Aisla

Well, I've reread it, and your reply now, and it has become a bit more clear.

Having also just read Stasis' reply, I must concur, I fully agree with what she said.

Edit to Stase; It did make sense, hun, my brain just wasn't functioning the first time around for reasons now removed.

Then I misunderstood, I apologise.

Well, a forum is fair enough, but a forum for what exactly? A specific roleplaying group, or for all roleplayers on CoH combined?

Can I ask you how long you've been playing? This just to see how many of the limitations you've come across, because you speak of taverns to meet up in. (Could be I misunderstood, but that is what it came across as to me)

There are no taverns where all heroes can meet. Even SG bases are limited, because you'd either have to invite people in a team and let them in, then repeat the process until everyone's in, or you'd have to get a very specific coalition together, so you can use other SG's bases. This restricts you in many ways.

You might be better off copying the idea of GG, and create a new place, somewhere where low levels can also enter the area, so you can use NPC's, and start a thread, like the '9PM under Galaxy Girl's Skirt' thread on Union, where people can relay their events of the night, so people can keep up with what's going on even if they're not there.

Seconded, or thirded, really. (That is, if I get my old job back once I am ready for it. )

Also, bare in mind that everything needs to take off first, and that takes time. Not everyone reads the same threads and indeed, there are people who do not read the forums at all. It'll be word of mouth to some. Just give it some time.

I am going to make it my life's task, to seek out the software required and teach myself, an absolute technophobe, to do this...

Brilliant work, incredibly pretty, Wauw!

Edit: I also cannot believe I missed this... Ah, hold on, no, I know why, didn't frequent much around April due to circumstances.

I think what Ghosty means, is; isn't it easier to leave the space in between out, to prevent people from typing in the wrong channel as they franticly compose their ic message?

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Okay. Thanks again Aisla. You really are 'mum' aren't you. Heh.


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Well, I care, what can I say.

[Deleted on grounds that I didn't feel right about it, it'll get its own thread]

Before you run off and make something that isn't finished, please try and finish the concept before starting it. I can understand you're enthousiastic, but I emphasize this, as I would like to see this work, rather than flop (as I said, I might be interested, so it's partly self-interest too ).

Racing ahead with something without having a basic strategy plan, or just winging it, might put you before things you had not thought of before and might give you trouble.

I like the idea it makes things a lot easier, but I'd like to make a suggestion.

Not all heroes know Pious, but almost everyone knows Herocorpse and freedomcorpse. Perhaps weaving them into the background, might give more people an ic reason to join?

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Can it be said that your characters exist only in secluded, not-open-for-all environments which you might describe as elitist and to be a bad thing?


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Nope, arather rude assumption, I think. Just because their background is a certain way, does not mean that they are meant for secluded, SG only roleplay. I roleplayed happily, every night, all night at GG with them, interacting with many who were not in my SG.

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I wouldn’t call secluded elitist. They are not the same. All rp that does not take place in a place everyone knows to be there is sort of secluded. Rp in bases is secluded. A group doing a mission in a dungeon is secluded. Coile and Coila standing on a road in Skyway chatting is secluded after a fashion as it is not advertised anywhere. Which makes sense as two people talking about personal things usually do that with no others around.

People have the right to play wherever they wish and with whomever they wish - and also consequently without anyone they wish. I see a parallel in old skool GG’ers saying how much [censored] there is at GG these days and that they want to do their smaller scale rp elsewhere. Perfectly fine, imho.

I might have missed your point. Are you saying that rp that is not open for any and all who might want to take part is bad in any given form?


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Another crude, and rather rude assumption, you are coming across to me, now, as trying to flame my comments. My questions were open questions, and you are answering with rather accusing closed questions to me. Be ware of your behaviour, please, or I will cease this discussion on grounds that I do not wish to be pulled into a degrading thing such as that.

You're also contradicting yourself. You first make it out, that in order for this, you need to be part of a select number of SG's, thus limiting the people, yet you say everyone has a right to play where ever, when ever. How can you, when you have no access to something they would like to be a part of?

I am not talking about personal roleplay, I am talking about rp on a larger scale. You seem to misunderstand the two.

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New ideas come along all the time. Now it is this idea’s turn. Not all ideas, supergroup concepts, meeting places etc. are for all.


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No, but at least there's the option. Again, free choice.

