Ammon

[ QUOTE ]
I also feel like I'm not able to influence it (so I don't feel it's freeform... To me there seems to be a desired path.). Yes, I wrote the tabloid article here on the forums, but it doesn't appear to be that one that's caused any trouble, in fact it hasn't generated any response (of course the article is written with the implication that denial shows truth, after all why would they deny the document says what the paper said it did unless it really does...) and as has been pointed out by Quilla, where is the response to the production of a full pile of the signatures of every registered hero in Paragon? If the response is "oh well they were shredded immediately because we couldn't use them", I'd ask - Where was the moral indesicion? If passion wrote the petition, why should common sense and logic rule its collection?

[/ QUOTE ]
Those are good questions to answer. I'll try to give equally good answers.

First of all the freeform issue.

I believe quite a bit of Brit and White's storylines have been in direct response to newspaper articles, of which yours was the first.

Unfortunately, because you didn't PM me either through the boards or in-game, your story missed a lot of details that you might otherwise have been able to include that a reporter probably would have dug up, so we followed up your lead with a more salacious version.

My own IC storyline post about the first reporter to get to the Inquirer with the background dirt on the author was in direct response to your article, and used the same paper. It was needed also because your article didn't have a reporter's name, and some other characters were outraged enough by the press smear to want to 'sort out' the reporter.

Additionally, just like in the real world, sometimes later investigations overshadow the first reports. That the petition exists is far less of a gossip-monger story than the fact its been started by a 'fraud', who is an ex-celeb, is having an affair with another celeb who's had bad press of his own, etc, etc.

You started the ball rolling, and I have seen a great deal of response to that initial momentum from a number of different players, ending in the deletion of a PC hero detective convicted of murder.

On the second issue, are you asking IC or OOC what happened to the signatures? I'm assuming OOC since this thread is for OOC questions, but I wanted to be sure.

The OOC response has to be, well, what did you do with them? Your unnamed 'young hero' had them. Where did he deliver them? Did he delete them? What did he say about them and where they came form, and most importantly, to whom?

You see, Suzi merely printed out a few dozen copies of a petition form and handed some to friends. As yet, not one person has RP'd delivering such a list anywhere, and Suzi did not provide any instructions as to what to do with them that I can see in the letter.

As far as I know, a load of young male heroes, none of whom know Suzi directly, are going around idealistically with copies of a petition that noone knows what to do with. So far, noone asked that question, nor RP'd giving out the form with any instructions, or even asked where to return the form with its signatures. The only form that was even halfway delivered to where White might have found it and got it back was Dr Mechanibus I believe, who left it on the bar at Pocket D.

Hehe yeah, I can agree with that alright.

[ QUOTE ]
Um anything coming over from CoV has been broken out of the Zig by Arachnos...

[/ QUOTE ]
Except Arachnos, and anyone who wants to Roleplay that they were one of the people sent in to do the breakout, rather than one of the convicts? I know the game machinery is such that all villains are supposed to be Zig escapees, but this is roleplay.

Do we also now say that any power not available as an in-game powerset one is non-existant because the machinery doesn't support it? I hope not, because there are a lot of creative characters with powers beyond the game machinery limitations.

[ QUOTE ]
I'd like to know if the originators of this plot realise that known villains have put their name to the petition (or have claimed to do so in conversations in Pocket D) as a gesture of "support" for their friend, White Vampyr.

Do they realise what an absolute disaster this would actually be? The public reaction alone would be crazy, and I don't mean within the "hero community", I mean with the general public and the municipal authorities. Heroes that have signed would have their status called into question even by the most supportive, and the taint of collusion with Recluse would seep through into public perception.

((From Kelvinbridge's post))

[/ QUOTE ]
As the originator of the idea of a 'heroes for people' petition storyline, yes I am aware that players have supported this with Villain characters as well as heroes.

A PR nightmare? Not always. You may be aware of a 'criminal' put away for over two decades who's support for the Anti-apartheid movement was critical, and whom is held in very high regard. Perhaps the name Nelson Mandella rings a bell?

I don't know of many legal systems that deny a person their rights to representation for having a criminal record. If there are any, they may well be in breach of the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Now there are situations where some of these rights may be curtailed because the person represents themselves a great threat to the human rights of others. But fair and honest treatment by the law, and respect due to all human beings is pretty central to the declaration.

