Help with Dark/Dark

Hi!

Way back when Dark Armor was added as a Tanker primary, I created a Dark/Dark tank and eventually got her to 50. Sadly, I never really had great success with her compared to my main tank, who's Ice/Ice.

The play style I find myself with is

1. Jump into mob and use Soul Drain or Taunt to get aggro.
2. Start pounding stuff while my team starts to work.
3. Watch my health plummet quickly and hit Dark Regeneration to completely refill (assuming no ToHit debuffs are on me).
4. Keep watching health plummet and hope everything is dead before I am.

She was initially fear-based, but I've tried to convert her to using Oppressive Gloom to save endurance... neither way seems very sturdy.

On paper, it seems like she has good resists (68% S/L, 62% Psi) and decent defense (24.9% S/L, 34.2% Melee), too... so I'm not sure what's wrong.

Maybe Dark/Dark just lacks the mitigation tools or damage to really survive?

I almost always team and play PvE, FWIW. Please let me know if you've got suggestions and thanks in advance!

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Shadow of the Valley: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(3), ResDam-I(3), EndRdx-I(7)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(34), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(37), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), T'Death-Dam%(48)
Level 2: Murky Cloud -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(5), ResDam-I(5), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(33), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Oblit-%Dam(50)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(7), ResDam-I(43)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Acc-I(A), Nictus-Acc/Heal(9), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(9), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(13), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Taunt -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(21)
Level 14: Super Jump -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Winter-ResSlow(33), Zephyr-ResKB(50)
Level 18: Death Shroud -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(19), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(19), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Oblit-%Dam(46)
Level 20: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 22: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), EndRdx-I(23), EndRdx-I(25)
Level 24: Cloak of Darkness -- EndRdx-I(A), DefBuff-I(25), DefBuff-I(45), EndRdx-I(46)
Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(27), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(40), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(48), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(48)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(29), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(29), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Oblit-%Dam(31)
Level 30: Smite -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(42), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(42), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), T'Death-Dam%(46)
Level 32: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(36), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(36), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(37), P'Shift-End%(50)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), T'Death-Dam%(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(45), Heal-I(45)
Level 47: Soul Transfer -- Heal-I(A)
Level 49: Weave -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(17), EndMod-I(17)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
------------

Welcome back to the wonderful world of Dark Armor. Although they're a bit older, I suggest you look at Jebe the Pirate's guide to dark tanks, there's still some good information in there. Additionally, find any post by Dechs Kaison and get the link to his Dark Armor guides as well.

Taking a quick glance at your build. First off all, you're chasing after a lot of positional set bonuses, which for me, isn't a preferred approach. Most Positional bonuses are found in the 5-6 enhancement slotting, where as most typed bonuses can be found in the 3-4 enhancement slotting. So you can typically get better set bonuses with less slots if you focus on Typed Defenses. With that in mind I focus on S/L defense first, then E/N and if I can, shore up F/C defenses.

Dark Regeneration is the perfect spot for the Theft of Essence:Chance for +endurance proc. Drop one in there and you'll love it. Anytime you use Dark Regen, you'll have a chance to regain some of the endurance you've used. It procs often enough when you use it, not only will it refill your health, it will sometimes refill your endurance bar.

I also find Oppressive Gloom to be a one slot wonder. So I'd spread those slots around elsewhere. I prefer 4 slotting Reactive Armor(Res, Res/Rech, Res/End, Res/Rech/End) in the armors for the +e/n and +s/l defense bonuses. So those would go in Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud, Obsidian Shield and Tough. I'd add two additional slots to Dark Embrace, where I'd add in the Steadfast unique and a -kb enhancement. Doing that little bit alone will put your s/l defenses at nearly 30%. (if you include 3 -4kb enhancements to your build, you won't need Acrobatics)

While I don't mind Obliteration in Soul Drain, it has very little End redux in it, and is a poor fit for Death Shroud. Where I can, I'll 3 slot Eradication in AoE attacks for the E/N defense bonuses.

Anyway, I'm being horribly long winded. Let me show you two different versions of my dark tank build. The first is S/L defense capped, the second is one I need to test out, but is one I'm considering going for. It's S/L/E/N capped, and should be endurance sustainable in long fights. (That's what I need to test to make sure.. )

Additionally there are 4 accolades that you'll want to grab. They give you permanent +hp and +end. The should be selected in the Mids build.

