Alpha-One
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The following is Omega Shockwave's game winning plan. I'm posting it here so it doesn't get gobbled up by the forum monster.
Quote:Originally Posted by Omega Shockwave
So here's some new strategy we'll use for the inside of the Cathedral of Pain Trial along with some data analysis...
This is what we're up against (some number crunching here), for some min/max values.
Aspect of Rularuu's max HP: 76692.89
Aspect of Rularuu's regen: 597.58 HP/sec
The numbers below have been modified so we can compare them to what is listed at level 50 in Mid's Hero Designer.
If we don't touch his regen rate (and use only dmg he's 10% resistant to):
Time Aspect is Vulnerable______ DPS needed to defeat
60 sec________________________ 181.112
50 sec________________________ 205.7949
40 sec________________________ 242.8192
30 sec________________________ 304.5264
If we don't touch his regen rate (and use only dmg he's 40% resistant to):
Time Aspect is Vulnerable______ DPS needed to defeat
60 sec________________________ 271.668
50 sec________________________ 308.692
40 sec________________________ 364.228
30 sec________________________ 456.789
I think a 40 second window is more realistic, so I'll use this when playing around with his regen rate being debuffed.
This represents what it'd look like if we had 40 seconds (using only dmg he's 10% resistant to):
Regeneration Rate______DPS needed to defeat
597.58 HP/sec____________242.819
501.96 HP/sec____________233.587
400.37 HP/sec____________223.779
298.79 HP/sec____________213.970
197.20 HP/sec____________204.161
101.58 HP/sec____________194.930
0.00 HP/sec______________185.121
This represents what it'd look like if we had 40 seconds (using only dmg he's 40% resistant to):
Regeneration Rate______DPS needed to defeat
597.58 HP/sec____________364.228
501.96 HP/sec____________350.381
400.37 HP/sec____________335.668
298.79 HP/sec____________320.995
197.20 HP/sec____________306.242
101.58 HP/sec____________292.395
0.00 HP/sec______________277.682
Update: Values for 45 seconds will be added tonight (based on the Alpha One's post about multiple sources confirming the timer value)
Obviously there are still things not taken into account here (like damage buffs and resistance debuffs), but this sets a good baseline to benchmark against.
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TEAM MAKEUP
Before we fill out CoP roster, let's gear our damage dealers toward the Rularuu Aspect's weaknesses as best we can. Using the Power Analyzer Mk III, we learned that he has no defense to any of the damage types. He has 40% resistance to Smashing, Lethal, Energy, and Toxic damage, but only 10% resistance to Fire, Cold, Negative Energy, and Psionic damage. If you've got multiple damage dealers, try to bring one that falls in the 10% resistance bucket. See the numbers above for proof this matters.
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Things everyone should bring/take time to do:
1. A full complement of Envenomed Daggers (this baby has a quick activation time, deals decent damage and has a 10 sec regen debuff of 250%)
2. 7 to 10 damage inspirations (as large as you can get)
3. 3 to 5 defense inspirations (as large as you can get)
4. (optional) 1 or 2 Tier 3 awakens.
5. Shivans. Please get them if you don't have them.
6. The HVAS heavy. If you've got the vanguard merits to get it, please do so.
7. The Backup Radio temp power.
8. Find 3 or 4 powers that have a high Damage per activation time. These will probably be single target attacks. They should also have a quick recharge because of the high DPS needed to take the Aspect of Rularuu down. These attack cannot cripple your ability to attack again either (sorry, nukes are a bad idea here)
9. Set a monitor on your Damage Bonus. Melee, Range, and AoE defense wouldn't be bad to monitor as well.
10. Patience. There are a lot of us that would like to have a successful run. This trial involves TONS of high level coordination, we need everyone to be patient and stick to the plan. This isn't easy, nor should we expect it to be.
Update: 11. Get on the Ravenwolf vent server (see ShadowRavens post below). Even if you don't have a microphone it is helpful to hear what it going on and this is the quickest way to get directions. No typing in game = more fighting time.
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Once we've gotten into the Cathedral from the Shadow Shard all of the teams should line up in a "U" formation at the entrance. This will help buffers that have long lasting buff cycle through more than just their respective teams more easily. This will probably need to be a tight formation for the AoE buffs. See below for diagram. If one team seems to have done better than the rest at killing mobs, they should take the Team 3 spot.
Team 1
X X X X X X X X
Team 3
X
X
X
X........O
X
X
X
X
Team 2
X X X X X X X X
We'll buff up in this formation. Furthermore, Team Leaders will assign a direction for their members to head if done early with their mob. Facing in toward the middle of the room, half should go left, and half should go right.
