AresSupreme

Originally Posted by Giant2005

A good premade will destroy the casual every time. That isn't news.
i13 was designed to make pvp more accessible to the casual (which is the primary aim of ALL the pvp orientated games - of course they all fail) and that is exactly what it did. Seeing screenshots of your premades are meaningless.

How about you take your premade (with heals) and take it against a team of completely random pvpers of completely random ATs. Choose an open map, turn off both TS and HD and if they fare well, you will have proven your point.

Otherwise, you are just advocating the need for the perfect team balance which isn't something any form of pvp should be striving for. PVP in CoH is currently already too inaccessible to the casual with it's differing rules and such, trying to make the problem even worse doesn't seem like the most positive change in the world.

If you want the use of pvp to increase, don't try to change it to cater for your needs, try to change it to cater for the needs of those that could be convinced to give it a shot.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

I'm gonna try and set something up on Virtue over the next couple of days. Let me know if you guys have any characters there.

Lol Dahjee. Blatantly an angry stealth dev.

Originally Posted by Silit

Myth: It's too hard to get kills with TS and HD off if there are healers!

Fact: See below.

Originally Posted by Xanatos

Continued debates with people who don't understand how the system works (Dahjee, Zahl, etc) serve absolutely no purpose.

The better thing to do would be to create a new thread demonstrating how TS & HD ACTUALLY WORK in game. (Supplemented by screenshots and videos proving it.)

It seems that coherent argument and demonstrating knowledge of how the system works is not enough to encourage the dev team to remove HD & TS. So therefore we must SHOW them why.

The truth is on our side. Proving it via case study would be a way to finally put this boring topic to rest.

Originally Posted by Sailboat

Well, the purpose of Incarnate stuff is for each 50 to have something more to do and not be "finished" at 50.

Your desire would seem to run counter to that.

Originally Posted by Giant2005

if you read my posts then the answer would be apparant. Don't quote me and say random things with insults if you haven't read the content.
Firstly, yes as I mentioned my Pain Dom is part of a /pain duo.
Secondly, the 800HP per second was mentioned as an outcome of removing Heal Decay and an argument against it. Of course it is impossible to do that now.

Again, I can't stress this enough, please read the posts before saying such absurdities and even more importantly, don't insult other posters. PVP already has a bad name in coh, we need to keep things civil and show the playerbase that we are not pricks if we expect pvp to ever be more popular than it is.

Originally Posted by Giant2005

A 500% regen debuff would hardly touch the sides... with 50% DDR and 2000% regen, you would drop that 2000% to 1750% which is a negligable difference. You would be dead before you tried for a second application.
Regardless, this is not a thread about who has the biggest E-Peen, so let's keep this civil and constructive.

Even if you got bugged and your Lingering Radiation was enough to get rid of the entirety of the Pain's regen, you are still looking at an 800hp heal every second. with 0% regen it would still take 3200 DPS to start scratching the surface.

Sure you can also bring someone along that can debuff the ability to heal (very few powersets can do this and a major part of Heal Decay's implementation was to remove the requirement of having that perfect team for success), you can also bring some resist debuffs. The reason I don't want Heal Decay removed is because it is absurd to require such an army. Sure as a Pain, I'd benefit from it's removal more than most but I wantt to be able to log in, jump in RV and have fun. I don't want to have to spend an hour forming the perfect team with all the tools required to neuter healers and for that matter, runners.

Originally Posted by Giant2005

Not in any kind of reasonable situation. 75% resists, 150hp/sec regen, and a 800hp heal every second?
You would have to do 3800 DPS to scratch me, you would have to do significantly more to be a genuine threat.
I don't want Heal Decay removed.

Originally Posted by PC_guy

because thats happened before and doesn't matter? we can organize an put lists together and do whatever else organized things do. it won't make a difference. we've already done, afew times now, and the bottom line is, it'll get done when the devs want to get it done. the devs don't want to, and probably never will want to, get it done in a correct fashion.

there is not much point in yelling and screaming, no matter how correct it is, when it falls on deaf ears.

Originally Posted by Lothic

The Incarnate Merit Vendors now allow you to transfer Incarnate salvage to other characters.
The conversion rates are kind of crummy, but at least it's doable now. Enjoy.

Originally Posted by Giant2005

Heal Decay is fine, immortals in pvp are no fun. If we were allowed immortality, we would all have it and pvp would no longer exist.

About travel suppression, I am for removing it but only with one caveat: all travel powers are greyed out in zone pvp. That would be a positive change.

Originally Posted by Warkupo

No, but my experience in PVP shows me that you need it turned on in order for fights to finish. When it was off, everyone just ran away before they actually died. You could launch another attack, and maybe even kill them if their health was low enough. Most of the time, however, trying to attack a fleeing enemy just meant that you were giving them extra distance to escape. You're only real option was to spend the next two minutes chasing this guy around the zone, hoping that he got caught on a tree or something, or just wait around until he heals up and tries to attack you again. Which ultimately brings me back to repeating myself: If you just wanted to play tag, you can do that in Atlas Park. I prefer PVP to be about killing each other, not chasing each other.

Long and short of it is simply that I don't like chasing people. I don't consider that PVP. That's not my build against yours, my powers used strategically against yours. That's just us jumping around a bunch of buildings for awhile until you feel all better and decide to fight me again. I don't like chasing people around, so TS is always going to be a good idea to me.

Originally Posted by Fiery-Enforcer

It's a valid statement when the argument he commented on doesn't make much sense.

Some people actually think TS is beneficial when it's really not. All it helps is unsuppressed targets to catch up to suppressed targets to land at least one attack. You see this doesn't help melee characters in the way people think. Once you're both suppressed, you're moving at the same speed, which is just annoyingly slow. In the end all TS does it make it very easy for a group of players to kill another player.

HD is just as much an idiotic idea as TS. I've never heard a good argument for this feature, besides from players fears of other players getting healed by emps. Guess what? It's pretty simple actually, kill the emp!

I assume most of the people who "like" the current system are all the bad KM Scrappers that think they will suck if anything is changed.

Originally Posted by Soul_System

. Well thing is it's one of those things that awesome when it's beneficial and crappy when it's not. When you are capable of beating someone through sheer skill even though they have the advantage but you simply can't stop them from running away no matter what CC you use, it's just tear inducing.

I got my first taste of this flawed PVP design in EQ II playing a Guardian. I could beat alot of people through careful play but I could rarely kill anyone because there was never any way to truly stop people from running in that game. I could snare them, knock them down, snare them again, etc. They would use one of various speed boosts and run away and I could either match them and cancel combat and they would regen back up, or I could chase them futiley plinking hem with arrows that would not outrun their healing.


COH reminds me of that only without the ability to even pretend to harass them as they escape. It's 1...2...3.. oh their travel power is active again and they are goooooonnnnneeeee!!!.