You still have to treat prisoners with all the basic human rights even while they are serving their sentance. The right to seek Political Asylum is also given, which may explain why Heroes are not allowed to just go and attack the Rogue Isles.

So far as I am aware, even though Jeffrey Archer went to jail, he's not only eligable to vote, but could even hold some political office again.

Admittedly, escaped prisoners are another matter. However, do you know for a fact that none of the villains signing were not just visiting, or even only on remand?

Even were that not so, a petition as a whole is not dimished by the addition of uncountable signatures. Otherwise any petition or bill could be balked by just one person signing as Daffy Duck.

Personal journal of White Vampyr

I knew Bastinado would be angry about me getting myself in the press. I actually got off a lot more lightly than I'd expected, in that he merely demoted me on a trial basis, kind of a suspension. With him, I'd half expected he'd hit me. I wonder if he didn't because I'm a woman, or because I'm one of his team?

At least I'm getting used to masquerading around in this ridiculous new costume. I guess one of the advantages of being a 'super-hero' is that people actually expect you to wear a mask and be disguised. However, spandex is never going to be to my tastes - give me leather, silk and lace any day.

The team is definitely dwindling. Only four of us showed up for such an important mission tonight, despite Bastinado's extensive pre-briefings on how important this mission would be. I hope the missing ones are okay, and not victims of the powers 'imploding' as they apparently have in some cases.

No Psyte tonight. Has he decided he'd be better off alone after all? I thought we'd reached him last time - broken through that distance he tries to keep. If he stays away though, he'll fall back into that brooding - I know, I've been there. Dammit Psyte, help us to help you!

Solar was really the hot-head that Burnie calls him tonight. He kept charging off alone, and got badly hurt a number of times, with only Burnie's growing healing abilities saving him after he got beaten almost lifeless half a dozen times.

I think Bastinado is going to need to rein him in a bit, because as it was, he was off elsewhere, getting into some other fight, on several of the occassions we could have used his strength and power. Still, that's Bast's call. I just follow the objectives and support the team.

My new-found power to manipulate speed has been very useful. I'd sensed even when I first learned to kind of drain speed from foes that there was a way to manipulate those energies for others. Having found the way (though I sure as heck don't understand the science of it all) it proved a big factor in allowing our diminished numbers to act faster and more powerfully than ever.

We really are a force to be reckoned with. I just hope we can keep from being corrupted by these powers. I can see how some people would get to feel they are above the ordinary people, instead of seeing themselves as being especially equipped to serve the community. I will have to keep watching Bastinado, just to be sure he uses our powers well, and for good ends.

I finally had to see Brit tonight. I just couldn't bear not knowing how he was. Got myself an unnotable room in an unnotable hotel, and paid extra for a room with direct access to the fire escape. It means Brit can sneak in to see me, just as easily as I can go in and out unnoticed.

I have to start investigating Hyperion Star. We know almost nothing about this guy, or what nature of man he was, other than that he wore a hero costume, and seems to have brought disaster with him to the hospital that fateful day.

Bastinado seems to honour the guy, but I never even saw him. I need to know exactly what he stood for. I won't feel right about carrying his name about like some banner until I know the banner is for a good cause.

I'm no scientist like Johnny, nor a tactician like Bastinado. I'm not even a successful business leader like James. Lord knows I made a mess of trying to lead anything at all with the disaster I made of Heroes for People. But I'm a girl who has to follow her heart above all else. I need to know in my heart who Hyperion Star was.

In the meantime, I have to be careful. If Bastinado discovers I've given away my medpatch, he'll probably be furious. But I just can't wear it. Not when other people, taking the same risks but without the advantage of powers don't have the same protection. I choose the risks I'm taking. What of those who don't get to choose?

One could argue that the devs have already accepted the petition, in that I haven't seen a new hero statue appear in some time. The Sculpture in Faultline, byt the first contact, actually is dedicated to all who were killed, hero or otherwise, probably even including some local gang members.

[ QUOTE ]
she had no secret intentions to cause disruption (though it is admitted by Ammon that he himself did, the player is not the one in question here, the characters motives are. He even states that the opening was delibrately worded poorly to spark such reactions).

but as we both agree on, what was going on subconscious is pretty much unknown

[/ QUOTE ]
It is not so much that my motives as a player were to cause disruption, as in I did not seek an artifice that would cause dissent not inherrent in characters themselves.

