Snow Globe
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Quote:Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
No one is forcing you to do trials, the same 1-50 experience is still there.
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Quote:That's nice... And that means players that don't want the endgame raiding crap from other games have one less reason to stay subscribed. Oh wait... The Incarnate System was meant to keep subscribers enticed to continue their subscription. I believe there is a word for that:Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
That's nice, but like I said earlier, like it or not, that's what CoH has become. You can either choose to deal with it, or ignore the endgame raiding content. You still have plenty of things to do from levels one through 50.
Fail. -
Quote:The thing is that doesn't explain the increasingly level shifted AVs in the trials, the number of "1 shot, 1 kill" mechanics, the inability to use an awaken in the 2nd phase of the MoM trial (try it sometime), and the general "kill the players before they can react" nature of the trials.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
I understand what you're saying Snow, however there is a difference, mechanically, between pen and paper RPG's and an MMORPG, mostly because of development restrictions.
You want players to invest themselves in the story, but many players (not all) are saying "I'm not having much fun with this story." At what point does this become a large enough problem that it needs to be fixed?
Yet there are ways to make an MMORPG story more appealing, and I'm speaking strictly from a mechanics perspective.Quote:Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Don't get me wrong, I love pen and paper, however the same principals that apply there cannot apply to MMORPG story telling. Not in the same way.
Let's take the TPN.- Why aren't there waypoints (as requested in the beta) for the next building to go to? That is existing tech, no programming or art time needed.
- Why aren't there items outside that delay the seers from showing up?
- Why aren't there items outside that prevent, or at least delay the seers from converting the civilians?
- Why did the developers see fit to break the 1-shot prevention code on numerous levels in the trial?
But the developers are willing to do so with the Incarnate Trials. Why else threaten the players with decreased rewards for doing the earlier trials? Do you not see the double standard?Quote:Originally Posted by Zwillinger
Also, Protean is an amazing DM, and has never railroaded us once on our campaign. :P -
Quote:There is too much expectation from the developers that players stay "on the rails" and do each successive trial in order. There is too much expectation from the developers that player skill or desire to run later trials with increased difficulty. There is too much unwillingness from the developers to let players experience the story in a non-linear fashion.Originally Posted by Zwillinger
We have a reason that the story is told in whatever way it is. Whether it's due to a nuance of the actual story or because of limitations imposed by mechanics (it could be either or in this particular case, I honestly don't know), we wanted there to be the chance that you could be brought low by a guy throwing a rock. I'm not a story designer, so I'm not going to pretend to know why TPN was written in the way it was, but I know the way that Positron, Protean, Baryonyx, Viridian and Dr. Aeon work: Deliberately and with purpose.
I'm not asking you to agree with our story telling decisions 100% of the time. I am asking you to discuss the story for it's merit.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OffTheRails
Players are starting to go off the rails at this point. Oh, and the rocks, well tvtropes has a page for that too:Quote:Off the Rails
The Game Master has created an epic plot that spans time, space and dimensions. Its scope is exceeded only by its elegance, its elegance only bettered by its plot, its plot only bested by its setting, and the whole thing is held together by a compelling supporting cast of NPCs. The campaign is perfect.
...at least, that's what the Game Master thinks.
Meanwhile, the players have decided that the huge scope has made the world shallow, it's only "elegant" if you like a Cliché Storm, the plot was lifted straight from the third remake of something, the setting looks like it came from Manos: The Hands of Fate with the Serial Numbers Filed Off, and the so-called supporting cast of NPCs are either cookie-cutter stereotypes or Mary Sues who make the players feel like the supporting cast. It's about halfway through the campaign, and the players have decided that everything is only going to get worse. The time has come to strike a blow for freedom, for better plots, and against this idiotic Game Master. The players go Off the Rails.
This can take many forms, but at its core, one (or more) players disrupts the Game Master's carefully-crafted plot by killing an important NPC, revealing an important secret, or just refusing to go where the plot demands they should go. Or maybe they just switch sides.
If the Game Master is inflexible, either the GM ignores all actions that disrupt his plot (a.k.a. Railroading), or drops a whole ton of rocks on them. Or pauses the game to confer with his players about them ruining the adventure. A more creative Game Master, on the other hand, will take this player revolt and run with it, spinning a new plot out of the threads of the player's actions. Of course, good Game Masters rarely have their players revolt on them in the first place. A party going thoroughly and maliciously Off the Rails is often a herald of the end of the gaming group, or at least the end of one person's tenure as Game Master.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...llEveryoneDies
Quote:Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies
This is what happens in role playing games when the game master gets utterly fed up with the players: he kills them all spectacularly. -
Quote:I'll have to agree with Arcanaville on this one.Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Badges that can be acquired solo can ask the players to do anything the devs wants, but badges that require teams should never require badges to force non-badgers to do blatantly unproductive things.
