there is "Champions: Fuzion System"

The big difference was the use of plug ins, and a mechanic called "Rule of X" that was a very good attempt at balance. In the end it just made the game more complicated.

Here is the Wiki link that explains it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuzion

I am not sure that it really caught on with other groups, but our GM at the time helped write it. So, we used it.

Rolemaster was the most bogged down I had ever seen. It was like White Wolf though in that there was some very in depth lore, and more character classes than I had ever seen in a fantasy game. But then there was the whole Roll percentile on chart 1, this sends you to chart 24, 20 rolls of the dice later....

You brought up Heroes U, the best thing about those books was the art. They had some really great art in them.

For another D20 Super game I picked up "Vigilance: Absolute Power" a few years back. It was a nifty little system, a bit simpler than even M&M. It was made by Mystic Eye Games. One of the hundreds of companies that made D20 supplement games.

That is the great thing about the D20 system, if you know how to run/play one it is super easy to pick up another.

I would like to echo this for the same reason's listed. Like at it this way also, you port it so we can use all the chest details on the back, you would also be adding more back detail than any dev previously.

I haven't not iced much of it. Perhaps it is just veiled and I over look much of it. Or perhaps when you say bad I think or HGL where it was really bad.

For the t9 attack instead of the Gun Kata from Equilibrium you could go with the Pistol Whip Kata he did in another part of the movie.