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Updated - The buff order:
1. Drop pets that are not timer based. This will probably be only those from primary/secondary powersets. Don't drop the others yet (they are only available for a certain length of time).
2. We identify someone as vengeance bait and someone as the vengeance casters. Ideally, our vengeance bait will be a non-tank, non-buffer, low damage dealer. A self rez is worth bonus points here because you won't be getting any buffs.
3. The vengeance bait (with no buffs) dives into the group by the cube and takes a fall. Right in the middle here, we don't want any unnecessary aggro coming toward the rest of the group. Our vengeance bait is then teleported back to the group (marked as "O" in the formation). DO NOT REZ THIS PERSON YET.
4. Single target buffs are applied. Fortitudes, Forges, Cold Dom or FF shields, Sonic shields, Speed Boost, Adrenaline Boost, Clear Mind, Increase Density, etc. If you can get the pets too, that's awesome.
5. Drop timer based pets. Looking for Shivans, HVAS, Backup Radio, pets from mastery pools. (don't drop the useless ones like Snowbeast, Clockwork, etc.) Make sure they are not going to be close enough to aggro the surrounding enemy mobs.
6. The Group Leader calls a "Huddle". Get in close around our vengeance bait.
These next steps need to be carried out quickly. Steps 6 through 8 should be done in about 8-10 seconds, quicker is better. Everyone will need to move quickly and precisely from here on out.
6. The Group Leader will call out for any Mind Link, Recovery Aura, Regeneration Aura, Accelerate Metabolism, and World of Pain buffs.
7. The Group Leader will call out "Final Buff". At this time anyone with Call to Justice should use it. The vengeance caster will cast vengeance 2 seconds after the "Final Buff" order is given.
8. The Group Leader will call out "Go!" and we'll attack the mobs surrounding the cubes.
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MOB STRATEGY
Team 1 heads to the left.
Team 2 heads to the right.
Team 3 heads to the group in the middle at the back of the room. Since they kill quicker, we're offsetting this by making them travel just a little further.
Notes:
- Do not stay dead on the floor, ask for a rez or use Large Awaken to get back in the fight. You're no good dead on the floor. (except the vengeance bait guy
)
- The Aspect of Rularuu can no longer attack while in his shield, so ignore him for now.
- Sprint to your group quickly. Time is of the essence here, make the most of your buffs.
- We should be pretty buffed up at this point in time, so everyone should be attacking.
- If anyone has an AoE -Fly to get the mob out of the air, use it.
- If anyone has fulcrum shift, use it while we have multiple enemies to get a larger buff.
- When your team's mob is almost done, crack 3-4 damage inspirations and 1 defense inspiration. We're doing this before the fight with the Aspect so we can maximize our damage and not waste valuable time buffing while he is vulnerable.
- If your group gets done early with its mob, split and help out the others.
AS SOON AS WE SEE THE MESSAGE THAT THE ASPECT'S SHIELD IS DOWN, EVERYONE WILL GO TO HIM AND START ATTACKING. No tanks will stay behind for the next spawn because we're throwing the kitchen sink at him. Ideally everything done while the AV is vulnerable should be a High DPS attack, regen debuff, or resistance debuff.
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ATTACKING THE ASPECT OF RULARUU
All: Use the 3 or 4 attacks that are your best DPA (dmg per activation time) and the Envenomed Dagger. Keep an eye on your damage buff and keep cracking inspirations to keep it high. Again, don't stay dead on the floor if you die.
Debuffers: Throw down regen and resistance debuffs. Be very liberal with the Envenomed Dagger. If it's up and you don't have a better DPA attack, use it.
Buffers: Attack as much as the battle allows you. Be quick to rez the dead (if you have the opportunity to use vengeance again, do it quickly). Like the debuffers, be liberal with the Envenomed Dagger.
If we don't take him down before his shield is back up, hurry back to your team's assigned mob. Kill them as quickly as possible using the same plan as before and quickly get back to the Aspect. If we do not defeat the Aspect at this point, the run will mostly likely fail since we should be out of inspirations, temp powers, etc. Hopefully it goes well and we have a successful run. -
I'll be on my Bane, Botley will bring his Widow. MrsA will either be moving her Fire/Cold corr back to redside or bringing her Mace/Elec brute, depending on if she has time to collect a couple A-merits and switch over before the raid.
Semper Fi -
Congratulations Guardian, on our first successful semi-PUG CoP trial!