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I've updated the Winter & New Year Packs in the original post. I still need the rewardtoken name for the Murder of Crows emote if anyone has it.
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Quote:I told people that in the chat, but Zwillinger missed it.Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I was concerned when I read them talking about Adobe discontinuing Flash, but when I did a quick Google search it looked like they were just discontinuing the version for mobile devices, which doesn't affect me since I have none.
Flash for desktops isn't being discontinued. -
No problem!
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Quote:Yes, and there was such an outcry that the developers backtracked on it. You may have missed it, and seeing that some people might not be able to see the reasoning, I'm going to quote it here.Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
I wonder if anyone has considered just altering the incarnate salvage system so that the low rank missions give only common and uncommon, and the mid ranks up can give rares and VR. Or something along those lines...
Update 10/24/2011 - Incarnate Rewards Changes:
As you can see, reducing rewards will not work.Quote:Originally Posted by Positron
Hey everyone,
I want you all to be aware that the development team has really taken a look at the latest change to the Incarnate System, the removal of Empyrean Merits as a reward for completing BAF or Lambda the first time that day, if youve unlocked your Lore or Destiny slots. We appreciate the feedback you have given us in this beta test and the fact that you all are so passionate about the Incarnate System as a whole.
I understand that many of you are upset by this and I agree that we were probably too heavy handed in trying to encourage players to try out the new content and storylines that we created. To that end: this change will not be going live with Issue 21 Special Update: Media Blitz. Have no fear, your Empyreans for completing those trials will not be touched.
Now to give you some perspective on why such a change was proposed in the first place, we simply were not seeing enough people completing the newer developed content for the system. Players seemed to be content in running BAFs and Lambdas to the exclusion of everything else. Our metrics dont tell us why this is the case, but you the players have spoken about it. The first two trials are more fun and take a shorter time to complete than Keyes or Underground. Even by increasing the number of Emp Merits the longer Trials give, it still did not spur the playerbase as a whole into running that content.
We definitely can and will make these trials easier, faster, and/or reward better (and the changes to Keyes is a direct result of feedback from players), however we remain concerned that the mindset has already set in: run BAF, run Lambda, ignore everything else.
This left us with very few options, one of which was to add a NEW currency that is superior to the Emp Merits, and put that on the newer Trials. The other option was to remove the top tier currency from the older trials. Adding a new currency was in the original design for the Incarnate Trials, but many voices over the past several months have complained that we have too many currencies to begin with and we tend to agree, so we shifted gears and in the end we explored the latter option. With every change we know we wont have complete acceptance; someone (or several someones) will be upset about it. This is par for the course, but even though there were people who understood what we were trying to do, several good points were made in the feedback thread which warrants our decision in not pushing this change out to Live.
What can we do to ensure that players are encouraged to play through Keyes and Underground, as well as anything else going forward? Especially if you can get the stuff you are looking for out of running the older, and therefore easier, content? Well definitely be making some further passes on the difficulties and rewards of the later Incarnate Trials, but this might not be enough. As we move into the future, if we dont see the needle move upwards on experienced Incarnates completing Keyes, Underground, TPN, and MoM to numbers comparable to BAF and Lambda then we will have to start looking at other options for the trials that come after that. Will it be a new currency? Id love for it NOT to come to that, but youve made it clear that you want to keep getting all the old currency out of the older content.
Im pretty excited about the new Incarnate Trials coming with future issues. With your help and feedback we hope that we can make these exciting, epic, and fit within your playstyles while still presenting you a challenge. As much as you players love to play them, I know the designers love to design them. Its one of the more enjoyable parts of our jobs, designing these Incarnate Trials to see just what our players are made of. What is too hard? What only appears to be too hard on the surface? I hope that the lessons weve all learned from this can help us create some awesome content.
There isn't enough interest to get many Undergrounds, TPN, and MoMs going on Triumph.Quote:Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
There's a lot of assumption in this thread. "No one likes Underground, TPN, and MoM." Um, speak for yourself. Underground is my favorite Trial. TPN isn't far behind. In fact, the only trials I don't like are Lambda and Keyes.
