Another_Fan

[ QUOTE ]
Most of this patch I am in complete agreement with...


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd agree except about the timing. This had the potential to get lots of people that weren't interested more involved in the invention system and the markets in a positive way. The flood of goods hitting the market made it possible for just about anyone to get what had been premium items at very reasonable prices. Now in addition to having seen the ugly side of the anti farm crowd obsessive RP crowd again, we will likely have to go back to the complaints everything is too expensive on the market and nothing is available.

[ QUOTE ]

I wonder what would happen if the devs made it so custom enemy groups required a minimum of 1 minion, 1 lieut, and 1 boss. I'm sure there would still be farming, but it might die down somewhat.



[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
It would drive a stake right through the heart of farming missions, that's for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bosses are for many the preferred farm targets.

[ QUOTE ]
I have a great SG and playgroup, with our own global. I'm lucky that way. Should those who don't be abandoned to the mercy of spam?

"Don't bother to clean up the environment; we'll all just form our own gated communities and pour our raw sewage over the walls. Problem solved!"

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes we must do this for the childrens sake. If we don't get rid of the farmers the very cute harp seal is going to get clubbed. If we don't do this DDT will make a comeback and children won't die of malaria, Nuclear powerplants will be built and people wont die of air pollution, Hydro plants will be built and people will have cheap clean power,Genetically modified food will feed the starving.

Appeal to sympathy a very very nasty logical fallacy that far too many use and far to many more fall for.

[ QUOTE ]
just really good xp/rewards with possibly a lame story. I wonder how many people would "report" such an ebil mission.

Hopefully, not many.

[/ QUOTE ]

Made such a mission. Battle Maiden map, lots of objects to destroy, lots of things to click, bunches of hostages to rescue. Gave about a 1000 tickets a run solo invincible. (this is before that became a small amount (Day 1 of go live))

Of course I had someone report it as a farm based on the I know it when I see it criteria. Heck if you are getting tickets and there is that much killing without much story it must be a farm.

Changed the story around, changed the shape of the critters, its now 4 stars and has been since day 2.

Moral of the story, I know it when I see it is Bull Puckey. More importantly, if someone is telling you this needs to be done, for your own, societies, the games whatever good 9 times out of 10 they are nothing but a griefer having fun at your expense.

[ QUOTE ]
To be fair, it works the same way the other way round when farmers or content addicts scream about how thing X is unbalanced or how unfair power z is, or how unfair nerf xyz was

[/ QUOTE ]

Really ? I have seen content addicts scream, I have seen market addicts scream, both usually correctly and with outstanding arguments about how x will affect the game based on broader reasons than just their own little niche.

With RPers it usually boils down to a few things.

1. It violates RP (An argument that can be used in any manner any way any time)

2. Its destroying RP in the game, which reduces down to given an opportunity to play the game in a different fashion people chose it. This thread is a prime example, of RP outrage over most not choosing to worship at this alter.

3. Its against cannon. This one is usually brought up against a COX merger, or even market consolidation.

Well when you make weak arguments against how others like to play the game and when their actions do nothing to prevent you from playing it however you like, what do you expect the reaction to be ?

[ QUOTE ]
Jehovah's witnesses arent too bad if you answer the door wearing a loincloth, a goathead mask, and carrying a kriss blade. You look at the and say "the sacrafices are here!". they dont hang around much after that.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have food in your fridge nothing gets rid of Roleplayers.*

*There is a rumor that downgrading to basic cable might

[ QUOTE ]
i just wonder why people seem to always treat roleplayers like theyre a disease that needs to be erased from roleplaying games

I have nothing against you if you don't want to rp, I just dislike when roleplayers get treated like some sort of virus for having the gall to exist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me see we have umpteen threads where RPers are complaining about X on a RP basis, Y is Killing the RP game, minor point Z is against cannon, W has to be nerfed for rp reason V, etc etc, and you wonder why there is negative reaction ??

[ QUOTE ]
I really dont get the reference. the only Witnesses I can find any references to is a french film about people with aids. And if you're honestly comparing roleplayers to that in an rpg, you're an idiot. :P

[/ QUOTE ]

You must lead a very sheltered life if you haven't had someone try to give you copy of the watchtower in the early hours of the morning.

[ QUOTE ]
It's not constructive discussion, regardless of how you feel about the issue, to have so many devolved threads when we could have one quality one.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are more optimistic than I.

At this point, where you have one side saying anything should be possible, and the other saying that no one should be even allowed to know what is permissable there is a mighty wide gap to close. Toss in the usual cast of ulterior motives and unrevealed goals, well I just don't see the two sides settling down to discuss this over tea.

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but since MA came out, the RP'ers seem to think that they should take over every server...

"The One"


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Pft. we already exist on every server. we're like the Witnesses like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Godwin's law.

Can we get this thread closed now? It's run its course, regardless of what side of the discussion you fall on. Post in one of the more civilized threads from now on.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes because calling for the suppression of ideas that are disliked is so forward thinking. I would say civilized but its one civilization's tragedies that it is.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. because its not like there arent 40 other topics about this exact same argument all of them going in circles.

