Techbot Alpha

No. That's my schtick. And Stick.
Get orf moi lawn!

So what your basically saying is...It's fine for Inf to be meta-game when used for enhancements, IOs and marketing...and the suddenly not so for the Notices?

That makes less than no sense whatsoever.

Uphill both ways, in the snow?

And that is a little thing called 'Railroading'.

Why does a magical character need to ask someone else for certain charms if they are self tuaght? Or use a unique hybrid of spells?
Why does a tech character need to scrounge stuff off people when he's, say, a millionaire who can just buy or manufacture the materials?
Why does a ninja need anything when all his 'powers' come from intense training and focus of his inner-chi?

Answer; Enhancements are a totally OOC and Meta-game mechanic. The stuff we use to pay for these things is a totally OOC meta-game monitary system.
And, as Sam points out; the Market.

It's money. You can call it Happy Pixie Stardust and it will still be what it is; In Game Money.

So what IS the representetive of the entire playerbase? Are you suggesting you are somehow better clued in than anyone else?

No, but they get needlessly penalised if they do want to play one. Seeing as its the only AT that has it's entire inherent and Modus Operandi gutted so substantially (Trollers/Doms have it rough vs Destoryers, but only them really) I think its a larger issue than you may think.

Concept. Playstyle. Certain Set combinations. Because they feel it will be fun.
I'm just confused as to what point exactly your trying to make with Scrapper/Stalker here, of which one your....yeah, Im just lost.

Wh-?
You do realise that Placate is a ST effect only? And that as soon as you take ANY damage its effects on the placated enemy are broken and you are unhidden? Sure, Placate will hide you! From one out a ten strong mob, who will then proceed to plaster your sorry corpse across the floor and walls.

Scrappers at least have higher crit chance, generally better defences at that level, and slightly higher HP (IIRC). Brutes have Fury, which even at those level can even the field, higher HP and generally stronger armour too. So, in fact, they'd likely survive...because they don't rely on the stealth Stalkers do that is subsequently negated.


I use Rest as often as I need to, as often as it's recharged. Given the stupidly and arbitrarily long recharge put on it, however, I often find I have to wait around an assinine ammount of time just to get my health and endurance back. And, yes, I will wait until Im back to full. Because in Praetoria I bloody need it.

Strangely enough, I don't find sitting around twiddling my thumbs while I have to wait to heal much fun. YMMV.

I think the best way to tone the damn things down is to increase the gap between them, and make sure they obey the spawn laws set by the mission difficulty.

In the missions that hacked me off last night, I was stuck with endless waves of Clockwork that, literally three seconds after the last one hit the deck, the next wave would spawn. In the mission after that one it was two simultaneous gaint spawns of Synidcate, that were scaled up Initiates that dropped no rewards at all, thus making them a giant big inspiration and debt sink. As soon as they died? Next two waves. Ad Infinitum.

Have an increased timer. Make Ambushes obey spawn laws. That, at the very leasy, would make them less totally obnoxious and more a legitimate 'extra challenge'.

Except thats utter, utter bollocks.

Right, we obviously have to revisit this.
If Influence were treated as that, as influence in the in-game universe, why then does it decrease for things like tailoring? Why, as I put more meta-game slots in my powers, do I somehow become less influential?
Why, also, is it then calle Information in Praetoria? That is NOT Influence. That has nothing to do with influencing anything.

'Influence' was a concept that was introduced by Jack Emmert, and makes as much sense as his crackpot 'vision' ever did. Going on this conversion rate, if I 'bought' a Notice of the Well, my influence would actually go down. So...I work towards becoming a more powerful being and yet, magically, my influence over the world around me actually lessens?

I'm sorry, I don't know what folks are smoking for that to make one lick of sense but, please, keep it away from me.
'Inf' is a meta-game currency, nothing more. I fail to see how it can have any in-game universe or IC effect because it makes no bleeding sense!