Paragon City is a place where a vastly diverse range of people carry the (very lose) definition of super-hero. We have clean-cut patriots, we have idealists, we have anti-heroes, and we have some so dark that the villains fear them worse than other villains.

But while we are all pounding on villains, there's not much motivation for this to create IC tensions between radically different moralities. The only thing we may argue about is just how hard to pummel a villain. It is heroism purely through the aspect of opposition to active villainy.

But introduce a moral fight to do good, to be selfless, and the differences between the heroes and anti-heroes have something to hang from and be expressed in regard to. Add in a bit of ambiguity to the mix, allowing even more diversity of heroic approach, and we (hopefully) have a vessel that allows any who want to be involved to show just how their characters approach to 'heroism' may vary from others.

This was not a 'mass experiment' in that nobody was lead into anything, nor asked to do anything at all. All I did was post a petition that could be circulating Paragon. To be honest, the amount of players who've chosen to become involved has far surpassed anything I expected many times over.

The involvement of so many is greatly appreciated, and I'm really glad I began something that a lot of people, including many of the less experienced CoX roleplayers, have found useful as an opportunity to get involved in a shared storyline.

There is no fixed destination for this storyline. I'm trying not to steer anything at all, (although I would like to see just a little less attention put on writing quality, and more on creative roleplay ideas, as not all players may have English as a first language, or be skilled writers. It would be a great shame if players felt they had to come up to a certain standard of writing or be excluded, if they are able to get their ideas and creativity across).

There's no 'manipulation' of players intended at all. I manipulated the original thread-starting post to simply take advantage of what I felt was an under-utilised aspect of the radical differences between the array of characters classed generically as 'hero' or even as 'villain'.

That is the level and extent of the 'manipulation' or 'division-stirring' that I was referring to.

As a player, what has been most interesting to me is that the vast majority of our heroes seen throughout the 'story' so far are reactive, and not at all investigative.

So far, very few characters have sought to determine Suzi's motives by talking to those who know her well (or at least better), even though many have made judgements on them. We don't seem to favour the 'Batman' type of brilliant detectivework in our heroes it seems so far. Most of us have portrayed heroes that go with their gut instincts, even on very little evidence.

I'd love to have an OOC chat another time, perhaps after this is over, to see if that is because the game machinery allows very little scope for independant investigations (the story lines are fed to us anyway, and there's no means of any real free-form investigation having impact), or is simply a matter of vast majority of taste in heroes we like to play? That can wait though, for another time and discussion.

Shadowghost, it sounds like the issues you have are personal rather than plot related, and are thus probably best dealt with in private if you wish to pursue the questions.

But if it bears any relevance to interpretation of any IC posts, yes, English is my first language, and has been for over 40 years.

[ QUOTE ]
However, what good any of that would do is pretty open to question. It might establish the motives for writing the petition, but the motives would only count for setting up someone to blame. What's interesting is the various viewpoints of the people explaining why they are or are not going to sign the thing. which, I think, is your original concept for the plot.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, exactly so.

[ QUOTE ]
Originally posted by Bridger

Ammon, Raven may not have put a great deal of creative energy into the RP side of things, but that doesn't necessarily make his concerns about the wording of the original post any less valid. The use of language is extremely important in nearly all roleplaying, and in text-based RP like this, it becomes critical.

I think perhaps the concerns expressed might be clarified by rephrasing the sentence in question to remove the colon, like this:

"For too long, the city has idolized its super-powered citizens and ignored the real heroes in the city, those being the regular people who fight without the benefit of any super-powers, relying solely on human spirit and heart, to make the city work."

Does that make the concerns (and their validity) any clearer?

[/ QUOTE ]
Point taken Bridger.

However, the nature of the misunderstandings of words, especially in writing, where facial or body-language clues are absent is an active part of this storyline.

If a player can't tell what the intention of the wording of a piece of writing is, then surely their character can only do so if they have superior empathic powers, and can apply them. The roleplay is in how the character's deal with it.

Are they the kind to just respond as is, or have their experiences as a hero in Paragon tought them to investigate rather than leap to an immediate decision on appearances? If the character thinks the petition is badly worded, do they attack it, or offer their support to make it better?

There are situations in text-based roleplay where clarifications are not appropriate.

