80sBaby

No problem.
It's the last scan on the page.

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/s...&pagenumber=20

Cap actually knows all forms of martial arts. His primary fighting style, however, is a perfect blend of various fighting forms, predominantly American boxing and judo.

But he adjusts as needed.

Yeah, Cytorrak doesn't seem too picky about who does the smashing in his name just as long as someone's smashing things in his name.

It's not actually a metallic alloy and has been resistant to magnetism for quite some time. Tony's also immune to EMP's.

Actually, it grew organically from the story. It was a literal last ditch effort by the X-Men to stop Juggernaught, who had also gained the powers of a Norse god. Cyclops went through every conceivable way to stop him and they all failed. So, Magik, Kitty and Peter beseeched Cytorak to remove his power from Cain. Illyana was going to recieve the power but Colossus took her place, at the last minute. He then went back to the battlefield and fought Worthy Cain, defeating him.

Not true. How well did Grant Morrison's Doom Patrol sell? Or his Seven Soldiers? His last issues of Batman Inc were starting to slip, slaeswise, too. I also mentioned Gail Simone earlier and how horrid her Wonder Woman run was.

Then, there's logistics. It's not at all plausible for Geoff Johns to write every character at DC nor can Jim Lee draw every book. They DO have a staple of very good writers (Fraction, Brubaker, Johns, Azzarello, etc) but the problem is that:

1. Writing/art is subjective. Look at James Robinson. His Starman series was well recieved but his Justice League was considered horrible by most and sales reflected this.

2. Jim Lee created Wildstorm and that universe folded. He's not the Second Coming and anything he touches most certainly doesn't turn to gold.

It's really not anywhere as simple as we fans would like to make it. Saying all they need is "good writing and good art" doesn't cut it. Secret Six is another book with a loyal fanbase, great writing and art. But it was selling lower than the lowest of the new 52 titles.

No need as I'm sure this will definately be news to some people. I frequent the DC Message Boards and other comic sites so I was up on it but not everyone is as much of a geek as I am.

Oh, and it's going to be based on Waid's Tower of Babel storyline (the one where Ra's steals Batman's protocols and uses them against the League,) if you were wondering. Should be really good.

I don't see how but I'll wait for your explanation.

Agreed. If nobody's buying then why would a company keep making the product?

As much as people on these MB's complain about "Event" books, bottom line is, they sell.

Agreed and keeping Bruce/Cap dead and allowing the next generation to truly "step-up" would have been a step in that direction.

Well, that would depend on sales figures. I don't think they should keep a low selling title going because that wouldn't be very good for business.

Well, here's the thing. You say they should market towards adults but many others think the problem is that kids are being left behind. It's a 'damned if you do or don't' situation. Marketing more towards adults means going after a shrinking fanbase with set favorites and who are resistant to change. That's how they got into the mess they're in now.

And they are advertising more, with the re-launch. I love the new 52. I'm now buying 15 books when, prior, I was only getting 2.

But you do understand the rationale behind that though, right? A new, minority character will never sell as much as an established character/name. I mean, what was the last original minority character the Big 2 introduced that was successful? I'm sure Batwing would be selling less if he had zero connection to Batman. Same with your "Spiderwing" idea.

Now, I'm not saying they should do this with every character they have but I don't have any issue when they do because I understand the reasoning behind it.

It's like people who complained about Nightwing becoming Batman. Some claimed he could be made into a great hero without taking up the mantle, which is true, from a story-telling standpoint. But DC is a business first. Batman, as a brand, is the money-maker. For that reason alone, Nightwing will NEVER be shown as capable as he should be nor will he ever be allowed to surpass his mentor.

Except "good writing" is subjective. I haven't seen "people" say the writing's bad only 1 person on this board. Most of the other boards I visit (DCMB, KMC and CBR) have people happy with the book. Just not very many are trying it.

Oh, and have you seen the art on Batwing? Copiel is killing it!

Sharing an occupation doesn't make their stories the same. Their characters, motivations and the likely results are different.

Actually, I never called the Kingdom original. I said I like the concept and find their backstory intriguing.

You brought up originality.

Unless it's not the story you think it is. There may well be another reason for david to remember his brother. It gives us more insight into the character.

Passion doesn't automatically eqate quality as I'm sure Leifeld and Loeb were very passionate about Youngblood and Rulk, respectively. Didn't help the story at all, though.

On the other hand, Brian Azzarello doesn't seem particularly amped up about Wonder Woman yet has one of the most critically/commercially succesful runs so far. Definately better than Gail's run and nobody can accuse her of being dispassionate about Diana.

And who says it was "just because?" DC felt the character has potebtial otherwise why even bother paying people to work on it. They are a business and, without some idea it would pay off, they're not gonna do it. Obviously there's a market for Batwing as it's selling more than 1 issue. Maybe not as much as other heroes may bring in but it was worth the shot and they did put quality talent on it. Seems like it was thought out more than you think it was.

Anything can be overly deconstructed to be seen as derivitive of something else, especially Batman (and, by extension, his entire family.) And what plot from Nightwing is being duplicated here, out of curiosity?

And yes, the Kingdom could be seen as JLAfrica. The problem with that is what, exactly? How many other superteams are out there patterned after the JLA model? They ALL can be seen as "the JL of whatever" or some twist on the existing fomula. You don't only read Justice League and JSA, do you? The interesting part is the storylines involving the characters, not where the ideas originated. I like wondering who was a part of the Kingdom, what they did and why it disbanded.

I like the mystery of who Masacre is. Yeah, his brother's an (too) obvious choice but it's not a sure bet (he didn't seem to recognize him in the police station when he stabbed him and David hasn't said anything about him seeming familiar.) Massacre's smart and vicicous. He's relentless and a good foil for the hero.

As far as "mandates" go, who cares? How else do you think diversity happens? People claim there's not enough different races/gender/preference diversification in comics and when the suits decide to give a new character a shot, it's blasted? It's a no-win situation. Again, how a character came to be is less important to me than how interesting said character is. You nor I have no clue if a Night Runner series would've been good or crap. Just because they didn't go with your choice doesn't mean they made the wrong one.

Ok, gotcha.

I haven't played any of the Incarnate trials, yet. But, I agree with you that soloing would be the better course of action based on what I understand it to be.

To continue using comic examples, when Thor or Superman are on a team, they're generally written down so they don't overshadow the others, which makes sense. When they're solo, however, you get to see them truly unleashed. These are the times when Thor takes on Galactus or Thanos, Supes beats down Darkseid, etc. When a team of this stature DOES form (see any Crisis, Annihilation, etc) then it's a truly EPIC fight, with some of the most Uber-cosmic baddies involved.

If I'm now understanding correctly, this is what some people want with Incarnate.

Fixed that for you.

5 sisters and multiple girlfriends have taught me that Woman Logic = oxymoron

The best part is that he's using Roger Rabbit as his go-to example. A movie almost 30 years old. Since that time cartoons have clearly become more than simply "kid's stuff." I mean we have animated movies being nominated for Best Film Academy Awards, prime-time cartoons (Family Guy, Simpsons, Cleveland Show, etc) which are certainly NOT for children, nostaligic cartons coming back for the older fans and that's not even getting into anime.

And, again, aren't video games and comics considered for children by the vast majority of people who don't play/read them? Who cares what they think?