TW/ElecA Scrapper - Need lots of Help

Riius Indigo · 07-24-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nihilii

The value is shown in the same power window, although you want to toggle the "Enhance" tab to see it. No base value or anything to tweak here, damage enhancement is always damage enhancement.

So, that would be the window that pops up when I hover my mouse over a particular attack power in Mids? I think that is the same thing I see in the Enhance tab. For example, when I hover over Whirling Smash, I see a damage Buff/Debuff value of:

96.30% (Pre-ED: 108.65%)

Is that what you are referring to?

Nihilii · 07-25-2012 02:06 AM

Yep, that's exactly it. I disable that particular feature so forgot it even existed.

Riius Indigo · 07-25-2012 02:22 AM

Okay, here's yet another update to the build. I think this one has everything covered... I hope

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Lawgiver Titan: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Titan Weapons
Secondary Power Set: Electric Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Crushing Blow

(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(3) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(5) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(5) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

Level 1: Charged Armor

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(7) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(7) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge
(9) Reactive Armor - Endurance
(9) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 2: Lightning Field

(A) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage
(11) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(11) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown
(13) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
(13) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(15) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus

Level 4: Titan Sweep

(A) Obliteration - Damage
(21) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(23) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(23) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(25) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(25) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 6: Conductive Shield

(A) Resist Damage IO
(27) Resist Damage IO

Level 8: Follow Through

(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(27) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(29) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(29) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 10: Static Shield

(A) Reactive Armor - Resistance
(31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(31) Reactive Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 12: Build Momentum

(A) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff
(33) Rectified Reticle - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(33) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 14: Super Jump

(A) Springfoot - Jumping

Level 16: Combat Jumping

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
(33) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 18: Grounded

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 20: Rend Armor

(A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
(34) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(34) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(48) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge

Level 22: Boxing

(A) Kinetic Combat - Accuracy/Damage
(34) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Endurance
(36) Kinetic Combat - Damage/Recharge
(36) Kinetic Combat - Knockdown Bonus

Level 24: Tough

(A) Impervium Armor - Resistance
(36) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance
(37) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Recharge
(37) Impervium Armor - Resistance/Endurance/Recharge

Level 26: Weave

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge
(39) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 28: Whirling Smash

(A) Obliteration - Damage
(39) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(40) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(42) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 30: Energize

(A) Numina's Convalescence - Heal
(42) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Recharge
(43) Numina's Convalescence - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
(50) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 32: Arc of Destruction

(A) Obliteration - Damage
(43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(43) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(45) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(45) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(45) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage

Level 35: Lightning Reflexes

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 38: Power Sink

(A) Performance Shifter - EndMod/Recharge
(42) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 41: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(46) Recharge Reduction IO
(48) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 44: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(46) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
(48) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed

Level 47: Conserve Power

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 49: Physical Perfection

(A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

(A) Quickfoot - RunSpeed

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Empty

Level 2: Rest

(A) Empty

Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 2: Health

(A) Miracle - Heal
(15) Miracle - +Recovery
(17) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
(17) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
(19) Healing IO

Level 2: Hurdle

(A) Jumping IO

Level 2: Stamina

(A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
(19) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
(21) Endurance Modification IO

Level 1: Momentum
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

12% DamageBuff(Smashing)
12% DamageBuff(Lethal)
12% DamageBuff(Fire)
12% DamageBuff(Cold)
12% DamageBuff(Energy)
12% DamageBuff(Negative)
12% DamageBuff(Toxic)
12% DamageBuff(Psionic)
37.25% Defense(Smashing)
37.25% Defense(Lethal)
6% Defense(Fire)
6% Defense(Cold)
8.5% Defense(Energy)
8.5% Defense(Negative)
7.88% Defense(Psionic)
30.06% Defense(Melee)
7.25% Defense(Ranged)
6% Defense(AoE)
2.25% Max End
45% Enhancement(Accuracy)
37.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
5% SpeedFlying
195.8 HP (14.62%) HitPoints
5% JumpHeight
5% SpeedJumping
MezResist(Immobilized) 10.45%
MezResist(Stunned) 6.6%
5% (0.08 End/sec) Recovery
44% (2.45 HP/sec) Regeneration
5% SpeedRunning
36% GlobalChanceMod PlayerCrit

Code:

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Riius Indigo · 07-26-2012 08:43 AM

*bump*

rina_ · 07-26-2012 09:22 AM

I don't have much experience with damage auras but I feel like you have Lightning Field slotted too much considering that a few of your main attack powers only have 4 or 5 slots. I'd put those overwhelming force ios in Rend Armor and add another slot to Follow Through. Also those slots in Physical Perfection aren't getting you that much end recovery. I would move them into Rend Armor and Crushing Blow or into Lightning Field to push that back up a bit again.

Apart from that it looks quite solid.

Sailboat · 07-26-2012 10:54 AM

Haven't reviewed in detail. At a cursory glance, however, you're using a lot of Obliteration sets that are notoriously bad for endurance, but give positional defense...and you're using Kinetic Combats and Reactive Armors for typed defense. It's less than optimal to mix positional and typed defense bonuses -- unless there's some specific reason you're doing it, you might want to go all one or all the other.

Also, some attacks appear to be 4-slotted while Health is 5-slotted. I like having stuff in Health, too, but not at the expense of my attacks.

If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

Riius Indigo · 07-26-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailboat

Haven't reviewed in detail. At a cursory glance, however, you're using a lot of Obliteration sets that are notoriously bad for endurance, but give positional defense...and you're using Kinetic Combats and Reactive Armors for typed defense. It's less than optimal to mix positional and typed defense bonuses -- unless there's some specific reason you're doing it, you might want to go all one or all the other.