The character White Vampyr produced a petition worded as it is. Other characters need to react to that as is, and decide what their heroic (or anti-heroic) character reaction will be, and what their response tells us about their own character.

The difference in interpretation is of course vital to a realistic storyline.

Any characters with the power to read the mind of White Vampyr just by holding a printed copy of a petition she wrote may have access to just one true interpretation. If your character has such powers, please feel free to PM me, here or in game.

For the rest of us, our characters just have to go on what they see, what if anything they know of the writer, and their own tendancy towards giving benefit of doubt or not.

So yes, OOC posts to ask about what was intended, are a problem unless you are asking as an omniscient character who could know. Non-omniscient characters don't need to know - just play it as your character interprets it. In life 5 witnesses to any event tend to have 5 different viewpoints of what occured, and while none knowingly lie, there is always a difference between absolute truth and subjective, interpreted truth.

I'm trying to paste in the OOC posts that made different points that should perhaps be addressed, rather than cover each variant of what may amount to the same question. If I miss any here, after these next couple, please do re-ask in this thread.

The next post raised a point that was particularly important for any OOC discussion though, and was originally posted by Shadowe:

((OOC Post.

Thanks, B.

Speaking for myself (as it's all I can do ), that would help a great deal.

However, as an RPer who has responded to the original as written twice now, I would like to add my two inf.

No one is attempting to malign the sentiment behind the petition (if I'm wrong, please tell me). However, as can clearly be seen, there is a vast gulf in the interpretation of the petition's intent. I do not know if this was intentional on Ammon's part (I hope it was, to be honest). A simple petition that every hero just signed and forgot about wouldn't be half as interesting as what has happened. We have two camps of heroes: Those who think it's great, and those who have seen it as an attempt to put the blame for the city's ills on the super-powered. This is a fantastic RP opportunity.

We've seen the free press take the ball and run with it, interpreting it to suit their own chosen bias, we've seen characters arguing about it. This is brilliant. What I am sorry to see is any OOC discussion about it.

It's happened. Let's RP the consequences. Let's not worry about what Ammon meant when he created the idea, let's just play our characters and see what happens.))

I'll expand on the above a little with some OOC info on Suzi that people may have missed, since it has been distributed around a lot of different threads, and so may not have all come together as I think this may help get some context to the piece.

Suzi is not a trained PR person, and has never been a political activist, although her song-writing was heavily influenced by what might be termed a social conscience.

There is quite a lot of public-domain information available that Suzi left a suicide note a year ago, and took an overdose, right at the height of her career. Her heart stopped in the ambulance on route to the Chiron Medical Center. An explosion at that hospital, which official investigations record as being due to a gas leak, lost the actual medical notes on the ward, so Suzi was recorded as having died as a result of overdose - which is probably the clearest evidence that she suffers from clinical depression one could ever get.

In other words, the character is no skilled statesman by any stretch of the imagination. In thinking about musicians who turn to politics to get inspiration, I was thinking of people like Bob Geldoff, Sting, and many others who say all the wrong things, even getting a lot of backs up, but have great passion for their cause.

So yes, the petition was deliberately written to say things poorly, not just because creating division and a rift was the main thing I wanted to put opportunity for into the storyline, but also because it was entirely in character.

I really don't want to talk too much about my own player objectives for the storyline, because I want to allow everyone their own interpretations, without feeling they'd be derailing the story. This isn't my story to dictate. It is our story to play with freely, all of us, and to spin whatever we want from.

Really, my idea was for the storyline to raise questions, for all of us, that would allow for character development. Mostly those questions are about how each hero sees their place in society.

Of course, the biggest problem for the story is that the 'game canon' is just loose enough that we all have slight variant interpretations of the game world.

Suzi has a teleporter that can take her directly to the emergency ward of the nearest hospital, as most heroes seem to have. Suzi is not aware of any 'regular citizen' having such a device, and is aware that many regular people just die, as she's never, when in hospital, seen a non hero arrive by medi-port device.

For her, heroes get life-saving special treatment not made available to ordinary people. If in your interpretation of the game-world all citizens have medi-porters, so that even pensioners are instantly transported to emergency treatment at need, that's an obvious difference that could cause some slight problems of aligning our realities, but I don't think it needs be a deal-breaker.

