AresSupreme
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Posts
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Quote:This is why people roll spines stalkers and now KM stalker. You have to make a choice. It's the basic premise of any mmo.Originally Posted by FourSpeed
So, your basic premise then, is if a stalker has to have tri-level stealth to even
have a prayer in SC - that's ok by you.
If a Stalker has to try to get an AS off (that won't actually kill anybody), from visible
melee range, without it getting interrupted by movement or aura against a fast
moving target, that's ok with you.
If a Stalker can't even use a follow-up attack due to not having ranged powers,
that's ok with you.
But if a Stalker spikes you with Sharks, that's game-breaking and you feel a
compelling need to scream "Foul!" to the devs and call for a nerf...
Ok - I think I have a pretty clear understanding of your whiny position now...
Carry On.
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Quote:This had better not be Awake and Alive.Originally Posted by FourSpeed
And your SC Stalker's name is?
They're easy to play if you like being dead a lot...
They're easy to play if you don't care about getting kills.
Note: I've stated that I'm against Sharks as the *only* tool a Stalker should use.
That said, my particular stalker (NB/Nin) does not *have* a ranged attack unless
I use Sharks or Nemmie Staff.
Maybe if something like Caltrops actually worked in zone - I wouldn't need one.
Of course, that's why everyone takes SJ/SS, so they can completely ignore
them.
So, your answer then is - pick another powerset, noob...
Right, and *that* more than anything is what is wrong about PvP - most powersets
are crap in PvP - which is why you typically see the same 1/2 dozen ATs.
That brings me full-circle to - devs need to fix (or delete) PvP...
It's not about this or that power - it's about a seriously crappy system and
implementation in the first place...
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Quote:"But it's def not my #1 it's just the most recent. It is also an extremely easy fix" -Ares SupremeOriginally Posted by Borderline Boss
The majority of the PvP population, as represented in this thread, agree that sharks are OP, but also realize it's not on the top of the list. There are too many problems to make further threads like these. I hope you can open your eyes and see what a mistake you're making. Spirit Sharks in SC??? Try TS, HD, TK, stalagmites, AS does no dam, etc etc etc! You need to prioritize yourself or get lost!
Not to mention i've gone on record to fully support the PVP community in the removal or TS and HD and will continue to do so.
Thread Read Fail. -
Quote:Which you've stated like 15 times. You don't agree. I get it.Originally Posted by FourSpeed
No - you're expressing opinions: Sharks is OP, Blasters are less survivable
than Stalkers, Stealthed toons are easy to see, etc.
How do you measure these so-called facts?
Kill ratio? Rep? Bounty? SC Zone-control?
Opinions...
Stealth is easy to see? Try following Vegita-Beta around sometime...
Survivable? Ask -DriveBy about that...
He's a very "successful" PvPer, with several ATs, but I'd bet his kill ratio
with Stalkers is fairly low - ie. he gets killed as often (or more) than he
kills.
Stalkers are "surviable" when they *don't* engage.
But, in most cases, a lone stalker usually gets summarily ganked as soon as he's
detected, unless he plays a very conservative style (as mine do).
If he hasn't built for capped Stealth by SC time, he's pure farm bait.
So, no - I dispute your "facts", and our opinions distinctly differ. No worries
or animosity there, I simply disagree that Sharks should be removed from SC,
although, as I've previously stated, tweaks might be warranted (true for a LOT
of things in PvP imho).
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Quote:Let's pretend your execution was anything but condescending. Ignore all my logic. Typical. Not that the entire PVP community is small fraction of the game as a whole. It is easy for PVE player to say well "To hell with PVP changes, no one pvps. More cat girl tails please!"Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
Just because you don't agree with something please don't deem it "idiotic". If people did this, every post you've made in your life would be considered "idiotic".
Reread everything i just wrote about 10x then realize why I called your particular statement idiotic. NOT every statement anyone ever wrote. -
Quote:Or realize how idiotic that statement is when you consider how small the PVP community is compared to the PVE community. Thanks.Originally Posted by Borderline Boss
I see what you're trying to do here Ares, but this should be at the very bottom of the priority list. I say leave it alone, nobody uses Sirens anyway. Please file an in-game petition for stuff like this that doesn't really matter, instead of clogging our forums. Thanks.
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Quote:I haven't exaggerated anything I have stated pure fact. And you are damn right it is worse than being spiked by a blaster. And I love how you throw "stealthed" in there as if "stealthed" players are hard to see or something. Stalkers are far easier to survive on in SC than ANY blaster and that is no exaggeration. You are basically saying a stalker should be able to do as much damage as a blaster from range by comparing it to a blaster...Originally Posted by FourSpeed
It's no more an exaggeration on my part than his.
The *only* way for a Stalker to get an AS kill is to essentially "kill-steal" against
an already damaged player.
Without a ranged follow-up, you're not going to get a follow-up at all against
most SJ/SS bunny-hoppers.
If you do the crit first, you probably don't get an AS at all.
So, basically, he's complaining that someone spiking him from range with Sharks
is somehow worse than being spiked from range with Psi by stealthed blasters
or Doms...