I could say something that would get me banned, but why bother?Quote:Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
The main two problems with these trials are 1. weak leadership, and 2. people trying to bring unlevelshifted level 50s, or level 50s that are only levelshifted +1, to them. These are not trials that are meant for them. Either one is enough to sink the trial.
One of the reasons I've stuck with this game was because it WAS NOT like any other MMOG with gearquest raiding.Quote:Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
Whether anyone likes it or not, City of Heroes became an endgame raiding game in Issue 20. Like any other MMOG with endgame raiding, they have tiers.
I too prefer to run large team content, but I'm tired of having trials fail because of how the trials allow one person to ruin the trial for up to 23 other players.Quote:Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord
No, it won't. Personally, I much prefer large team and multi-team content to solo and small team content, and most of the Incarnate trials are fun. I see myself running the new Dark Astoria content once for badges then going right on back to the Incarnate trials. I know I'm not the only one. -
My premium account has GR:Complete, so I can answer this with 100% certainty.
If you had a retail or digital copy of Going Rogue and have applied it to your account, you will get the following:- ZERO FREE CHARACTER SLOTS (+2 character slots if the code had was applied before Sept 13, but they might already been used/applied to a server.)
- NO ACCESS to the INCARNATE SYSTEM (No, it was not a part of Going Rogue. It is only open to subscribers. If you are a subscriber, you get access to the Incarnate System as a part of your subscription.)
- One month of VIP access. * (Edit: I'll assume this has already been used)
- Create a Praetorian Character
- Demon Summoning
- Dual Pistols
- Electric Control
- Going Rogue : Drink Enriche
- Going Rogue : Loyalist Protest
- Going Rogue : Praetorian Salute
- Going Rogue : Resistance Protest
- Going Rogue Alignment System
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Aura
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Belt
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Boots
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Chest
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Gloves
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Hat
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Head Detail 1
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Head Detail 2
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Pants
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Pattern
- GR CC Item Pack - Alpha Shoulders
- GR CC Item Pack - Heroic Stances
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Aura
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Boots
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Chest
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Gloves
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Hat
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Head Detail 2
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Head Texture
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Pants
- GR CC Item Pack - Omega Shoulders
- GR CC Item Pack - Villainous Stances
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Arms
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Chest
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Chest Detail
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Clockwork Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Chest
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Leggings
- GR Exp Costumes - Overguard Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Female
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Huge
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Clockwork Faces: Male
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Belt
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Chest Detail
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Helmet
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Shoulders
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Police Visor
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Beard
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Belt
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Chest Detail
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Female Hair (Resistance 1)
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Female Hair (Resistance 2)
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Goggle Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Goggle Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Mohawk
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Pants
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Shoulders Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Praetorian Resistance Shoulders Pack
- GR Exp Costumes - Sport Boots
- GR Exp Costumes - Sport Gloves
- GR Exp Costumes - Sport Shoulders
- Kinetic Melee
- Shadowy Presence Power
* +400 PP, Possibly 2 Reward Tokens: +1 for month's access, another possible +1 for owning a retail code.
Items in Orange are Going Rogue: Complete Collection items. -
Quote:Yeah, I wish I could have joined that run, but I had already promised to do something else.Originally Posted by Kay_Parfait
I know of Fusion Force successfully doing a TPN the other night.
Which is why I'm not leading trials atm. Maybe I should return to my tyrannical self.Quote:Originally Posted by Kay_Parfait
Triumph can barely pull off a BAF without failing
This would be the other reason I'm not doing trials atm.Quote:Originally Posted by TamakiRevolution
And yeah, trials get bad when everyone brings their 50+0 at the same time :P -
Quote:No. Last night, despite 20/20 Lambda sabotage objectives being accomplished, 5 doors weren't shut, despite many players asking players to look at their temp power lists for the acids. A basic play mechanic (looking through temp powers) shouldn't be the cause of a Lambda failure last night, 9 months after the trial has been introduced.Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Isn't most of this ineptness simply due to a lack of knowledge/understanding of what to do, and why, in a given trial?
I explain trial mechanics, before, during, and after trials to help players get up to speed with them. Yet still they fail because people don't want to listen. I'm willing to take my own play time and explain game mechanics to players. Are you?
The other night, I was doing a DFB, during which it was explained before we got to the Vahz boss, that no one but me (I wasn't the leader) was to pass the leader, and under no circumstances AoEs were to be used. There was a blaster that disobeyed both directives. Figuring the player was new, they were invited to a second run, with the additional directive that anyone disobeying the leader's orders would be the subject of a vote-kick. Same blaster did it again. So the vote-kick took place. It took the game a few minutes to kick them, but the player (in local despite having 4 paragon rewards tokens), asked "why?" they were then told that they didn't listen.
