Aett_Thorn

"Level debuffing?" What is that? The level system has been in place since the game came out, and I've never thought of it as a debuff.

The AE system removed the need for sidekicks and exemplaring, to be sure, but there are definitely problems with that if it was brought into the real game, and those probelsm are there in the AE system, too.

THe leveling speed increase alone should show you why this might not be a great idea, but it would also create a system where you could street hunt in Atlas Park for your character's entire career, with no need to ever leave or do a mission.

That doesn't even take into account the fact that mobs like Hellions don't scale well as you increase their level. Even at level 10, they're pretty much a joke to fight. At level 50, if they were giving me the same rewards as Malta, why would anyone fight Malta?

Rocket boots, IIRC, will only fire when a flight power is activated. So Hover, Flight, and the Peacebringer equivalents are the only ones that will trigger it (plus group flight, either as the initiator or as a recipient).

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While I can see it being useful for the pre-20 levels, it would completely overpowered for levels 22 and above. Got that power that takes 20 endurance? Congratulations. With one SO it now takes 6 endurance. That situational toggle that takes 1.5 end/sec? Now it takes 0.4 end/sec with one SO and you can keep it on all the time.

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I like your math. Unfortunately, it's wrong. ;-)


Remember that Endurance Reduction uses the formula:

New Endurance Cost = Base Endurance Cost/(1+Enhancement)



As such, a 100% EndRed slotting would lower a 20 Endurace power to 10, not to 0.

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Relax kiddo, go to another board topic or go play the game. Enough proof is given toward my opinion by hundreds of players in said Q&A.

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What opinion are you trying to argue for now? The Warrior DPS, or the downtime reductions that the Devs were talking about (you know, the point of this thread)?

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Ah circular logic, simple and easy to use when evading the point at hand.

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THe point that you were arguing was that the Taunt debate has gone on since beta, and will likely continue. The proof of which has been purged since the forums get regularly pruned of old threads. So, you can sit there an know that we can't really get you 'proof,' but anybody who has been here since Beta knows what happened.

Seriously? Sorciere did provide proof. Don't like it or the source? Get some proof against it, or find your own proof. In short: put up or shut up.


I don't even agree with their main topic, but you've got me seriously considering jumping to their side just to argue against you.

No, but when we know that you're never going to offer any in return...

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Also to take Taunt or not to take Taunt has been a revolving issue since beta and doesn't seem to be going away any time soon.

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Opinion. Until I see proof of otherwise.

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Fact. Somebody has there panties in a bunch today

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Did Lacry really just not believe that Taunt vs. no Taunt has been a revolving issue since beta? Did they ask for proof of that? Have they not been here?

Heck, there was a guide written by me in I8 about it, because the debates were pointless and pretty mcuh happening all the time.

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Remember when it was Taunt vs Provoke arguments. Taunt was auto hit but single target. Provoke was AoE but with To-Hit.

I prefer the Taunt or No-Taunt arguments myself

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Still, those were Taunt vs. other-than-Taunt (meaning no Taunt) arguments. Also, those were pretty much before Gauntlet was introduced, too.

I'm not the best at these, but I believe that it would be something like this:

/macro chicken "powexecname Taunt$$emote 'chicken'"

The 'chicken' (including the quotes) would come out, and be replaced with the actual emote name, since I can't remember it, sorry.

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Also to take Taunt or not to take Taunt has been a revolving issue since beta and doesn't seem to be going away any time soon.

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Opinion. Until I see proof of otherwise.

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Fact. Somebody has there panties in a bunch today

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Did Lacry really just not believe that Taunt vs. no Taunt has been a revolving issue since beta? Did they ask for proof of that? Have they not been here?

Heck, there was a guide written by me in I8 about it, because the debates were pointless and pretty mcuh happening all the time.

Kruunch, I'm pretty sure that the aggro auras that are auto-hit (such as Invinc and CE) only have to make ToHit checks against AVs and GM-class critters (and maybe EBs, but I'd need to check on that). But against most enemies, those auras are automatic aggro.

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Actually the videos proved that some aura's are weak and you can lose aggro if say, someone is blasting or scrapping their hearts out.Which was my original point. Maybe you didn't see that part in your wanting to be right.

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Actually, they showed that the aggro aura held the aggro. The only minion that was attracted to the Blaster was one that was outside of the aggro aura's radius. It pretty much proved that as long as the enemy is being affected by the aggro aura, the Blaster wasn't go to peel the aggro off of it.

First off, I am not saying that the average customer must go screw. I certainly did not want to give off that vibe, nor was it my attention. My apologies if that was the case.


Most of my characters do have Stamina, in order to keep up or because they are endurance pigs. There are a couple that don't, or that probably don't need it since they have other tools at their disposal. I am not saying that Stamina isn't a great power, nor that it doesn't make the game a lot faster.