There are still a lot of great roleplaying opportunities to the storyline I believe, and I'm trying to stay clear of absolutes, or of having any GM or arbitrator for the story.

Originally posted by Ammon, in response to Ravenswing:

((Out of character then, it is written as the passionate and idealistic songwriter would have worded it. It is a piece of passion. She cannot understand the reasons some have reacted so poorly to it at all.

Having been a bigger celebrity in some ways (at least beyond hero-obsessed Paragon) before gaining her unwanted powers a year ago, Suzi mostly blames the media, but also feels that politicians trying to gain votes off of supporting popular heroes are to blame.

The first paragraph was very carefully worded (as a player) to catch up those who would fall into the common trap seen on these boards of trying to see things as purely black and white, pro or con. On these forums, criticism can never be constructive, and if one says "this could be better" one is accused insted of saying it is rubbish.

Let's look at that first paragraph which has set so many teeth on edge:


[ QUOTE ]
Paragon City is facing a huge problem. For too long, the city has idolized its super-powered citizens and ignored the real heroes in the city: the regular people who fight without the benefit of any super-powers, relying solely on human spirit and heart, to make the city work.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only possible problem there is that one could infer the writer is suggesting that only the non super-powered are 'real' heroes. It is not implied, as she has never felt that way, but it could be inferred that way by those who wished to. She has clearly and categorically stated that it is 'the city' as a whole that is doing this, and at no time in that paragraph assigns any responsibility for this on the heroes themselves, not even in suggestion. Again, she never asked for her powers, and hated them until she faced up to the fact she had them and had darned well decide what to do with them. Because doing nothing is also a choice for which one must judge oneself.

As a writer, that people can't seem to actually read between the lines without inserting their own bias could be annoying in other circumstances. As a player, it has been a wonderful opportunity to exploit a common foible and create some beautiful in game tension and attention.

A big thanks to everyone who has helped make this an interesting and passionate storyline, and put so much creative energy into the Petition thread.))

Originally posted by Ravenswing:

(( Out of character, and out of interest, it is really badly worded and it does insult super-powered heroes. The first paragraph is designed to set your teeth on edge. Was this actually by design, or purely accidental? Or would you rather not say? ))

This entire thread is for OOC discussion to clarify any questions that arise from the in-character posts in the original, IC thread on the Heroes for People petition and movement.

First a quick note of apology and explanation.

I apologise for not posting an OOC discussion sooner, as I did consider it, but I didn't want to be greedy in taking up 2 entire threads for what might have been quite a minor plot.

With other voices adding their suggestions for such an OOC thread, and considering the level of interest the plotline seems to have gained, I now feel a bit more confident that an OOC thread is merited.

I'm going to paste in some of the OOC questions that have occurred in the IC thread now, and do my best to answer all of the essential questions I can find that are needed to better interpret the IC events.

((OOC I just wanted to say, Veskit, that's one of the best RP portrayals of an embittered anti-hero so far.

I loved the bit where he says:
[ QUOTE ]
If that’s not trying to blame every hero and heroine in this city for the failings of the city’s pathetic parents then I’m a clockwork soldier

[/ QUOTE ]
As if he's never heard of the term orphan, and never seen kids without good parental influences. It is a perfect rendition of those weird people in society who have no concept of 'rebellious kids' and blame everything in society on bad parents.

His portrayal as a brutal thug, who's answer to everything is violence is great too, especially in the hints at child battering and his threats on an 18yr old kid who'd respected him but annoyed him unintentionally.
[ QUOTE ]
because if he does, he knows his mom and dad will punish him for it, because that’s our job

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now get the hell out of my face, I’m trying to spend time with my boy, and I really don’t want him to see me beating some sense into anyone before he’s had his lunch

[/ QUOTE ]

And although you are not the first to portray his anti-hero as un-knowing of how society really works, and obviously envious of others, the wording of those parts was really cool in showing it:
[ QUOTE ]
those people get paid to do what they do, they get medical insurance, health plans, days off, and once they retire they get pensions.