Are you saying Reward Merits are magically different?

I have been considering the point, though. I'm perfectly fine with challenge and difficulty to the level you find fun being in the game.

I'm also arguing that leve 1-20 in Praetoria is NOT the place for it, however. Not only is it the forced starting zone for new players, but it's also levels where characters poweres are far below the optimal. Yet there are enough debuffs and exotic damage types to put even high end content to shame.

It's hardly a cop out. You've explicitly stated where you stand. As have I. I don't see any way to convince you otherwise. So I'm going to leave it, before one or both of us starts taking it too far and this devolves from a a discussion and arguement into the likes of a back and forth flame war.

((Oh, and I''ll respond to who I damn well want, scalebelly! ))

Although apparently needing Inf to bribe it with is perfectly fine and reasonable...

Oh yeah, I have Placate that can stop...One Minion, LT or Boss. That does sweet naff-bleeding-all against large ambushes. And oh looky, AS works in Hide...which I effectively dont HAVE because the cheating shites home in and ignore all stealth! What then, exactly, amd I meant to do in this situation? Not enter the mission?

And you bet I'm complaining about Scrappers too. I've run plenty in my time, and never has one been decked with contemptous ease by ONE LT and a minion. Kinetic/SR Scrappers obviously don't bloom until at least SOs and later levels...so WHY am I facing enemies that insist on kicking my already so-so defences repeatedly in the nads, before finishing it off with an unhealthy combination of SS and Kinetics? Seriously, that combination is broken as all hell. Giving what ammounts to a fire blaster kinetics as well equates to broken in my mind. Sure, I love the concepts. But, as of right now, their mechanical implementation is NOT what level 1-20s should be facing. Not by a long shot.



Yes, and why do you think so many people took it? Hmm, maybe because outside of certain builds and heavily IO'd characters most ATs suffered without it. Having to use rest every other mob, despite good slotting, insp use and taking care with attacks suggests a lot more than just 'people whining'. If everyone has it anyway, just maybe theres a reason for that?
Thankfully the Devs listenend and fixed Jacks 'vision', which was a load of steaming turd in the first place...

Then why does the rest of the game manage it perfectly well? I don't mind the baseline 'cheaty' the computer has to employ, I know well enough how that works, and I dont mind.
It's when it strays into genuine 'Computer is a Cheating *******' levels, such as the homing-bloodhound ambushes with no break between them, whole sets worth of attacks at level 18 and exotic damage and swathes of debuffs that I think someone else entirely desinged the mobs.

Skip ambushes...that can and will hunt you across the whole map...and that totally ignore stealth.
So...I can't stealth them...and I can't fight them. Bloody wonderful.

Wait....what? Did you even bother re-reading that before you posted it? Seriously man...

Good for you. Other people obviously have different opinions from you, the Devs included if they included them in the game.
And they clearly do need some help (In Praetoria) if, at low levels, they have to face mobs that totally negate their entire method of defence and attack. That IS letting them go burn and, guess what? Thats BAD design implementation.

Recluse can get in line to kiss my shiny metallic butt-plate. I handed him his head - literally- from the future, I can do it in the present with just as much ease. If he really wants to push it, well...one of us has an actual working Super-Weapon...

Tell that to low level Controllers or Doms. Just def- oh, look, you entier damage mitigation strategy just got its nads handed to it on an anvil and then hammered. These mobs hit hard versus ATs with armour. Now apply that to ones with none.

Oh look, my low level defences get instantly negated by mobs that seem to crap defence debuffs out of every possible orrifice. Oh yay, regen doesn't work because they burn that off too! And my resistance shields are pointless too because they do un-resistable damage types for this level such as energy, fire and psi damage! Deep joy!

Thats a terrible comparison. Stamina was a waste of three power picks JUST to achive what was considered baseline. Sure, certain ATs could sip over it, and IOing could neuter that. But it was still a stupid waste of three powers that was left over from Cryptics 'vision'.

