yasfan

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But, and here's a thing. The guide isn't titled "an analysis of the pros and cons of Dark Armor", it's plainly titled to match the fact the point is to describe potential reasons you should not play it.

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Ah, OK. Well, if we're at the point where you're saying "hey, I'm not trying to be _fair_, I'm trying to get you to not play DA. Didn't you read the title, f'r crying out loud?", then I think I can stop spending my time trying to have a reasoned debate with you.

I'd also like to say that Haetron has been very calm, patient, and reasonable during his responses, at least in the sense that this hasn't ignited a flame war or gotten ugly. Given the level of resistance he's gotten, that's a good thing. Thanks, Haetron.

On the other hand, I've read a lot of guides for ATs--it's one of the first things I do when I pick a powerset. They're very rarely all sweetness and light--generally they note powers that are really useful, powers that are situational, and powers that are just too weak to ever make sense in practice. And they're very handy.

This is not one of those, and you only need to read the title of the thread to be clear on why. It's not an assessment of relative strengths and weaknesses, it's an argument piece that says, literally, that you should never play a DA brute. That's why I keep coming back to the point that there are many points of comparison between DA and other sets that really aren't fair.

To take an example, Haetron hasn't, despite his claims to the contrary, "proven" that DA has mediocre Toxic resistance--he's compared DA, which has a good Toxic resistance that is on a toggle, with powersets that get better Toxic resistance by using Tier 9 boosts to DR. This is like comparing apples to oranges. Those boosts are temporary and on a long recharge timer. They are highly situational.

Should I respond that DA has a _MAG 30_ PBAoE stun in its Tier 9? I mean, WHOA. Mag _30_. "Going by the numbers", DA Brutes can control better than Uber-Doms, with a vastly superior stun, plus resistances, high HP, and tons of high melee damage. Except, of course, that this Mag 30 stun is highly situational. It's not fair to pretend that a DA Brute can just click it on whenever they want, and I wouldn't. Haetron, on the other hand, is doing exactly this with the resistance values for several other sets.

He is deeply disturbed by Dark Regen for a number of reasons that are not unique to Dark Regen. Consume is very similar to Dark Regen, only for END instead of health. It's PBAoE, so if you don't have a mob around, it's not as powerful. It's also got an ACC check. It's vital, because if you have no END, you have no armor and you die. Similar limitations apply to Energy Drain. But Energy Drain and Consume are just fine to Haetron. Dark Regen isn't. That's not a fair assessment.

He is peeved by the fact that we keep pointing out that DA's hole in KB protection is easily filled by an IO in one slot. But it doesn't bother him that EA's lack of a self-heal must be filled with, in his own words, a "well-slotted" tier2 power pool choice. That's not a fair assessment.

Haetron's post IS a rant, albeit one kept in the "inside voices" volume range.

A fair assessment would be one that says "DA Brutes have powers that make them really strong when fighting against a room full of opponents, but rather weak against single, Mez-protected superbads. They won't be hunting AVs while solo, and of course one-on-one PvP isn't going to be their strong point either. So if you do a lot of fighting against the lone uberopponent and like to tell everyone how you did the LRSF alone, DA is probably not for you. But there's no better Brute to have around when you've got some nitwit on the team who just aggroed 5 mobs--those baddies will be so busy trying to decide whether to cower or stagger that the DA Brute will mop the floor with them and look good doing it."

So in summary, you just don't see the point of many--um, in fact, all--of the things that others might call strengths of DA (very high Psi resistance; high Negative resistance; good Toxic resistance; a stun toggle; a fear toggle; a good damage/end trade-off on the PBAoE attack toggle; +Perception; Stealth). Situational. Rarely useful. Bleh.

You also find it at very least noteworthy that DA has weaknesses that are shared by other Brute powersets (lack of resistance to Taunt, Placate, Confuse; lack of ranged powers; the ACC check on Dark Regen) and needs to fix its lack of KB protection with a single slot containing an IO.