The DFB only failed a badge, but it had the exact same problems the Lambda did: even though everything was explained to them, a player said to the other people in the group that they could <pancake> themselves and would do whatever they wanted.
And nearly every BAF I've been on, even to this day, sequestering has been explained before, during, or after the trial, yet the same people are getting caught.Quote:Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Newcomers to the trials can't really be faulted for not knowing what sequestering is or how to deal with it properly.
I nearly always ask if someone hasn't done a trial before. I hardly ever get a response.
You are telling the wrong person that they aren't helping others understand the trial mechanics:Quote:Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Same for any other trial gimmick you care to name. Sure, the first layer of blame can be laid at the feet of the devs for constructing trials like this in the first place. But beyond that, I think it is incumbent upon the player community itself to teach/inform each wave of new players so that they aren't stuck in a position of unwittingly jeopardizing every trial they participate in.
That says it far better than I could.Quote:Originally Posted by MasterStryker
This much I am aware of....Snow knows his stuff. Whenever he is on an Itrial that fails, he stays and goes over what to do for the next run so people will know. The same can be said for badge runs of those trials.
So, Wing_Leader, you can take your accusation that veterans aren't helping to show new players the ropes and find a better place to lay the blame.
Who is to blame after being repeatedly instructed? The person that is ignoring the instruction. Who, exactly, is to blame when help and instruction is offered, but not followed up on?Quote:Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
If, after a new trial has been out for a couple of weeks, new players are still contributing less than they could due to lack of understanding, who is to blame except the veterans who have neither the skills or inclination to instruct?
Yes, they deserve a lot of the blame.Quote:Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
the devs who have put players in this position in the first place.
There comes a point where a veteran player will just walk away. That is what I'll likely be doing with Issue 22 and focusing on solo/small group Incarnate content.Quote:Originally Posted by Wing_Leader
Unless there is a very strong reason to expect future trials to be radically different in design and approach, I feel the only course left to those of us who still want to experience the Incarnate system is to roll up our sleeves and do a better job of tutoring newbies (and there is almost always at least one, as demonstrated by the fact that the opening cut scenes in BAF and Keyes rarely go unplayed, at least in my experience). -
Quote:Partly it is because every time I've seen someone post comments like that it was immediately followed by "make these harder so only the very best can do them".Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
You seem to be very sensitive to any issue that involves tiers or haves and have-nots. I am not sure how what I wrote is elitism. I was merely using that phrase to prove a point. I certainly don't think that what the developers proposed was the best solution, nor do I hope that it is immediately implemented.
Except that instead of progression, the developers have thrown players into the middle of the lake only to throw them back when they get to land. Then when a new trial comes out, they throw the players further out into the lake. What you are seeing is players telling the developers that the developers have exceeded player tolerance at being thrown in over their heads.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
There is currently very little reason for people veer from spamming BAF and Lambda should their primary goal be to gain Incarnate powers. Once you have trivialized older content by gaining levels, it should not grant the same rewards/time that it did when you first attempted it; that's a fundamental law in any RPG/MMORPG/video game. Notice that I said it should not grant the same rewards, not that it should grant no rewards what so ever.
Basically, because the developers are giving out incarnate XP, the Tiers are this:Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
It's not just about level shifts-- it's also about the powers themselves and how they can contribute. I would list the current situation as:
- Tier 1 Incarnate: BAF/Lambda/Nerfed Keyes
- Tier 2 Incarnate: Original Keyes/Underground
- Tier 3 Incarnate: TPN/MoM
- Tier 1 Incarnate: BAF/Lambda/Nerfed Keyes/Original Keyes/Underground/TPN/MoM
- Tier 1 difficulty: ITF/Khan/STF/RSF/Hami Raid
- Tier 2 difficulty: APEX/Tin Mage/CoP/Cuda
- Tier 3 difficulty: There is no tier 3 difficulty
- Tier 4 difficulty: BAF/Lambda
- Tier 5 difficulty: New Keyes
- Tier 6 difficulty: Old Keyes
- Tier 7 difficulty: Underground
- Tier 8 difficulty: TPN/MoM
I've done BAFs, Lambdas, and the original Keyes with teams with only the common and uncommon tiers of the Alpha slot. With above average players, they were not only possible but somewhat reasonable to do without level shifts or later powers (Keyes benefiting from later power though). Underground/TPN/MoM, forget it. With the average player on the live servers? I wouldn't want to do any of them without most of the team being level shifted. Even then, I'm growing increasingly apathetic about doing ANY trials because a lot of players can't seem to do the basic tasks of the older trials.