But I guess here is my point: if Stamina (the power) was removed from the game (or better yet, had never been put in), would people adjust to the new restrictions? I'm betting that they would. Stamina merely allows you to limit a certain restriction, sometimes to the point where it is no longer the primary restriction on your character's speed. At any point where that was put into the game, I would expect players to go for it.

People tend to take Stamina now. I am not going to argue that point (I am on your side with saying that I would bet a majority of players take it). With it in the game, Endurance becomes much less of a concern, to the point where people would tend to rate recharge or damage as their next slowing point for going at the speed they want. If a power was put into the game that was liek Hasten, but was passive, I'm betting that people would have the same complaints about that as they do about Stamina now - namely, that the game really doesn't get going until they get that power. And if that was in, and another passive power was put in that raised your damage by 100%, I'm betting that people would say that the game really doesn't get moving until you have that too.

People will always complain about what is limiting them the most. But there will ALWAYS be something limiting them the most. And they will always complain about that the most, and also try to mitigate it the most. It's pretty much human nature. I'm certainly not arguing with your right to complain about Endurance or the need for Stamina. I just feel that if Endurance was fixde to your satisfaction, that people would just complain about something else limiting them instead, and we'd be back here again, talking about that. It would really never end, because as soon as the Devs addressed one 'issue', there would be another that people were asking to be removed.

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Sour grapes because I used someones video as proof for my point?. Yeah it happens. Especially when your proven wrong....

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Except, the video proved YOU wrong. There was two of them to do so, and you gave no evidence of your own to back up your point. So you can continue to believe what you will, but I'm really not the one that has a problem with proof.

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And yet you missed my point.... We as tanks, aren't even close to "theoretically" liquefying most foes". The power to even have the option isn't even grasped in the game. The parallels are NOT vivid , in this case.

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Okay, so then we can't use any comics to back up concepts then? You know, since the parallels aren't "vivid." You know that word means flamboyant, dramatic, or colorful, right, and makes no sense there?

Comic concepts are perfectly valid points of comparison, but they need to be tempered with game balance. Superman is a great character to try to emulate in a superhero game. But you've got to realize that having a character that is the toughest, the most damaging, with range, and with speed that few can match, all in one, is not going to be allowed.

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Usually happens with my Tank when I'm running a TF, either a Blaster or a scrapper just can't keep up. But then again its Aett, using proof isn't exactly his "thing".

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Really? This coming from the poster who where in another thread, when somebody posted a video backing up my side of the argument, you provided no proof of your own? Yeah, sure, we'll go with me not using proof.

Let alone that it was more a tongue-in-cheek comment to Coldmed than anything, since with as much money as he pumps into his builds, I really would be that the vast majority of players (the normal people who play the game) wouldn't be able to keep up.

If I had as much influence as Coldmed has access to, I'd probably have the same problem. But neither would I kick people for using inspirations to help mitigate that.

Next time, please take the whole quote:

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Superman can theoretically liquefy most foes with a single finger swipe, but he still holds back and just hits them hard enough to not break anything, sometimes he does it so softly he needs to do it again.

Technically, tankers work just like that right now. Only thing is, when Superman decides he is really going to let it all out against one foe, he really goes out at it. He will pick his target, usually a very tough foe, and just go wild, mostly because the foe can take it, off course.


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Starsman quite acurately already addressed what Superman can do in fights against tough foes. He was talking about, in the first line, about Supers going up against the normal street thug and the like. Against a tough foe, Starsman litterally says that Supers allows himself to go wild on them.

Kruunch,

While I want to respond to several points in this thread, I only have time to respond to a couple of things. Hopefully, later tonight, I can have the time to craft a larger response to this, but I'm not sure if I will. As such, I will only touch on a few things here.

The first one is sampling bias. You are looking at the forums as your base for suggesting this (and your own experiences, of course). However, the forums are a bad source of data for a couple of reasons:

1) As mentioned before, this is a small minority of the larger player population.

2) People post to complain more often than they will to acknowledge something as being fine.

What 2) means is that of course you're going to have people coming here and complaining about endurance, because here is the place where they can get help for it. Do you really think that people are going to post a build here, and then say, "everything's fine, just thought you should know!"? I know of nobody in the game who, when discovering that endurance isn't an issue for them, needs to run off to tell the forums about it. But the people who are having a problem with it will definitely come here, to see if there is a solution they haven't thought of.

It's like a police station. How many times do you think they have people coming in every day just to say that they have no crimes to report? If you were standing around the police station, and took what people said as your sampling data, then you would come to the conclusion that everyone has reported a crime, so that everyone in the outside world must be having the same trouble.