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I know I'd be bringing highly resisted lethal damage, but I'd like to bring my Mercs/FF MM for the badge, but can also bring my BS/Shield scrapper if you guys feel we need more damage and less buffs.
Quick note, Rularuu's shield downtime has been confirmed as a flat 45 seconds by multiple sources now. -
/Farnsworth "Good news everyone!" /e Farnsworth
As of yesterday's patch Warburg nukes have been disabled in the Cathedral of Pain trial, so I no longer have any reason to go in that zone. Also, according to Castle, the merit reward for completing it is now 21 instead of 10, and Rularuu should no longer be able to attack thru his shield. This should remove the requirement for a dedicated main tank and tank support and allow the teams to be more balanced and damage/debuff oriented.
I'll leave it to Vix to announce when the next run is, I'll be there to help. Though I don't like having to use temp powers to win this, I think the Envenomed Dagger idea is a good one, we can keep Rularuu's regen floored thru the duration of his shield downtime using them and save the big debuffs for about 5 seconds before he reshields. The challenge at that point is to clear the respawns as quickly as possible, with luck before the debuffs wear out. Using this tactic a rinse-repeat strategy is viable. It's important that people not spam them too much, the -regen last 10 seconds, so you should only need to launch 3-4 per downtime. If you spam them as soon as they recharge, there's the risk of running out before we kill the AV.
Without Envenomed Daggers we'd have to be debuff heavy, at least 8 to 12 corrs/fenders/trollers so that half can hit at the start of the fight and the other half can hit before reshield. -
Can you say what kind of mouse it is? My Razer Copperhead had the same issue and it turns out it needed a firmware update.
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Quote:That's a great guide, thx for the find!Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Alpha, have you checked out Amygdala's Guide to the Cathedral of Pain Trial yet? I found it to be a pretty interesting read.
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Quote:Well as I pointed out no one with excluded villain ATs asked to be included while several heroes still did, despite the fact I had said they were excluded. I even opened up the raid to all corrs and not just the specific powersets I'd asked and we still couldn't get enough. What strikes me as odd is as a mainly villain player I know the most popular ATs are brutes and corrs. As you had said, you usually can't spit in the Isles without hitting one.Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
"Sticking to blue to get the numbers" is a fallacy. Yes, it is more quiet red side but the lack of numbers were down to the narrow specifications you laid down; very specific ATs which excluded not only a fair few red ATs but also all heroes who had gone red.
Why would a doms, stalker or MM ask to join when you had already specifically excluded them?
Faulty logic there.
Open a red side run to ex heroes and other ATs. You'd get enough.
At this point I think the only advantage to running a redside raid is because my base is there and I can usually get 3 people to run the teams without having to ask someone to join up. Even my own folks were grumpy because all our badgers were blueside. I wish I had something better to bring than my MM, who's damage usually dies within seconds of engaging Rularuu. -
Had to scrub tonight's run. We didn't have enough people and I ran out of time. We did come close though, we mustered 9 VEATs, 6 Corrs and 4 Brutes. I think we'll have to stick to blueside just to get the numbers. I do want to point out that no doms, stalkers or MMs asked to join, though I got a few requests from heroes who went red who wanted to join up. I also guess that means I can't be too picky, lesson learned
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I think I may have spoken too harshly when I said if not enough people show up I won't run anymore. I'm just getting kinda frustrated because I feel like the old i7 LRSF when I couldn't get on a team because I was playing a stinking MM, and I DON'T want to do that to others. But right now just to figure out how to win I'm resorting to min/maxing the teams. Back in the old RSF days that was one stone brute and 7 corrs. If a min/maxed team can do it, maybe if I replace one slot per team with a random badger we can still do it. If a min/maxed team can't, then all my tactical planning is for naught. And I want badgers to get the badge, and I also want people who can run it so *I* can get the badge on my badger.
My VG and Coalition mates are pulling through. Most of the VEAT and brute slots are full. It actually pains me that all of RIMC's badgers are currently blueside because two of them are a rad/therm and a fire/rad corr. They're both bringing Widows instead.
It takes 4 debuffers to bring Rularuu down to the regen floor. Yes PGT does double duty, but it does require a very squishy toon get in melee range of Rularuu, not an optimal situation IMO. Kins are great and I love them, and can seriously enhance team DPS thru SB, Siphon Power and Fulcrum Shift. They just bring very little debuffs to the raid, and require folks (including the kin themself) be in melee range of Rularuu to get the most benefits. Again not an ideal situation. Ntm Fulcrum Shift is better applied in large mob situations, rather than vs a single AV.