Sorry, I'm not buying it.
If the Devs want to tweak recharge or damage of Sharks somewhat, I'm more or less
ok with that (depending on how ridiculous they get), but to remove it entirely,
nope...
Regards,
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Quote:This I can totally sign off on.Originally Posted by The Katalyst
I think you are exaggerating his point a little, Stalkers never had Sharks in Sirens until i21, and they did fine with AS and follow up attacks. I don't think it's outrageous to believe that they are more powerful in Sirens then RV or arena (Sharks), and I can understand why one might want them taken out.
Even still, if something was done to tweak Stalkers, I would rather it be a small nerf to Stalker ranged attacks followed by a buff to AS to compensate, so that people HAVE to use AS again, but still have it be worthwhile. -
Quote:DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!Originally Posted by FourSpeed
So, basically, what you're essentially calling for is Stalkers to be removed from
the game, given that their effectiveness has continually de-volved pretty much
since PvP was rolled out.
That is exactly what i'm calling for by saying drop a single power 3 tiers down. -
Quote:Same EXACT logic PVE players use. PVP is 1% of the market etc etc...meanwhile im wasting tons of money on stupid enhancement slots and such.Originally Posted by SmegHead
But to be honest, sirens is so dead its not worth the time putting in a fix for this. How many players would actually benefit from it? Maybe 1% if that.
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Quote:Maybe in RV but in SC sharks is all yah need baby.Originally Posted by FourSpeed
So, on the one hand, we (as Stalkers) suck if we don't AS, and on the other
hand we're idiots if we're actually good enough to use it...
Once again - sorry, but nope, I'm not with you on this one either.
Regards,
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Quote:of course it's low you probably don't even know where sirens is let alone play there lol.Originally Posted by The Katalyst
I can see why Sharks would be a bigger deal in Sirens, as everything generally has lower HP, much lower resistance, and just lower survivability in general, especially taking things like Incarnates into consideration, as well as the fact that some people don't take phase or Hib at Siren's level.
That said, this would be pretty low on my priority list of fixes I would like to see done to PvP.
But it's def not my #1 it's just the most recent. It is also an extremely easy fix. -
Quote:Originally Posted by FourSpeed
Sorry, no sale.
Not that I completely disagree, mind you. But, as others have noted, there
are a metric crapton of powers that are "unbalanced", and Sharks would be
one of them on the list.
As a stalker myself, there are two primary concerns I have.
AS - won't kill anybody by itself... I'm actually ok with that.
However, with nearly everyone being a SJ/SS bunny-hopping, super speeder,
AS is challenging to get off in the first place, given it's a melee power, long
activating, and interruptible with movement, all against a foe that can probably
see you at melee range to begin with....
It's hardly surprising that many stalkers simply don't get good enough to use AS
all that much to begin with in PvP.
But the second part, with Stalkers being melee based, is said Bunny Hopper is
gonna be long gone for the follow-up strike even if an AS is landed.
So, even with AS, a ranged follow-up is a key ingredient for a stalker to get a
kill at all against anyone other than a complete moron.
I'm not a fan at all of Sharks being the *only* tool a (bad) stalker uses, but a hard
hitting ranged power is important for a stalker given the current climate.
So, nope - /unsigned
Regards,
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PS> And yes, Ares - I *do* play in SC, pretty much exclusively, as you probably already know
In SC you'd be an idiot to ever use AS at this point. -
Quote:So in other words you DO NOT play in Siren's Call. A simple no would have done it.Originally Posted by Crusherina
Yes, I 'used' to play in Siren's call three years ago when brutes actually had a chance. Yes, I used to play when a stalker could 'one hit' just about every blasted thing in the zone, IN Siren's Call nonetheless.
What? Do the sharks give you bad memories? Are you scared of the 'water' in the zone?
Sir, you cannot say that you do not care about the use/damage/power itself if you are sitting here wanting the power rearrangement. Either adapt to the sharks/stalkers or pick up your head in pride and try another zone where you would 'have a better chance(?).'
Can we just take out everything in the game that does more than 30 damage? Oh better yet, let me put on my safety harness and helmet, I don't want to hurt myself 'super jumping'.
There are going to be 'over-powered' functions in this game, but guess what, not everything can be equal. Each AT needs a specialty our there might as not be a choice in ATs if they are going to do the same damage/buff/debuff in the end.
And with that,
-FLING FLING FLING FLING-
This is for all the SC players who will almost unanimously agree spirit sharks has no place in level 30 PVP. This has NOTHING to do with pride...don't be silly.
Stalkers can't one hit things anymore because the mechanic was broken and has since been fixed.
How will a change of the power placement hurt you? It won't. So leave this argument to players who this actually effect.
The irony of all of this is the PVP community as a whole is the underdog. Don't pretend like any other aspect of PVP matters more. Just because the more organized players who specialize in team PVP come to the forums more it doesn't represent the community as whole. Go ahead and troll the thread with crap that doesn't have anything to do with the topic.