My second point is this: people will generally take the path of least resistance in a game. That is why Stamina is so popular. Even if they slot well enough that Endurance isn't a concern anymore, most still keep Stamina. Why is that? Why is it that Regen and Willpower players still tend to take Stamina, despite having a power in their primary/secondary that is BETTER than it? Is it because they really need it, or is it because it allows them to push the envelope even more?

You can get by through the entire game without taking Stamina. As your character progresses, you can slot more for endurance reduction in both attacks and defenses. You can use IOs that give you next endurance reduction greater than the recovery effect of Stamina. This, in addition to the fact that the game is designed to make you feel more "super" at the end as opposed to the beginning, is a change from other MMOs. Do the others still work? Sure. But this one was trying to show that there isn't just one way to make it work. The game was set up so that you feel more powerful at the end of the game, instead of getting more powers, only to feel exactly the same, because the enemies grew just the same (or more) in power level.


Frustration might not be the best teacher, but it is a teacher. You try to learn to avoid that frustration. In regards to Endurance, it means that you learn to manage to avoid capping it out, however it is you do that. That can mean learning to manage your toggles, or learn to choose your attacks (that minion with a sliver of health might just not need a full KoB to the face when Jab would do). It DOES make you a better player to have to deal with that in the early game.


My third point is this: the customer is not always right. If I went into a Best Buy, after purchasing a few DVDs, and demanded that I was short changed because I didn't get a DVD player with them, would I be right to demand one? Why not? If I'm always right, you should give me a DVD player. Or, is the customer always right, up to a point? That is what people tend to forget about that saying. There is a point where you just can't or won't help them, because it's not in the company's best interest.

To compound that, sometimes, people do not act in their own best interest. If you were to poll the players, and asked them if they wanted to just start all of their characters at level 50 with 2 billion influence to play with, I'm willing to bet that a majority of them would say yes. However, people would probably get very bored with that quickly, and leave the game faster than they would had that not gone into the game. But hey, they wanted it, right? So why not give it to them?

Sometimes, a company must avoid giving the customer exactly what they are asking for, because it's not really in their long-term interest to do so. For Paragon Studios, it means that they are trying to keep the customer as long as they can, since that is how they get their money. Do you really think that if they made this game so mind-numbingly easy that you just had to sit there and do nothing to really pay attention to what you're doing, that people would stay longer than if the game was kept as is?

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i have people that wont play with me on my server cause they literally cant keep up.

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I highly doubt that's the real reason.

Soon™

Have they fixed the bug in that last mission dealing with the engineers? If they haven't, then I really don't recommend running this TF.

You should have at least one Defender or Controller helping you out as support. That would really help to start out with, even if the Def/Cont just put up their debuffs on Recluse and then went to help with the towers.


I've never seen Recluse just start his summons without being damaged first, but I would have definitely tried to kill those guys as soon as he summoned them.

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God, don't say Troy Hickman again! It's dangerous!!!

why is everyone looking at me that way....?

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Actually, I believe that it's the fourth time saying it that cancels it out.

Of course, the fifth time is the absolute worst, since it brings back the original three, and then adds one.

Oh...Oh no...where did my pants go?!?! Am I becoming Troy Hickman?! Gah!

It's an old description, from back before I0 that described the enhancements. Neither will sell you Invention Enhancements as you know them now. I believe the very old 'invention' enhancements are the dual origin technology enhancements.

First off, wlecome back to the forums! I'm glad that you felt comfortable coming back with more questions.

Now, to answer your specific remarks:

1) The missions in this game are faily linear, with you getting one mission from a contact, doing that, and then getting another one from him or being passed up the line.

However, you can have up to three missions in your queue if you want. Take different contacts, and they will send you to different places to fight different kinds of foes.

2) The Perez Park mission was one of the original missions from way back in Issue 0. Perez is a Hazard Zone, and was meant to be done with teams. Way back in the day, it was a popular zone, so getting that mission wasn't a problem. Nowadays, it is, since the CoT are hard to take out for newer players, and there's few people in that zone to help.

My suggestion on this is to go back to your contact that gave you that mission, and use the option to drop it. It's a pain in the butt mission, and should be dropped, if you ask me.

3) For fun story lines in the lower levels, head to the Hollows, and talk to Mr. Wincott there, who should be standing near the entrance. He'll start you down a path to exploring the area and the foes there. always good to run through that zone's arc at least once.

4) You will get faster travel powers when you reach level 14. Hover is pretty slow without any enhancements in it, but Flight is pretty respectable. You'll get there in no time, so have no fear.

Your characters will be fine. All of those are stored server-side.

The only things that you will lose are any costumes you have saved, screenshots you have taken, or bind files that you have made for yourself.