Not sure why you dislike brutes so much Capa :P Yes, a resistance based brute takes 3 times the dmg a similar tank would take (85% res cap vs 95%). However the extra HP and defense brought by a cold corr, along with several VEATs worth of buffs, can turn a single brute into monster. So IMO, a brute can do a tank's job AND bring way more DPS against Rularuu.
Anyhow if anyone has a Corr that can fill a slot for the raid please sign up.
Semper Fi -
I was kinda expecting public opinion on this to be rather sour. I also doubt I'll get enough turnout to run it. What's the point of running it redside anyways if folks are just gonna move their badger heroes over to run it? Anyhow, if you guys really don't want me to run it this way, I'm gonna bow out. I don't believe this raid can be PUG'd, at least not yet. I'll just do what I've always done: let someone else figure it out and beg to let them squeeze my badger in. I think the CoP related badges are a long-term write-off for me now.
So anyhow, if people want to help me try to figure this thing out, show up with an AT I've requested. If not enough ppl show up, I'm not running any more.
Semper Fi -
Quote:Can I ask why you disagree with this approach?Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
I'm sorry but this is very disappointing.
I've brought chars to other people's TFs for the badge on so many occasions (I had MoLG on four chars and six runs before I got it on my blue badger) but no way in hell am I turning up to this raid on anything (including my debuffers/veat) to help out if the specifications are as above.
I'd set up my bases to help, I'd alt as needed after - hell I got up at 2am to help the last raid - but if it's "x AT or don't bother"; you got my answer.
Need not have bothered getting shivs/heavy/nukes etc.
I've been finding that everyone brings their badger (including me) and it's not working. Now I want a very specific team build in the hopes we can pull a win, and I'm willing to sacrifice bringing my badger to do it. Should my expectation that others do the same be too much? -
Ok, RIMC will be hosting a redside raid Friday night @ 9pm EST, forming up in Pocket D @ 8:30pm EST. And I hate to do this but I'm gonna be real picky about what can come. This will be a pure villain AT raid. Unless you're lucky and your badger fits the bill, come to win, not to badge.
Team 1
1) Main Brute (Stone with Taunt)
-- Vicki
2) Support Corr (Pain or Thermal)
-- @LadyWillow
3) Buff Corr (Cold)
--
4) Debuff Corr (Rad)
--
5) VEAT (Widow with Mindlink)
-- Ida Widow-er
6) VEAT
-- Operative Raynes [Raid Lead]
7) VEAT or Brute
-- Carolina Eclipse
8) VEAT or Brute
--
Team 2
1) Team Brute
--
2) Support Corr (Pain or Thermal)
--
3) Buff Corr (Cold)
--
4) Debuff Corr (Rad)
--
5) VEAT (Widow with Mindlink)
-- Silken Widow [Team Lead]
6) VEAT
-- Blood Tarentula
7) VEAT or Brute
--
8) VEAT or Brute
--
Team 3
1) Team Brute
-- Gabriella di Inferno [Team Lead]
2) Support Corr (Pain or Thermal)
--
3) Buff Corr (Cold)
--
4) Debuff Corr (Rad)
--
5) VEAT (Widow with Mindlink)
-- Malevolent Mirage
6) VEAT
-- Huntsman Vladek
7) VEAT or Brute
-- @Blacjac84
8) VEAT or Brute
--
Since we're unable to "reset" the raid, if we meet Stormy again we'll make 2 tries at him, then scrub. Hopefully this setup will work against Big Red so I'm willing to bang my head against the wall a few extra times vs him.
And a big note, and I'll put emphasis on this several times during the raid, hold your AOE buffs and -regen debuffs until ordered to use them. I hope to try the "debuff before rebubble" tactic if we don't get him down on the first pass. No temps required, bring Shivans and HVAS if you want but I'm not expecting them from everyone.
And please note, this is an experiment, I hope to get max participation but this will not be the default "set in stone" raid build for future raids. I plan on adjusting it to make it possible for us to get badgers in once we've managed to get a successful raid. I have another experiment planned where I'd like to see lots of control to lock Rularuu down and see what happens.
See you all in the D
Semper Fi -
Quote:I'm hoping to run one redside this Friday but I'm still trying to tee up with VGmates to make sure we have 3 team leads. Once I've got everything confirmed I'll post here.Originally Posted by Armeros
Alpha or Vixen.
When is the next scheduled run expected to be?
Trying to update the Facebook page with the current server events.