[/ QUOTE ]
Its good the way you've shown the character, as a brutal scrapper, to have never heard of legal aid, and know that it is provided unpaid by lawyers. That the very term, pro-bono, meaning for the good, is what lawyers use for all the many cases so many do for free that we all know the term. That he thinks surgeons put down their tools at the end of their shift, leaving the 14 hour emergency surgery unfinished, and has never heard of the hours of unpaid overtime that all medical staff give on a regular weekly basis (in addition to the 7 years spent getting their qualifications in a country where education is not given free)
[ QUOTE ]
when they retire they get nothing. No reward for all the work they’ve done keeping the streets clear of the scum the cops are too afraid to deal with

[/ QUOTE ]
Even though right at that very moment, even as a 'hero' who just upped and retired, feeling no responsibility to anyone to continue, and not having to provide any reasons or notice to anyone to just quit, even now, he's the subject of magazine articles, and is apparrently idolised by young trainee heroes, and treated as some hero to this day.

You really capped it off perfectly with the line:
[ QUOTE ]
As far as I’m concerned this city owes the heroes that protect it more than it can ever hope to repay

[/ QUOTE ]
Which is an almost direct reworking of the official Timeline's reasons for how super-villainy first began.
[ QUOTE ]
Many of the super villains that arose during the late forties and early fifties were actually veteran heroes who had fallen on hard times. While lauded across the land as heroes, for some the pride of patriotism was not reward enough. They had come to see themselves not as protectors of the common man, but as superior beings. And as superior beings these greedy souls felt the world owed them more than anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]
Bolding added for emphasis of the key phrases.

Really nice piece of work. A real anti-hero. Bravo))

"'ere, ya knows dat Mary gal from da ki'chins on the corner?"
"tha' smiley one, always treats us wi' decency?"
"Yer, tha's da one, well she's askin' dat we get ev'ryone to sign summat"
"you wha?"
"Yeah, s'truth. Some petition fing. Say's its important"

Overheard in various forms all over the East End of Kings Row from the homeless.

((OOC

[ QUOTE ]
Well, thank you for that cursory dismissal.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're most welcome.))

Mr Torch examined the document one of his agents had delivered. A petition. How... mundane. If you are super-powered and you want to change things, you just go out and change them. No need to ask the ants for permission.

Its not like the snot-nosed masses wouldn't do the same if they only had the same opportunities. Heck, it was the refusal of the masses to accept their inferior abilities, and pay decent respect to those with greater power that had caused the massive rise in villains anyway. Damn morons had brought it on themselves.

Torch recalled with perfect clarity what the text books had said on the subject:
[ QUOTE ]
Many of the super villains that arose during the late forties and early fifties were actually veteran heroes who had fallen on hard times. While lauded across the land as heroes, for some the pride of patriotism was not reward enough. They had come to see themselves not as protectors of the common man, but as superior beings. And as superior beings these greedy souls felt the world owed them more than anyone else. ((source: official Timeline))

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite right too. The whole basis of capitalism is to reap reward according to the results produced. The super-powered were capable of far greater labour, better ideas, superior invention, and indeed, of being all that supported the weak mewling masses of Paragon, or anywhere else for that matter.

"I'll respect the pitiful masses when the people of Paragon can stand on their own two feet without sinking into the mud", Mr Torch muttered to himself, "There are too many fools who blame us so-called 'villains' for their own failure to make Paragon the silly idealistic utopia they think they deserve. Like it is our duty to help them to the detriment of ourselves? What a load of trash!"

I've spent the majority of my life, using my powers for the good of myself and society, employing hundreds of lackeys, paying my taxes (minus the deductions and dodges) and all manner of things. All they've done in return is try to label me as some kind of enemy of the people, just because they envy and despise my superior powers.

Mr. Torch despised these hypocritical do-gooder types, lashing themselves to some strange martydom 'for the people' and looking down on those smarter and wiser than to do anything so self-destructive.

Mr. Torch incinerated the paper in his hands with a thought. Thankfully there were few of the selfless martyrs in any community, super-powered or otherwise. Most shared his rational and enlightened self-interest. Some would even practically quote his own thoughts.

Mr. Torch did not sign the petition.

((All OOC

[ QUOTE ]
[All OOC as noted]I have to admit that I've put almost no creative energy in there.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then there's really no point in discussing it with you. I'll save my replying efforts for the ones interested in the storyline opportunities.

For anyone interested enough to put in any creative effort, then according to the TIMELINE from the actual game, The Citizen's Crime Fighting Act was passed by a pro-hero city council and mayor back in 1937. Just 5 years of exposure to heroes, (since according to the same official timeline, superpowers had not been seen since the time of the ancient greeks until Statesman showed up 5 years previously).