[/ QUOTE ]

That in itself should tell you something. Shutting down a topic that has generated such interest does no one any good. It reflects very poorly on anyone that would call for it. All such action would accomplish is hardening the positions of both sides and intensifying any anger over whatever the eventual resolution will be.

[ QUOTE ]
Godwin's law.

Can we get this thread closed now? It's run its course, regardless of what side of the discussion you fall on. Post in one of the more civilized threads from now on.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yes because calling for the suppression of ideas that are disliked is so forward thinking. I would say civilized but its one civilization's tragedies that it is.

It would be real nice to get actual patch notes again.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Isn't there an unofficial RP server? Perhaps that one can be for those types and Freedom for people who just play the game as a fun game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, But the RP'ers seem to think that they should take over every server...

"The One"

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT with Amplification

[ QUOTE ]
The only exploit I currently see in the missions are the no basic ranged attack for most sets. I think all mobs should have a basic pistol attack or soemthing just to keep you from being able to hover above without being in danger.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL there is nothing quite so funny as watching a purpled out 50 scrapper who thinks he can take on anything wander into a spawn of no ranged attack Claws/Empaths, Katana/empaths, etc.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Okay, so anti-farmers characterize farmers as ruining the game, farmers characterize anti-farmers as trying to control others or control how other people play the game, apathetic people characterize anti-farmers as trying to police or control the farmers and tell them not to do that by treating them as stupid, lazy or self-absorbed.

So, anti-farmers want farmers to stop farming, farmers want anti-farmers to stop complaining about farming and apathetic people want anti-farmers to stop complaining about farming.

So, come on, happy apathetic people, do a little dance, get your boogie on! You've thrown your hat in with the people that threaten everything good about MA.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually some of us that are apathetic to their plight are trying to convince them that there are other servers where this isn't an issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

The antifarmers on freedom are like people who live in NYC but hate crowds and traffic. Much like the antifarmers , their Solutions usually involve a great deal of misery for people that don't share their narrow views of what the ideal lifestyle is.

QR:

The self righteousness of this thread goes over the top even for these boards.

The solution if you have "City of Farming Angst" is to realize the problem lies with you and get over it.

[ QUOTE ]
Whether a mission is outside the realm of "reasonable levels of rewards is a judgement call. And while there are a lot of people around here who believe that the job of a good game developer is to be a robotic decision emitter, all actual game designers would disagree. And I use the word "all" specifically, because I believe a game designer that actually stated that a reward system could be managed without the exercise of judgement would be lying. That would fall under the category of "I'd like to see them try it."


[/ QUOTE ]

We actually have such a sytem for tfs already where its 1 merit / 3.5 minutes

Sounds like a bug

Petition it who knows maybe it will get fixed.

very much better

Runs that were awarding 1600 solo are now awarding 2000 duo.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
They are fixed. What they have now seems to be in line with the drop rate for teams running regular content.

[/ QUOTE ]

No it's not.

On a normal team, you get (on average) 1/N the total drop reward, where N is the team size.

In the MA, you get 1/(N^2), because each ticket reward is round-robin among the players and it's reduced by the number of people on the team.

In normal content, two players get 1/2 the drops they would solo. In the MA, two players get 1/4 the tickets they would solo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are there numbers to back up that is what is actually happening ?

Solo Farming I will clear out my salvage and most of the recipers in my personal inventory before I start. Team farming 6 or more won't even bother if I get a recipe and a little salvage a run I think I have done well.

Equating that back to tickets

Salvage = approximately 8 + (80/(ratio uncommon/common)+540/(ratio rare/common)

recipes= 60 tickets or so for pool A.


It certainly seems to be in line. I am waiting a little bit before I make the effort to do another set of controlled tests on maps.

They are fixed. What they have now seems to be in line with the drop rate for teams running regular content. The drop rate for teams is lower but the xp is larger take your pick of what you want. It is much mor obvious that this is happening in the architect missions because the end mission bonus gives a numerical summary just how badly teaming [censored] your drop rate.

[ QUOTE ]
The only "farms" I have seen taken out are those that used exploits. Things like the RWZ mobs that were dropping higher than normal rewards. The FFG's from skyraiders that would have 5 or 6 going at once to make them all but untouchable. Anything else is just using tools already available and have been left alone to my knowledge. I still have yet to see a redname post anything outlawing farming, only in the use of exploits to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen the outdoor city map filled with regular spawn and a lot of destructible objects taken down put back up and taken down again. I know that it was taken down because there was a complaint it was a farm.

It happens. My great joy in this is that whiny antifarm people have to play the things because there are sooo sooo many of them. Its also distracted them from their ongoing griefing of clicking glowies in existing farms

Bottom Line

1. The custom monsters have about 6-7% more hitpoints than the regulars

2. They have increased perception


3. You can create spawns that are better than player superteams. How bout a spawn of fire blasters with empathy as a secondary anyone ? Or how bout stalkers with sonic blast ?

[ QUOTE ]
They can turn a blind eye to a degree of it while addressing extreme examples, much as they have tended to do in PvE up until now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess part of the irksomeness of this whole issue to me is that devs have built more extreme farms than 95% of what you see in MA.

The heavy MA farms solve the problem of map padding which is something that should just be fixed in the game. Have a slider to select spawn for team size and the whole farming issue goes away.