Basically, my tolerance (and my fun) of a trial goes down with the increased number of ways a trial can fail due to player ineptness. The later trials introduce more ways for that to ruin my enjoyment. -
Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
I don't think anything that I have posted in this thread is about creating an UBER-leet divide.You said this, right? That smacks of elitism to me.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
There was a proposal on Beta server to lessen the rewards of BAF and LAM at some point in a character's career and force them to move up the Incarnate content food chain so that they could properly progress. Oh how I wish this had happened.
If I'm reading you right you are saying:Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
My only expectation is that trials should function better than they currently are. Team content 1-50 was hard gated behind level requirements for Task Forces and Trials. So is each tier of content 1-50 only meant for the uber-leet? If so then I guess my expectations have ben shaped by, oh I don't know, the entire darn game then.
Proper gating whether hard or soft is required for there to be a proper difficulty progression in these trials.- Tier 1 Incarnate: BAF/Lambda
- Tier 2 Incarnate: Keyes
- Tier 3 Incarnate: Underground
- Tier 4 Incarnate: TPN/MoM
- APEX/Tin Mage with a player incarnate range of 50 to 50+1, while fighting level 54s = Synapse TF, with characters required to be level 15 or 15+1 while fighting level 21s.
- BAF with a player incarnate range of 50 to 50+3, while fighting level 54s = Synapse TF, with a character range of 15 to 20 while fighting level 21s.
- Lambda with a player incarnate range of 50 to 50+3, while fighting level 54s = Synapse TF, with a character range of 15 to 20 while fighting level 21s.
- Keyes with a player incarnate range of 50 to 50+3, while fighting level 54s = Synapse TF, with a character range of 15 to 20 while fighting level 21s.
- Underground with a player incarnate range of 50 to 50+3, while fighting level 54s = Synapse TF, with a character range of 15 to 20 while fighting level 21 critters, and level 22 AVs.
- TPN/MoM with a player incarnate range of 50 to 50+3, while fighting level 54s = Synapse TF, with a character range of 15 to 20 while fighting level 21 critters, and level 23 AVs.
- APEX/Tin Mage should be filled with level 52s (at most).
- BAF & Lambda, and Keyes should have level 53s and have a minimal level shift of +1 requirement.
- Underground should have level 54s and have a minimum of 2 level shifts.
- TPN and MoM should have limited to level 54+1 AVs and require a minimum of 3 level shifts.
Well, guess what? The trials have surpassed the players. UG/TPN/MoM aren't low level Incarnate Content, they are Incarnate Content +1, +2, +2. The trials have broken the balance between content and player abilities, both in terms of player skill and available player powers.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
That's splitting hairs. Do you know how much the purple patch penalizes a player against anything greater than +4? Against a+5 or +6 enemy, anything except for a buff class might as well not even be there.
Edit:
Or are you trying to say that:
BAF/Lambda = Positron part 1 & 2
Keyes = Synapse
Underground = Sister Psyche
TPN/Mom = Citadel
If so, then we should be getting a level shift for each trial we complete.
BAF/Lambda with a level shift in Judgement/Interface.
Keyes with a level shift in a Lore.
Underground with a level shift in Destiny.
TPN with a level shift in Hybrid.
MoM with a level shift in Genesis. -
Quote:BAFs and lambdas fail less. BAF and Lambda don't usually fail due to a single player not doing what is needed. I've talked to other trial runners (the good ones), and increasingly the desire is to avoid PUG groups entirely for the trials. We're starting to go back to doing ITFs or other content instead of any of the Incarnate Stuff.Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Right now, more than ever, it feels like the BAF and LAM trials are run over-and-over incessantly. Perhaps it is just on my server, Freedom, which has a community of players that are content to farm. But maybe the issue is more widespread.
Heck, on Triumph we didn't get that far, and now it is beginning to look like players will have to wait till Issue 22 to make significant Incarnate progress at all on Triumph.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
The first two weeks following the release of the Media Blitz update were wonderful because of the diversity of trials that were departing. I was able to join plenty of teams that would run TPN and MOM, and both Keyes and UG had a serious uptick as well.
I called that back in late October. I told people so.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
- 1- People are content to run BAF and Lambda because the reward ratio still seems to favor them.