Thanks folks! -
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Quote:It looks like the raid mission itself is assigned to the entire SG, so as long as an SG member is team leader the entire team can access the raid. In which case I'd expect changing team leaders would allow the whole team to run a different SG's raid without having to wait or reform.Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
Can someone who was on the original raid, join/start the second raid with the same char? I'm thinking if you have to re-form the team from scratch that's going to take a while and is probably quicker to let the original timer run out.
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Quote:How about we start by actually completing one, then I'll tell you how long it tookOriginally Posted by Kool_Virus
How long does it take yall to complete the CoP trial?
Theres an sg on freedom that does it in 10mins. I thought it was hard.
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Quote:That would seem to be the only way to "reset" it. Have another SG start it and run it with them.Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
If SG 1 starts the raid, Stormy shows up and everyone quits (apparently SG 1 is still on the timer), can SG 2 start a raid that includes any members from SG 1? If Yes, then we could possibly get 2 or 3 SGs with atleast 3 members to start round robins until we get the Non-stormy aspect.
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Quote:It looks like the raid is assigned to the base itself, and not any particular player or team. I started one solo with my brute in my base, didn't even enter the raid, went blueside on my main who's still in the VG and it was showing as an active mission for him too. There isn't even an option to abandon the mission.Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Having everyone quit their teams won't reset it?
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RIMC's base is now raid ready, so expect a call-to-arms Redside in the near future. I ran a couple quick experiments with my VGmates and an issue has popped up. There doesn't seem to be any way to reset the raid. There's no way to cancel or abandon it and even if one person starts it and never enters the raid the timer continues on. So if we want to reset on the storm aspect, we need to figure out how or even if it's possible.
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Quote:Yeah, definitely doing that next time. The Lanaruu aspect isn't worth the effort to take on.Originally Posted by Capa_Devans
Can I repeat my suggestion that if we get past the Obelisks and the AV is Storm we reset and reform automatically? Far as I can see the only thing not getting KB to the next zone was the stone tank. Presumably too many cookies.
Sorry we couldn't get it. I'm off to bed again. Gnight. -
Quote:I don't think it's a matter of changing the strategy at this point. Mechanically it should work. The issue is to make it work we need to do two things I want to avoid doing:Originally Posted by Doctor Vivian
I'm not sure what the exploit was -- or even if there WAS an exploit.
Teams have failed before, many times, despite dropping nukes on Rularuu.
Nukes are not the end-all solution, they never were.
If three teams could coordinate closely enough -- with Nukes -- they could defeat Rularuu.
But -- as Mrs. Alpha One says -- isn't that the point? Close coordination and intense focus results in triumph?
The question now is -- without Nukes -- how must our CoP Strategy change to still win?
-- Vivian
1) use voice communications for closer coordination
2) require very specific ATs and builds to balance the team
I know some large, well organized veteran SGs have completed it without any temps. I was using nukes and other temps as a crutch, basically to see if what essentially amounts to a PUG was able to do it. Without nukes I'll basically have my crutch removed before even being able to walk. -
Quote:Well I have a good idea what that exploit might be: get a perfectly balanced pre-built raid team where everyone has all 3 nukes, coordinate using Vent and slaughter Rularuu in 30 seconds.Originally Posted by Kheldarn
Although it's easy to miss in all the drama in the patch thread, it seems pretty possible that the Nukes were removed due to an exploit.
As I said there: If that's the case, that's a fair reson to remove them. However, if they hadn't made it so stupid hard in the first place, there probably never would have been a Nuke Exploit... -
Quote:WTH why??? I've been trying to run a successful CoP USING nukes and haven't been able to yet. And now you pull out my best crutch from under me! I think if this patch goes live as is I simply won't run be running CoP trials anymore until it gets nerfed ala LRSF in i8. If someone has a game-plan that doesn't require nukes, Ventrillo and a perfectly pre-built team setup please PM me!Originally Posted by Avatea
Patch notes for build 1850.201009101722.1T.
[*]Warburg Missiles can no longer be used in the Cathedral of Pain.[/list] -
Quote:Jeebus! So who the heck do I PM with a profanity laced tirad? Almost reminds me of the LRSF in i7 where the devs blatantly said "Huh-huh-hyuk this SF is SOOOO tough NO ONE can beat it!". It had to get nerfed in i8 to become doable by non-power gamer teams. I wonder if that's what's gonna happen with the CoP.Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
For those of you who don't read patch notes or look to the Training Room patches for insight on what's cooking:
So we better make tonight's run count tonight.