Build 1: Soft capped S/L
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Interruption: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(3), RctvArm-ResDam(5), S'fstPrt-ResKB(5), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(7)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(7), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 2: Smite -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(13), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), RctvArm-ResDam(15)
Level 6: Shadow Maul -- Cloud-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Cloud-Acc/ToHitDeb(17), Cloud-ToHitDeb(17), Erad-Acc/Rchg(19), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Theft-+End%(A), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(21), Theft-Heal/Rchg(23), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(23), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 12: Obsidian Shield -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(27), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), RctvArm-ResDam(29)
Level 14: Taunt -- Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(31), Mocking-Taunt/Rng(31), Mocking-Rchg(31)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- Nictus-Heal(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(33), Nictus-Acc/Heal(33), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(33), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A), Zephyr-ResKB(34)
Level 20: Death Shroud -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(34), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg(36), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 22: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Def(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(37)
Level 24: Cloak of Darkness -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def(37), Krma-ResKB(39)
Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- HO:Endo(A)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Rec'dRet-ToHit(40), Rec'dRet-ToHit/Rchg(40)
Level 30: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42)
Level 32: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RctvArm-ResDam(43)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(43), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(45), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(46), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx(A)
Level 44: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(48), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(48), GftotA-Def(48)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-End%(A)
Level 49: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(50)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(50), EndMod-I(50)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Cardiac Total Radial Revamp
------------

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Thanks for the suggestions! I was going for those Melee defense bonuses at the 5-6 enh level, hoping it might help, but will look at the typed ones you mentioned. I didn't even know about that end proc, too, so will look for it!

I had Siphon Life when I was running Cloak of Fear, but seemed like I wasn't getting much bang from it for the end. I agree it SHOULD be useful, though.

Do you guys slot Siphon Life for healing, then, or damage? Or both?

You can do a touch of both. If you look at the second build I focused on getting s/l defense set bonuses, then added a healing HO in there as well. Again, it's up to you.

You've already received some good advice and some very workable builds in this thread, so I'll just add my 0.02 worth of experience and reassurance to the mix.

Once you get your Tanker outfitted with 45% S/L/E/N typed defenses and get a Theft of Essence +End proc, you're going to see a phenomenal improvement in your survivability. Dark Armor is actually in an odd position balance-wise since most of the drawbacks to playing a DA tank are also things that can be patched or eliminated with the Inventions system. The result, if you're willing to go for a high-end build, is an extremely powerful character. If you take the character all the way through the incarnate process, the Ageless destiny power also bears mentioning, as it is your ticket to getting significant Defense Debuff Resistance so that your IO Set Defense numbers don't suffer from cascading failure.

My first DA tank is now my go-to tank for anything. He's more useful than my Stone and more survivable than anything else I've played, and regularly out-tanks other Tankers playing more 'traditional' tank powersets like Stone or Invuln (those are strong sets too, but their weaknesses aren't as easy to patch with IOs). I've got three DA tanks now and I'll likely roll up more in the future. It's a fantastic powerset.

I've started working towards a build like Rangle's second one with a couple of Kinetic Combat bonuses and the Theft of the Essence +End proc for Dark Regeneration. I can already tell a difference!

That proc is AMAZING in Dark Regeneration.

Thanks for the help, everyone!

since this is a dark/dark tank thread, i was wondering if youd take a look at my current build. (its what im working towards anyway)


Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Death Shroud -- Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(A), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(37), EndRdx-I(40), Armgdn-Dmg(42), Armgdn-Dam%(42)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- SipInsght-%ToHit(A), SipInsght-ToHitDeb(11), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(36), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 2: Dark Embrace -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(34), EndRdx-I(34), EndRdx-I(34)
Level 4: Murky Cloud -- ResDam-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(23), EndRdx-I(25), EndRdx-I(25)
Level 6: Smite -- SMotTanker-Acc/Dmg(A), SMotTanker-Dmg/Rchg(7), SMotTanker-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SMotTanker-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SMotTanker-Rchg/Res%(46), SMotTanker-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 8: Obsidian Shield -- ResDam-I(A), ResDam-I(9), EndRdx-I(9), EndRdx-I(15)
Level 10: Dark Regeneration -- EndRdx-I(A), Theft-+End%(11)
Level 12: Cloak of Darkness -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(13), LkGmblr-EndRdx/Rchg(13), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(27)
Level 14: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 16: Tough -- ResDam-I(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(17), EndRdx-I(17), EndRdx-I(21)
Level 18: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(19), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19), EndRdx-I(21)
Level 20: Fly -- Zephyr-ResKB(A)
Level 22: Air Superiority -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 24: Afterburner -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Oppressive Gloom -- Amaze-Stun(A), Amaze-Acc/Stun/Rchg(27), Amaze-Acc/Rchg(29), Amaze-EndRdx/Stun(29), Amaze-ToHitDeb%(33)
Level 28: Siphon Life -- Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Theft-Acc/Heal(43), Theft-Acc/EndRdx/Heal(43), Dmg-I(43)
Level 30: Soul Drain -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(31), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(31), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(31), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Build%(33)
Level 32: Soul Transfer -- Panac-Heal/+End(A)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- GravAnch-Hold%(A), ToHitDeb-I(39), GravAnch-Immob(39), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Focused Accuracy -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), EndRdx-I(45), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(45), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Physical Perfection -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(48), Mrcl-Rcvry+(48)
Level 49: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(3), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(5), EndMod-I(5)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
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For future reference, it's usually better to make your own thread for this sort of thing, since people may not check an existing thread for a new person's help request in the same way. You can also get into trouble for necro-posting if you add onto a thread that is very old (not a problem here, but bears mentioning).

That said, here's some feedback on the build you posted:

1) You're using several purples in this build but on other powers you're not using any Invention Sets at all, so the build is a bit uneven and there's a lot of room for improvement here. Overall, your first priority should be Defense. Right now you don't have any direction on this, you're kind of building all forms of Defense more or less equally. This is not a good approach.

You should choose one of two approaches - typed or positional. Positional generally is harder to do and requires more sacrifices to reach, but is more effective. Nearly all attacks in the game have a type and a position and the game uses whatever Defense value you have that is higher when doing calculations. For example, if a guy throws a melee Fire attack at you, the game will use your melee defense OR your fire defense, whichever is higher. This is why building for everything isn't a good idea - you want to go one way or the other. Your target should be 45% - either 45% Smashing/Lethal/Energy/Negative (the most common types) or 45% Melee/Ranged/AOE (the three positions). Don't get too crazy with purples as they aren't that great for defense bonuses - once you hit your Set Bonus goals you can come back and add in purples here and there where you can for more damage and recharge.

If damage is a bigger concern for you than survivability, you might be happier making a Dark/Dark Brute instead of a Tanker (assuming you haven't already started playing your tank). Now to touch on specific areas I'd look at in the build:

2) Consider Reactive Armor for your resistance-based armor powers (Dark Embrace, Murky Cloud, Obsidian Shield, Tough), as it offers good Defense bonuses if you choose to go the Typed route. Consider Titanium Coating or Aegis if going Positional.

3) Cloak of Darkness is overslotted - you can make better use of those slots elsewhere. I wouldn't go beyond two or three slots total here as you are way over ED caps with five-slotting.

4) You have 8 points of KB protection. In general, 4 points will protect you against most of the KB in the game. 8 points will not save you from much that 4 points wouldn't have also covered. You want either 4 points or 12 points, and for a Tanker I recommend 12 points. I'd find room for another -KB IO. You could put a Karma into Cloak of Darkness, for instance.

5) Siphon Life is a very good single-target attack in addition to being a self-heal. Since you're Dark/Dark and already have the most powerful self-heal in the game in Dark Regeneration, I recommend slotting Siphon Life more like an attack.

6) Dark Regeneration needs more slots! This is a key Dark Armor power and it needs good slotting for accuracy, endurance reduction and recharge. Having the Theft of Essence proc there is a good start, but this is still very under-enhanced. I usually at least five-slot this, if not six-slot.


That should be a start. This build seems unfinished in many places, and I'd be happy to offer further feedback as you develop it. I'm sure plenty of other folks around here would do the same.

thank you for the reply! im taking all of your information into consideration. Ill be working on the build today, so hopefully i can post a revamped version soon. Also, i did not know that about defenses.

Seems like i have a lot of work to do!

Thanks for all of the advice, its not going unheard!