[ QUOTE ]
From the official COH Timeline:

The city council and mayoral elections of 1936 swept a platform of pro-hero candidates that resulted in the passage of the Citizen Crime Fighting Act of 1937.

[/ QUOTE ]

))

((Since you ask, I'll suggest that perhaps because that's how you have played her? She (Grav) actively patronises the young hero in the post above, practically patting him on the head like a troublesome puppy, and saying "there there, poor silly boy, I'm so much smarter than you"

That is what Powerstone reacted to, having overheard only the last parts of her little lecture, and seen the crushed look she put on the face of the young and idealistic hero, rather than positive encouragement. She agrandised herself, happily making the young hero feel lesser and stupid to make herself feel all glorious and self-important.

Powerstone probably has all of the same qualifications of heroism as Grav, (perhaps more, perhaps not) but unlike her, he believes a hero's duty is to inspire and support people.

Powerstone absolutely hated her attitude. That's simply how he would react to the scene you described. He's rather old-school about 'noblesse oblige' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noblesse_oblige

Suzi meanwhile responded to Grav more generically, having heard the complaints and accusations of dozens of people that day. She too noted a complete lack of ability to make constructive criticism or be encouraging to the least degree (only a very few, such as Crimson Archer, were offering anything but attacks upon her and her motives). Suzi is an idealist, and is having trouble believing that most supers can't see that 'super' and 'hero' are not synonyms.

Her petition and cause is about the fact that some can only see heroism if it comes in a super-powered package. Grav became a prime case of just that symptom, seeming to think that 'super' and 'hero' are synonyms. (See post above and chat logs if you have them).

Of course, several accused Suzi of being a 'glory w*ore', and probably believe it. Character interpretations are part of the fun of playing a role after all.

Whether truly heroic supers should be smarter than to leap to prejudiced conclusions is a whole different player discussion, and for each player to decide for their own character(s). That help explain the roles? ))

((Out of character then, it is written as the passionate and idealistic songwriter would have worded it. It is a piece of passion. She cannot understand the reasons some have reacted so poorly to it at all.

Having been a bigger celebrity in some ways (at least beyond hero-obsessed Paragon) before gaining her unwanted powers a year ago, Suzi mostly blames the media, but also feels that politicians trying to gain votes off of supporting popular heroes are to blame.

The first paragraph was very carefully worded (as a player) to catch up those who would fall into the common trap seen on these boards of trying to see things as purely black and white, pro or con. On these forums, criticism can never be constructive, and if one says "this could be better" one is accused insted of saying it is rubbish.

Let's look at that first paragraph which has set so many teeth on edge:

[ QUOTE ]
Paragon City is facing a huge problem. For too long, the city has idolized its super-powered citizens and ignored the real heroes in the city: the regular people who fight without the benefit of any super-powers, relying solely on human spirit and heart, to make the city work.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only possible problem there is that one could infer the writer is suggesting that only the non super-powered are 'real' heroes. It is not implied, as she has never felt that way, but it could be inferred that way by those who wished to. She has clearly and categorically stated that it is 'the city' as a whole that is doing this, and at no time in that paragraph assigns any responsibility for this on the heroes themselves, not even in suggestion. Again, she never asked for her powers, and hated them until she faced up to the fact she had them and had darned well decide what to do with them. Because doing nothing is also a choice for which one must judge oneself.

As a writer, that people can't seem to actually read between the lines without inserting their own bias could be annoying in other circumstances. As a player, it has been a wonderful opportunity to exploit a common foible and create some beautiful in game tension and attention.

A big thanks to everyone who has helped make this an interesting and passionate storyline, and put so much creative energy into the Petition thread.))

[ QUOTE ]
The young hero nodded still a bit baffled that something with the right intentions could go wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

As he turned to leave the MAGI offices himself, he was stopped by a kindly voice, and looked up to see a smiling gentleman in a fine Saville Row suit, "What have you there, young man?"

The young hero showed the papers, half expecting another lecture to crush his spirits, but instead, the gentleman smiled and said "About time too. May I sign?"

As Powerstone signed the paper with a flourish, the young man asked him why Grav Mistress and some other heroes had been refusing to sign and mentioned some of the arguments against it he had heard.