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I would say that depends a lot. Sword of Truth (Diurne) wasn’t known to me at all in advance. She was hanging around GG the same time we were and came to us. When we decided to go take care of a job we asked her if she wanted to come along. We’re all heroes and the job was fighting for justice and order so there was no other reasons needed to ask her along. In a few days she was regarded as a friend and an ally, and in about a week she was invited to Tempest. Now I would see Tempest to be less if she decided to leave.

It may take long of course, but not necessarily. Depends on the character and person, really.


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Exactly, and even then, who is to give me the promise my character would be allowed in at all?

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Are you maybe mixing two ideas here? Looks to me like you are discussing Battleflag’s IC mission group concept. The coalition would be “on” at all times, and everywhere.

Why would it be a problem if anything by the coalition OR the Militia happened at the same time as GG? It goes on all the time, without rifts. Old skool GG’ers can be doing their own things instead of hanging around GG all night long.

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You're still not getting my point. I have explained it many times, I am tired of repeating myself, and have better things to do with my time.

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All can join, it’s just a matter of effort. Creating a brand new char is always an option. It’s just a matter of choosing to do so.

I notice that on one hand you claim that GG is for all, and on the other you say it isn’t. If even GG isn’t for all, why would anything else have to be?

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You're twisting my words again, something I very much dislike. GG isn't for all -by choice-, it's open to all, but if you cannot find yourself in it, that's fine. At least you got the chance to experience it for yourself. It's a matter of choice. This coalition, isn't about free choice, it's about what we always defend GG from being; a clique where you have to jump through hoops in order to be part of it.

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All can join, it’s just a matter of effort. Creating a brand new char is always an option. It’s just a matter of choosing to do so.

I notice that on one hand you claim that GG is for all, and on the other you say it isn’t. If even GG isn’t for all, why would anything else have to be?

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You sure assume a lot. I generalise? You are very quick to jump to a conclusion, my friend. I think I have seen enough of your behaviour, and even if I would have been interested in taking part, all of that is now gone, and if this means that you take all those who think like you away at times, then I embrace your idea with both arms.

I am sick of the bickering, I am sick of trying to help make the community a better place for everyone. I am sick of people like you, who put words in people's mouths and assume rather than sit down and understand.

It never was about negating your idea, or anyone else's, it was meant so as to make you think about my initial questions, and maybe better your idea. But if you are so arrogant as to presume you know it all, and think, that SWG is like CoH, or that the two in any way are alike, then you do not deserve my well-meant imput.

Good day to you, I will no further post or even comment on this thread.

Hey, I'm not the groutchy old cow some people may think I am. I just try to keep an open mind, and in so doing try to keep other people's mind open. I know it comes across as being the devil's advocate at times, and even trolling on occasion to the really narrowminded, but it generally comes from a good heart.

It still holds, though, though more so for the every evening meet up than the just Thursday one, what I stated before.

Alas I cannot join on Thursdays, as I am already playing in a virtual tabletop game on those evenings, otherwise I would certainly have given it a go. Thus emphasizing what I said about the daily meets, though. But I've pointed that out enough now.

Okay, with all due respect. Please check the history in the Roleplay threads. It has been suggested so many times before, I am sure some of it is still around from after the boardwipe.

Please, it's been had, a million times over. I know you mean well, and I applaud you for your willingness to work for this community. Don't dredge up that old cow.

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I'm honestly not trying to control anything. As a demonstration of how little I want to control things, here you are: If you want I'll post a cancellation notice on everything I've said about the IC meet up.

Aisla, I have no wish to disagree with you in any way so please don't see the tone of this as being that. Would you like me to Cancel the whole idea? It really isn't a problem.

Battleflag

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Cancel? Heck no. I like the idea, in fact, I found myself somewhat disappointed I came across it too late, as I would have liked to have given it a go as well.

What I am trying to get at, is that in organising something like this, which can be such a good thing, you also need to bare in mind the things outside your idea.

Strange as this may sound, after having played the devil's advocate both here and on the other tread, I hope it succeeds and becomes something good. But I believe in order for it to succeed, you need to keep in mind many of the points I have made here and in the other thread, so as to -avoid- problems with those issues, rather than cancel the idea in its entirety.

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Yes, maybe you're stuck because of what you choosed for your characters, how you designed them, all you played them.
You won't discard them, change their background, you won't create or develop a new character because it doesn't appeal to you.

All of this is tied to *your* decisions.
I respect your choices and gaming style but don't make them a general rule.

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The chicken or the egg discussion. You say I won't change them, I say I can't. They have been long established characters, I can't simply -just- change something in their backkground, or de-allign them from their SG. What in the world would the justification be, aside from just being ooc? Sorry, but I don't believe in just adjusting my character's entire story, just to fit it into something to fit the occasion. Then what's the point of even roleplaying??