On the other hand, you're not similarly bothered by similar problems in other powersets (EA has to fix its lack of a heal power by using at least two of your power choices and several slots; Consume and Power Drain both have ACC checks). And you're not bothered by the highly situational nature of DR boosting that is part of many of the other Brute powersets.

Sound about right to you? To be sure, I'm not arguing that DA is better than other Brute powersets--but I think your case that it is unambiguously worse is very unconvincing.

Plus, I'm enjoying my DA Brute.

All in all, I found your summary to be an interesting read. I am having a little trouble with some of your points though--it seems rather biased. Maybe you can clarify for me...

1. So you're saying that DA sucks because it has control powers. Interesting. I kinda get the impression from hearing others that this is not a common complaint. Is building Fury the only thing that a Brute should consider when choosing powers? Do DA users have problems getting to full fury bar joy? Why can't they just keep those toggles off while they're running around taking out the first mob or two, then turn those toggles on, and then smash the dizzy, helpless mobs that they come across for the next loooong time?

2. I'm having some trouble with your argument that DA's toggle PBAoE is awful. To compare with Stone Armor: Stone Armor has some secondary effects limiting mobility of your opponents, which is good. But DA does more damage than Stone Armor and does it using an uncommonly resisted damage type, and also uses only 2/3 the endurance. Why is SA so obviously superior to DA there?

3. You seem to be deeply dissatisfied with DA's resistances. The one you complain about most is poor Energy resistance. Why shouldn't I view this as being offset by awesome Psi resistance and very strong Negative and Toxic resistance?

4a. You're also unhappy with DA's mez protections. DA has no KB protection. I will grant that this is a common status effect. But are you aware of the existence of KB protection IOs? I'm not sure I see why I'd need to have Acrobatics to circumvent this problem--I think I can do it with one slot. Am I incorrect in my thinking on this?

4b. DA also has no protection from Confuse, Placate, Taunt, or Repel--as you rightly point out. Which other brute sets offer protection from those?

4c. You discount its resistance to Fear as "very uncommon". Is Confuse so much more common than Fear that I should be deeply offended by a lack of protection from one, but unimpressed by protection from the other?

5. I am deeply confused by your comparison of Cloak of Darkness with Combat Jumping. CoD does cost more endurance. But it also has more than twice the defense bonus of Combat Jumping, +Perception, and Stealth--in addition to the Immobilize resistance. Why is it such an obviously inferior power? It seems quite useful to me.

6. You're unhappy with Dark Regen because--to paraphrase--when your pals tell you to go and tank that AV, Dark Regen is NOT up to it. Are you a Tanker? I thought we were talking about Brutes.

7. Are you seriously telling me that you just can't see situations in with a Mag 3 PBAoE Fear plus Acc debuff toggle power might come in handy?

8a. You complain that OG sucks, then you list something that sounds really great--a PBAoE Stun toggle that costs minimal END and a minor amount of HP. Your chief complaint seems to be your bizarre refusal to acknowledge any utility to being able to control how quickly everyone around you can attack you. Can you really not see a situation in which this might come in handy?

8b. You also complain that OG only has melee range. Can you explain to me why you don't think melee range powers would be exactly what a Brute might want to have? Can you list for me the ranged attacks found in other Brute secondaries?

9. Do you think that you could similarly put the hate on any other powerset, if you did a similar degree of downplaying the advantages of the set, spotlighting the disadvantages, and complaining about the set using arguments that can be applied with equal effectiveness to the entire AT? If not, why not?

Yeah, devs. Please, balm the sting of providing us with new content. I'm very unhappy with the whole thing.

I could be placated with a "Skrinky Dink" badge, though.

I see that many people are going to beat me to the Whiny badge.

For those who are complaining that they "haven't got anything" in the last year, how about IOs? Rikti invasions? Dual Blades? C'mon.

And I'm very glad to hear that there are plans in the works for another retail package, because that's good for the long-term survival of the franchise. I'm looking forward to hearing what's in it--but I can see any of several reasons why they might not want to announce any specifics of their plans at this stage. I can wait until they're ready.