"Well youngster," the ancient mage began, "some people have too much vested interest in being super and special I think."

He lokked almost saddened for a moment as he added, "They like the worship, and like to think that they alone make this city what it is. Some will boast of their awards, medals and citations. Others will claim that people in the past picked on heroes, so it is only fair that they should lord it above the common-folk now. We can't go around expecting all heroes to want to share the glory. Some think they deserve it all."

The young man looked confused once more and asked, "But they are heroes right? I mean, Grav Mistress has been an inspiration to me. Are you trying to say she's selfish? She's saved the world you know!"

The mage laughed as he replied, "Who hasn't?".

Looking serious again, he said, "How would she have saved the world without the information given her by countless contacts from the regular people? What about the medical attention she has recieved on goodness knows how many occassions, all paid for by the taxes of the common people?"

Although the young hero saw the point the mage was making, his one-time adoration to Grav Mistress was tearing him away from the obvious conclusion.

Seeing this, Powerstone explained, "No, she's not selfish, Youngster. She is simply unwise, and probably too young to have seen first-hand that we, society, are all connected. That socety is based on all persons, of all abilities, pulling together for the good of all."

"Did you ever hear of the Minoan Empire young man?" The mage inquired.

"Er, yes, sort of. Ancient history stuff..." the young hero replied, confused again.

"Good. You see what made the Minoan Empire so special, that it is remembered even though it was entirely destroyed by one of the world's largest volcanic erruptions, is important to realise. You see, other Empires had many of the same wonders. We know of the luxury of the Roman villas, with their baths, running water, under-floor heating and so forth. We know that the elite of many lands had such luxuries that we take for granted today. But what was special about the Minoan Empire was that its lowliest citizens had plumbing and sewer drainage, and well made homes. Every house had such things, not just the palaces of the nobles. Just like today in fact. A society is not judged by how it treats its elite and influential. It is judged by how it treats its lowliest. My homeland ccan be more proud of having been among the leaders in abolishing slavery, and introducing healthcare for all and free education for all than all its days of empire building."

The young man nodded, seeing the truth.

"Don't expect to get everyone to sign, youngster. But pay no heed to the thoughtless excuses some will make. You are doing the right thing"

((OOC: This petition is now circulating around Paragon City))

Heroes for People

Paragon City is facing a huge problem. For too long, the city has idolized its super-powered citizens and ignored the real heroes in the city: the regular people who fight without the benefit of any super-powers, relying solely on human spirit and heart, to make the city work.

The non-super-powered police who's vigilance and stake-outs lead heroes to foil bank raids. The skilled but not super-powered medics who save hundreds of heroes around the clock at the emergency mediport wards in hospitals around the city. The tireless lawyers who actually prosecute cases against criminals. The millions of regular citizens who actually make Paragon a city, and not a war-zone.

The city puts up statue after statue of the super-powered, sending the message to the kids out there that if you can't be super-powered, you can't be anyone. So the kids turn to 'dyne or gangs, desperate for power, since only power is acknowledged in our sad city.

It is time this stopped.

It is time the city recognized the true heroes of Paragon. Those who don't have super-powers to rely on and still make a difference. Those who keep the city running without the glory, status, or influence given to the cape-wearing few.

It is time Paragon City gave its youth something to aspire to that is real and useful. To give its citizens pride in themselves, not just their super-powered defenders. It is time there were heroes for the people.

We the undersigned are petitioning the Paragon City Council to erect no more statues of super-heroes, but instead donate those funds to puttiong more clinics for the homeless in the streets of Kings Row and Skyway. To offer scholarships to bright kids in the run-down areas such as the Hollows, giving them an alternative to 'dyne, gangs, and crime.

It has been a long time since super-heroes took political action, and used political means to make society a better place. Not since the great Might for Right marches have the super-powered marched on Government buildings to affect change through demonstration. We feel it is time again for change to be affected not through super-powers, but through demonstration of our spirit and will to see positive changes made real. We shall seek to hold a mass meeting of super-heroes to honor the regular citizens - those we are here to Protect and Serve, not be raised above.

Please sign this petition to show your support for the real heroes of Paragon City - its people.

Signed: Suzi White, aka White Vampyr, citizen of Paragon.

((Please sign below as any character that would support this petition, and feel free to direct other players to the thread if your character would be helping get signatures on the petition))