Sorry, but this isn't something you can just put on my shoulders as though it is just my problem, it isn't.

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As it was stated very often on those very boards, Galaxy Girl meetings are not for everyone too.
GGers often had to refute the reputation of being elitist or "a clique".It was never seen as a problem, it was just "yeah, GG is not for everyone"

So we have :

Supergroups which are not for everyone
GG meetings which are not for everyone

So, why on earth should a coalition be for everyone ?

Rules are clear : you want to participate to a coalition, join a SG which is in.

You don't want to join a SG ?
It doesn't prevent you at all to try to approach the various participating SGs and tag along them.
Where is the problem ?

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The problem, is in free choice. No, GG isn't for everyone, but at least people are free to chose whether to attend or not. The whole reasoning behind it, is an open space, for everyone to roleplay, regardless of your SG, character background etc. It is for one and all, but the choice, is yours.

This, is leading to an 'elite' 12 SG's. People don't have a choice. You want in, you join one of the 12. Sure, you might be able to tag along (and I say might, for a reason), if you're not alligned with the 12, but for what purpose? You won't be able to follow the coalition chat, and how would you know about it in the first place as an individual?
So frankly, it's join or die. You either adjust and fit into the regime, or you're an 'outcast'. Tell me, where's the free choice in that?

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Sorry, but it's not a discussion about Galaxy Girl meetings even if I understand why you are speaking about them and the "possible" rift.

You say some GGers could be involved into this and the time dedicated to that will flow into GG time.
Actually, many regular GGers already have 0 problems to not come by the statue when they want to do missions. Coalition or not.

And what if people enjoy more doing missions (IC or not) than coming at the statue ?

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Again, you're confusing two entirely different things. There is a difference, with about 8 people showing up late, and 12 SG's not showing with their active members.

Also, what is wrong with coordinating those activities at GG, where everyone present, regardless of their SG, can get involved? Why does there need to com a special SG coalition, where only the elite 12 can coordinate their ic actions?

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Fair comment.

Battleflag

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Then why proceed, like, pardon the expression, a bull in a chinashop with what -you- want to do, and stop and listen to those around you, including those indirectly involved?

Or do you presume to take control of people, in which case I must point to a very similar discussion had on another thread in this section, the nature of roleplay. Again, this is something that can disrupt character interaction at GG, as this is undoubtedly goingto end up in prolongued sessions, thus creating a rift between two groups, at times in people who belong to both groups. Why would you go through the hassle? If you try and combine the two, it has a much larger chance of succession as then, really, you will be giving people a choice, instead of creating two seperate points, where instead of chosing roleplay, they would have to chose people.

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Aisla

I do bare everyone's opinion in mind but the best I can do is go with those I agree with. This should not do any harm to the GG crowd and anyone who isn't interested doesn't need to have anything to do with it. I haven't moved anything so much as given another option.


Battleflag

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I think you're contradicting yourself here, mate. No offence, but how can you say in the same sentance that you listen to everyone's opinion, but go with the one you agree with.

Sorry, but that's dictatorship.

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Aisla

The different location is in response to a comment by RedCommissar about Keeping out of each other's way if we want, and being close enough to mingle if we want.


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But that is just one person's opinion, this is mine. I think that before anyone moves anything anywhere, you need to bare in mind the opinions of all those directly or indirectly involved.

Right, all nice and dandy, but let me sketch a scenario for you here. I, for instance, have been craving a new roleplay venue, a place to go to other than GG. I actually quite like this idea as a basic thing, and think that it might possibly be a good thing. I’d like to give it a try, but I am stuck. None of my characters are in the designated groups that might come together in this. The IC SG’s I am in with some of my characters, would not easily form alliances, nor would they easily let members in.

Those characters are established characters, I cannot simply discard them, or cut them from their alliance. Nor can I change their background. My fault, my character, I hear you say. But what you are forgetting, both you and Diurne, that this idea has only just come to the surface. Had it been in place sooner, there would have been time allowed for change or altering. There was also no need, as regardless of the SG, GG is equal for all. So no, it’s not a choice as the choice was never there to begin with, not until now.

Then there’s the characters who I have floating about, who are technically backgroundless characters. Even with a new character, it would take ages to establish an alliance and roleplay my way into a group so that I could join in.
Having been on both sides of the fence, I can safely say, that secluded roleplay, or elitist roleplay as it is generally called, is a bad thing. I cannot think of a singular time when it hasn’t caused grief in one form or another.