Sorry if this has already been done to death, but I came to the party a little late and would like to toss my two inf in, just in case the devs are tracking player sentiment regarding the wedding pack.

First, yeah, I'll buy it. New costumes are good. Emotes are good.

Second, I'm not understanding Posi's comment. I'm sure badge hunters would rather not pay extra for more badges. I'm sure RPers--and to be sure, this is content aimed at RPers--would rather not pay extra for more costumes and emotes.

I'm not getting why one group's unhappiness excluded content from the pack while another's didn't. I enjoy being able to pick badge titles that match character traits--and some weddingy-related badge title has its place. If badge hunters don't want a "Wedding Crasher" badge, they don't have to buy the pack--just like RPers who don't want the ability to throw rose petals as an emote don't have to buy the pack.

Finally, although I will buy the pack, I'm going to add to the chorus saying that the price is too high. The whole game only costs $30, and $10 is more than two weeks of playing time. I'm happy to chalk the price-tag on this one up to "showing the devs a little appreciation", and I would be fine with more "buy it if you want it" type-content that can be integrated into the main game... but I can't see buying more of these without a substantially lower price, or substantially more content.

If I can make a suggestion, you might want to consider a financial model in which we can pay a buck or two per month subscription for a "costumes-of-the-month club" or something like that. Paying members get a little extra shiny--nothing that fundamentally changes the game, but a bit of snazzy for those who like that stuff. Membership revenues bring in a little extra cash. Player costs and dev effort are both spread out over time. I'd do that without hesitation, while this wedding pack is something that I'll do, but not be very happy about.

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Umm... now that the devs have broken silence on the dev silence regarding their silence... where does that leave us?

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DOOOOMed.

The mind boggles, but a few ideas jump out right away.

Too busy posting phony "Hey, when are the devs gonna..." to build buzz.

Just NOT going to get involved in the catgirls vs. wolfboys thing. There are no winners, only casualties.

Too busy getting ready for the next staff meeting's "Agenda Item 3a: funniest petition."

Quick question--Is Virtue United IC or OOC?

Devs, thanks so much for making a poll. I really think it's an easy and good way to get feedback--and limiting the choices keeps things on topic by focusing people on the stuff you're listing. To toss in my two bits, the thing among those listed that I like best is the costume system.

Having said that, I have to agree with Protea that it isn't really clear what question you intended to ask. I'm guessing that the question is:

Among those things listed, what do you think works well as implemented?

That's important. It's good to figure out what works, and makes people happy. But that's gonna get a very different set of answers from:

Among those things listed, what would you most like to see have its implementation improved?

which is clearly how some people are interpreting the poll. And, in fairness, that second question is perhaps a more valuable question to consider if the goal is to figure out what people want in future updates.

The Order of the Horde is now recruiting.

The Horde is a group of demons that were banished from this world several centuries ago. Thanks to a foolish mage from the Circle of Thorns, they now have managed to get a foothold back on this plane through possession of a mortal woman who was offered to them as a sacrifice. They seek wizards, demons, and other servants of the Darkness to help them find a way to open the sealed gate between the planes, and begin a new reign of terror.

The emphasis of the group is dramatic roleplaying, and IC behavior is expected when interacting with other group members. As the group develops there will be player-driven RP tasks and events associated with breaking the seals that hold the Dark Gate closed.

As a rule of thumb, characters should be involved in dark magic in some way--but I'm open to alternatives as long it makes some sense that they'd be trying to assist a demonic invasion.

The group is in its infancy, but it does have a webforum for IC development and OOC commentary. If you're keen to do massive base raids and get into the Top 10 list for prestige, this probably isn't the group for you. But if you want to put on the bad guy hat and do some RPing, then this is a good chance to get in on the start of a long-term, player-driven story arc.

Interested applicants can send a PM to me in the forums, or in-game you can send an email or /tell to Sacrificed.