And no, there are NOT ways around homing ambushes that ignore stealth and seem to totally ignore mission settings for mob size and level. Thats not HARD, thats not CHALLENGING, that is the Computer outright CHEATING. And, guess what? For the majority of people, that ain't fun either, which is the whole point of the game.

Ah, the P.O.K.E. I've always hate NPC 'Brawl'. But this is so much worse...

As Sam has said, though, that is ALL Ambushes do. They throw more than the mission settings worth of mobs at you, gutting any stealth or flight tactics you might otherwise have.

I would mind less if they actually obeyed standard spawning rules. But they don't. Fighting Ghouls at +0/x1 the mobs seem quite large as it is in comparison to other mob types. But I can deal with that. When I get ONE ambush that has the same number as two or three of those oversized mobs? That I can't deal with, no matter what powers or slotting I have at that level.

By curbing just how many spawn and how fast, you could still easily replicate the current settings with the difficulty settings.

I'd contest that by saying the sort of gameplay you are after would still be easily in reach, even if changes were made to the mobs. That was the entire purpose of the difficulty settings. While you may currently find the +0/x1 settings as they are a fun challenge, a not insignificant number of people obviously find them so much outside the curve of the norm (Arcana included, which surprised me) as to not be as fun as they should be.

If that were changed, you would still have the option to have the difficulty you crave. Increase the mobsize or mob power as you see fit. The only option for the flipside players is to lower the diff to -1 (and even then I don't know if that would do it in some cases...)

Challenge and 'quick reactions' and all that is fine and dandy in the End Game, an End Game that is even now seeing the light and, IMO, is very good for it. Yes, I got beaten up a lot even on Alpha in the ApexTF, but that is 1)the fault of MMs not fairing too well in comparison to otehrs versus mass AoE and higher mobs and, 2)It's the end game. It's the Praetorian Invasion. I EXPECT it to be hard.

Not true for what is mean to be a new starting zone, one that was touted as being better than the others and also supposed to be the starting zone for trail accounts and new players. New players who will NOT have your or my level of experience, will be getting to grips with basic things like simply moving around, learning why aggro hurts and how to slot things. I'm a frankly quite skilled player who knows very much how to slot powers and which powers to take, and how to manage aggro and deal with most situations. And, despite all of that, through sheer biased numbers Praetoria takes me and smacks the ever loving snot out of me. One Syndicate LT and one minion = facedeath for my Kin/SR scrapper at level 18 unless I make liberal use of insps. I think the first time kinetics in NPCs shows up red of Blueside is Tsoo, in the mid 20s or 30s? NOT ay level 16-20.

I'm not adverse to challenge. I'm adverse to it where it doesnt belong, however. And Praetoria has more than it's fair share, that detracts from enjoying the story and, for new players, getting to grips with the game.

Feedback != 'I found this easy, L2P' or 'I like this challenge, so everyone else should suck it'

Yes, those are slightly extreme examples of some of the responses, but that's been the underlying curreny I've got for quite some time now.

I don't mind challenge. I like new mechanics. I Loved the BM fight, despite the cheating hussy making me run around with my pets in fast tow more than actually shooting (and totally negating Traps)
I DO mind when that same level of challenge is smacked into an otherwise fun 1-20 experience. These are not the levels to have enemies with that many aces up their sleeves.

And then they throw another wave at you. And this time you've burned all your insps, and the ambushes don't drop any. And then another wave. And then ANOTHER.

And yes, the TPN mission was an absolute shite, simply because the 'Weakened' Destroyers seemed to toally ignore my Scrappers defences and smacks me about with the P.O.K.E. (Punch of Kill Everything) that nearly all NPCs have instead of Brawl. I ended up having to kite the little buggers using the Kinetics ranged cone...on a Scrapper!

I love the mechanics. Hate the numbers mobs use. Because they simply cheat.