Say some of the GG’ers get involved in this, and get taken away from GG (Cause let’s face it, 2 hours to do ic missions, specially when things go well, is not enough, so I am positive there will be plenty of times when this time flows into the GG time), you will see rifts getting created which will lead to all sorts of problems.
This is why I think it actually -is- very important, to make this open for all, and shouldn’t be brought to life unless there is a plan in place to accommodate all who wish to join, no exception there.

You go on about your experience on SWG, well, please allow me to tell you where I get my views from. I have been a professional (yes, paid) GM in an MMORPG and later moved on to co-run a very successful NwN module for over a year. I have seen all sorts of things happen in game worlds. Seclusion, bullying, brilliant backgrounds, roleplay that moved me to tears and very resourceful usage of game restrictions and the like, I’ve seen it all. What people tend to forget when they create a group within an existing world, though, and apply their own rules to it, it soon becomes an elitist group, who will be viewed as stuck up etc. They lose their view of the game world and all the other people in it. It’s not something that happens overnight, it sneaks up on them, and by the time it comes out, they have no view of the potential wrongs, but only the rights through their eyes.

Please bare in mind, these are just words of caution, as I can see no other scenario than the two eventually clashing on a regular basis which will inevitably result in the two groups being entirely divided and perhaps even hateful to each other.

Okay, question. If it is going to be at 7, why not just add it onto GG? Just start at 7, at GG. It might get GG started earlier, which is something many people have been asking for anyway. Then either people can go on patrols, or they can stay at GG.

Right, and that, is already in place. It's called GG. It's an IC rendez-vous, every night, at 9 PM, under the Galaxy Girl statue. No coalitions, no restrictions. It's informal, flexible, everything you ask for.

That's what I am trying to say. It is already in place. That is how it started, a group of people using that place as a get together, to discuss missions, troubles and life. It is about the top notch of what the game mechanics allow. And there is nothing stopping anyone, from meeting up there earlier than 9 pm.

But please, do not try and re-invent the egg in a way that limits people, which is how this whole thing is coming across to me. I know it's meant well, and the thoughts are appreciated, but as I said, it's already in place, and a lot more open than what so far, the ideas on this thread suggest.

Believe me. I have been playing this game for over a year, since March last year. Many debates about this subject have been had, but thus far, and again here, we stumble on the matter of seclusion, which is what negated all the other ideas as well in one form or another.

Sorry hun, but I think you're overreacting a bit here. Look at the wider picture. Basically, what you're now saying is; I don't care if there will be people left out, as long as I have my little group of people to play with, and I am going to sit here and ignore those who cannot join and their problems.

That's what it's coming across as, to me.

I can see how some may find it hypocritical for me to be pointing this out, what, with the Vigil and the GoD as IC SG's. But that's just it. I have seen what it can do on the outside. I have realised how miserable people feel when they feel left out of a roleplaying group.

That is exactly why I am pointing this out. Because it was ignored before, and made quite a few people feel pretty bad about it and I want to prevent that from happening again.

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Can't we just play it by ear?

Why does it have to be planned/tweaked/altered/scrapped before we've even tried it out?

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Simple, because I see a closed roleplay group forming. I already pointed out, I do not have a character who could join. I am simply asking some questions, because, frankly, I can imagine people would feel left out. (That isn't to say I necessarily do, but given my characters backgrounds, I can vividly imagine the problems involved.)

So I sling the question back to you; Why do people want to overlook obvious problems? Why can't things be thought out properly beforehand to negate possible problems?

But what about SG's who will not, for rp reasons of their own, join this coalition? Are they to be cast out?

I'm sorry, but I see quite a few flaws here, and feel the need to point them out before they become problems.
Are there new SG's to be created for this plan, new toons? As I know a few SG's who would not coalition themselves with 'strangers'. Also, I see a lot of individuals, who don't really have an IC SG, are they to be left out?

Like it or not, this doesn't seem as open an idea as, say, GG is. Just to give you a basic example, myself. I would have no character who would be able to join in this. 50% are in an OOC SG, the others are in an SG, but wouldn't go around blotting things with complete strangers. They have established backgrounds, have been around for ages...
Am I to be left out if I have the desire to join?

Also, what would be the ic justifcation for the coalition, the relationships of the individual characters within the group? You can think mechanics over a million times ooc, but if it doesn't fit ic, it's just waisted time.