- 2- Far too often when a MOM, Underground, or TPN gets organized there is a glut of level 50 characters that join aboard to either experience something new, or to leech the increased rewards from higher tier trials, and both motivations invariably cause a disproportionate amount of these trials to fail. This happens despite requests for characters to be level shifted to +2 minimum.
- 3- Point #2 above creates a loop of failed trials and frustrated players that reinforces the habits of point #1.
So you wanted to go from people mainly doing BAF/Lambda to very few doing the trials at all? Good luck with convincing the developers to do that.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
There was a proposal on Beta server to lessen the rewards of BAF and LAM at some point in a character's career and force them to move up the Incarnate content food chain so that they could properly progress. Oh how I wish this had happened.
The problem is that the trials have progressed, but the players haven't. In other words, the powers at the moment are geared to BAF/Lambda/New Keyes but not to UG/TPN/MoM. If you progress one side of the equation, you need to progress the other side as well.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
What should be a linear progression towards more difficult trials with the option to return to older content has become an incessant grind fest of the easiest content at the detriment of gaming experience and long term VIP retention.
UG/TPN/MoM difficulties are not balanced by the Incarnate Powers.
Yes, change your expectations that the trials are only meant for the uber-leet.Quote:Originally Posted by JuliusSeizure
Is there any way to fix this? -
Quote:Great, now I have "Pac Man Fever" running in my head.Originally Posted by Von Krieger
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Quote:That didn't answer my question, Zwillinger. An already failing trial cannot recover with that penalty in place.Originally Posted by Von Krieger
SnowGlobeCoH: Q: Why the timer penalty on the rezzes in the MoM trial? Isn't the lack of DPS enough of a penalty?
B: "The timer penalty is meant for players to bring their own rezzes, inspirations, the Rez other powers that sort of thing."
Zwillinger, please pass along to the powers that be that a Player Initiated rez should override the trial dialog box. The target has no ability to see if a player is trying to rez them.Quote:Originally Posted by Von Krieger
SnowGlobeCoH: Q: Why does it interfere with Player Rez ability? With that dialog, I always get a "target busy".
B: "You can cancel the Desdemona rez ability."
If the trial rez dialog box is present, it should automatically cancel if a player rez is available. End of story. To do otherwise (ie. the current situation) is to make a bad situation even worse. -
"Can you believe that Black Scorpion creep? Why would we want motor oil in our hot chocolate?"
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Quote:The offending comment was removed. There is nothing else I can do, but you want to keep harping on it. Therefore the problem is on your side of the screen, not mine.Originally Posted by EU_Damz
It's quite hard to ignore something when its the only data you reference though
Thats what im getting at -
Quote:10 seconds of every 30 seconds.Originally Posted by Ironblade
I *THINK* the Seedling remains spawned for 20 seconds.
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Quote:Then ignore that section and that result. Comment on the rest. There is no need to be rude. Say you don't care for the sections you feel have too little data and move on.Originally Posted by EU_Damz
All your other figures are indeed interesting but that one sample size with you commenting purely on that one figure has what made everybody think this is just another biased view on itrials.
I'll jump onto nearly any available trial. However TPN, MoM, and UG aren't getting a lot of responses on Triumph, so I have little data on them. The developers should be worried about that. They were worried about that prior to October 28 when they were going to remove the Empyrean Merit rewards from BAF and Lambda. Well, on one server at least, Keyes has shown a fairly substantial upswing since the changes on Nov. 10th. The Increased chance (I will not say assured because it isn't) at a rare or very rare hasn't changed anything as far as how often the UG is being run on Triumph. -
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Quote:Neither do I and I don't expect them to. However asking me to provide clinical trial data to that extreme is going to get the exact same type result as asking the developers to release that data.Originally Posted by Elric
Well, I don't believe they are going to give you that information nor do they have to.
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Quote:Again, the only people with that data aren't sharing. If you are that convinced my methods don't have controls, then get the developers to share their data.Originally Posted by Dogma
Your data is unreliable. You are not controlling for any variables that determine drop rates outside of completing the trial. Any conclusions you may draw based on this fundamentally flawed data are wrong or right by accident.
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Quote:To be blunt: the only people with access to that kind of data are not sharing it. The only group with that data are the developers, and you know it.Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
Also, sample size is indeed too small. If you got say 5-10 people together (because running 4000 trials yourself is obviously a stretch) and had them all record their drop rates as you did and compile the results, then that would work to prove a point.