Same song and dance. Siren's Call players have an issue with spirit sharks. Couple players who have nothing to do with the subject troll the thread. Go figure. Other players who have nothing to do with the issue put their two cents in and tell you to "get over it" "go to another zone" as if these are viable solutions. If we just "get over" everything. It just says this game is perfect and always has been and nothing ever needs to be fixed. please...
As for the 10 seconds to react. Yeah factor in TS and open zone gameplay. We aren't talking about you having a concentrated stalker target in a 1 v 1 situation. Let's be realistic people. -
Quote:Do you play siren's call? A yes or no answer will do.Originally Posted by Crusherina
Or leave as is since as you said, it can be easily 'brushed off' at a higher level pvp zone. As I see it, you basically want this 'nerf' to fit your special needs. If you can't handle stalkers in Siren's move on to 'Burg or Victory. Or you can even tell the stalkers to move, but you can't please everyone eh?
I just don't believe in punishing an AT for something it SHOULD do, which is to 'assassinate' using the tools it has at hand. If it takes more than five hits or attack chains on a stalker to kill something, I would feel highly ashamed of myself.
In siren's call it takes two hits in a stalkers attack chain. Remember we aren't talking level 50 PVP -
Freedom and Freedom ONLY
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Quote:Once again I don't care what happens to the powers itself or its usage. Just move it down a few powers so it is NOT available at level 30.Originally Posted by Crusherina
I did not say Sharks was not a hard hitter. I was stating the fact that there are 'ranged' powers amongst the stalker set. I mean honestly, if I can't get an AS off of a ranged toon of course I'm going to fling some sharks at it. That's like saying I couldn't 'use' my energy melee on my ice/em in 1v1's because as a blaster she 'should' be a ranged toon. (Yes I know, ice is horribad) It's the same concept, I will adjust to my surroundings and will fling/strike if needed/can.
And I know for a fact that as a 'ranger' you would never get 'close' to me to begin with knowing that I do have the power of the placate and with travel suppression to move onto you fast for an AS. So common sense, fling sharks.
Shark Fling<- Instead of a nerf, it needs a rename. -
Quote:lol let's compare 'impale' and 'focused burst' to 'sharks'Originally Posted by Crusherina
One, don't go into Siren's Call for starters.
Two, why don't just get rid of stalkers completely? (AH HA! Sarcasm)
Three, remember the days of a real assassin strike? Oh yeah..
Not a ranged toon you say? Then why does spine and kinetic have 'ranged' powers built in like focused burst and that spine throwy thingy or focus on claws?
Point being, stalkers are meant to do damage. If I recall correctly, we gave up 'hit points' for damage, 'crits' is just the name of the game. Do you want to nerf every other power that 'crits' as well? Shall we just get rid of stalkers/scrappers completely? As you swoosh away on your range toon, do you want me to just sit there and smile as you take cheap shots? Or get an AS off so you can cry about that being 'overpowered' as well?
If you keep nerfing stalkers I'm just going to cry, and we don't want that now do we?
Sharks Impale FocusedB
Dmg: 362 136 101
Rech: 6s 8s 8s
Cast: 2.43 3 2s
Once you IO all of those powers the dmg difference is much larger.
Before I get into the real techical jargon i'll just say the proposal is to simply switch the placement placement in the pool set. Tanks for instance don't get fossilize at this level for a reason.
The "Nerf Nerf Nerf" is more of an attention grabber. At 50 they are annoying as hell but once you slot and get accolades you can brush them off but at level 30 there is no chance in hell. -
NERF NERF NERF NERF!!!!!!!!!
-No squishy has enough HP at this level to withstand spirit sharks
-Epic shields for all ATs besides fenders and corrs ARE not available at this level
-Even at roughly 900HP the friggin things still two shot
-A stalker IS NOT a ranged toon in case you forgot
-Overpowered at level 50, EXTREMELY BROKEN at lvl 30
*Consider switching the placement of Spirit Shark with Spirit Shark Jaws in the Leviathan Pool* -
Quote:=D!!!! here's my money TAKE IT TAKE IT ALL!!Originally Posted by GuyPerfect
Not sure we can do almost. The current design spec calls for better. Will that do?
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As long as it's ALMOST as good and ALMOST as frequent on updates i'll be content! Not to mention i wont have to split screen my laptop when building toons in game
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But i wannit. * hands over wallet*
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Long story short i would pay real life money for a mids iphone app!
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Quote:This is also true and makes it that much harder. Not that 10 more km/regens will make league that much more exciting anyway lol. Imma gonna give it a shot. Call me crazy but i'll search PVE for some dedicated players and see what happens.Originally Posted by hemmingway3
People in zone will just as soon berate an arena player as they would a droner... It's difficult to have a discussion in broadcast about the ongoing league (or anything) when it is so cluttered with "mad cuz bad" and "omfg u so noob." Partially for that reason, there are moderated forums here and a Guildportal site for the league.
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Here's an outside perspective.
Most casual pvpers have no clue what league is and even if they do there is a very vague understanding. I rarely hear anything official about league in zone PVP. Hell, even in zone.