Also, some attacks appear to be 4-slotted while Health is 5-slotted. I like having stuff in Health, too, but not at the expense of my attacks.

@rina_ Thank you!! I've implemented your suggestions, and it looks better now.

@Sailboat, the Oblits help with damage and accuracy. Earlier on in this thread, issues around accuracy were brought up. Setting the exemping value in Mids tool down to 39 for +4s showed me that I would have a hard time hitting anything in iTrials, or +4(x8) farms. That said, I am going with Cardiac Core Paragon for my Alpha to help with endurance, and I just got Portal Jockey too.

Do you still think I need to do something about the Oblits? And if so, what?

Also, you are definitely correct about going positional and typed, though it wasn't my intention

Do you have some suggestions on how I might fix it? The Kinetic Combats seem to give bonuses to both positional and type Defenses. I could change the Reactive Armors. What would you suggest?

Sailboat · 07-26-2012 12:02 PM

Well, at work without access to Mid's right now.

If you look closely, you'll see that all sets that give a defense give half that value in the "mirror" sort of defense -- smashing & lethal typed defense sets give half that value in melee, and melee positional defense sets give half that value in smashing & lethal. Ditto for energy & negative <--> ranged, and fire & cold <--> AoE.

Since positional defense plays differently from typed (if you have high melee positional defense, you want to close in, but don't care what sort of damage the enemy meleers are wielding; if you have high fire typed defense you don't care where you stand but like to fight fire-wielding foes, and so on) I prefer to avoid intentionally mixing the two on a given character. But theoretically you could have a high investment in melee defense and a high investment in energy/negative (and fire/cold, although that's not nearly as common and thus not quite so important) typed defense and make it work, but you'd have to think about defense in battle more.

Since I can't see your actual defense numbers right now, I don't know how you're doing for energy/negative defense. But my usual solution to pair with Kinetic Combats is to slot the PBAoE powers (that you have put Oblits into) with 3 Eradications and 3 Cleaving Blows to add significant e/n defense. If you choose the right set pieces you can get very nice enhancement values as well. You'll notice that will stack with the Reactive Armor bonuses too.

Once you have good s/l defense and good e/n defense, you've probably run out of slots, or close to it. :P But that may be good enough. Several of my typed-defense builds have mediocre-to-low fire/cold defense, but still seem to do fine.

Generally I would treat damage bonuses themselves as pure freebies if you happen to get them, and not as a typical goal for slotting, unless I was making a special-purpose max-possible-damage build of some kind.

edit: an alternative is to go all positional -- typically Touch of Death or Mako's in the single-target melee attacks, Sirocco's, Erads, or Oblits in the PBAoEs, and Thunderstrike in the ranged attacks. Gaussian's is also a great positional set. Use this link for choosing positional sets and this one for typed defense sets -- or go here for the whole shebang.

If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

Riius Indigo · 07-26-2012 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sailboat

Well, at work without access to Mid's right now.

If you look closely, you'll see that all sets that give a defense give half that value in the "mirror" sort of defense -- smashing & lethal typed defense sets give half that value in melee, and melee positional defense sets give half that value in smashing & lethal. Ditto for energy & negative <--> ranged, and fire & cold <--> AoE.

Since positional defense plays differently from typed (if you have high melee positional defense, you want to close in, but don't care what sort of damage the enemy meleers are wielding; if you have high fire typed defense you don't care where you stand but like to fight fire-wielding foes, and so on) I prefer to avoid intentionally mixing the two on a given character. But theoretically you could have a high investment in melee defense and a high investment in energy/negative (and fire/cold, although that's not nearly as common and thus not quite so important) typed defense and make it work, but you'd have to think about defense in battle more.

Since I can't see your actual defense numbers right now, I don't know how you're doing for energy/negative defense. But my usual solution to pair with Kinetic Combats is to slot the PBAoE powers (that you have put Oblits into) with 3 Eradications and 3 Cleaving Blows to add significant e/n defense. If you choose the right set pieces you can get very nice enhancement values as well. You'll notice that will stack with the Reactive Armor bonuses too.

Once you have good s/l defense and good e/n defense, you've probably run out of slots, or close to it. :P But that may be good enough. Several of my typed-defense builds have mediocre-to-low fire/cold defense, but still seem to do fine.

Generally I would treat damage bonuses themselves as pure freebies if you happen to get them, and not as a typical goal for slotting, unless I was making a special-purpose max-possible-damage build of some kind.

edit: an alternative is to go all positional -- typically Touch of Death or Mako's in the single-target melee attacks, Sirocco's, Erads, or Oblits in the PBAoEs, and Thunderstrike in the ranged attacks. Gaussian's is also a great positional set. Use this link for choosing positional sets and this one for typed defense sets -- or go here for the whole shebang.

Thank you, this is great information.

My S/L Def values for the last build are 48.9%, so yes they are 3.9% over the 45% soft cap needed. My E/N Def values are 20.2%.

But, at the same time, my Melee Def value is 41.7%, which is less than the 45% but really, really close to it.

Do I need to alter this? I was just playing around with Mids, and was able to switch some slots around so I got S/L Def to 45.2% and Melee Def to 45.5%. Is that overkill??

Does it ever make sense to soft cap both a Typed Def (like S/L) and a Positional Def (like Melee)??

EDIT: Ok, I think I understand. Either I soft cap Ranged/Melee/AoE DEF, or I soft cap S/L and E/N. Is that right? If so, with 4 sets of 4 slotted Reactive armor, 3 sets of 4 slotted Kinetic Combat, 4 sets of 3 slotted Eradication, 3 sets of 3 slotted Oblits, I end up with 45.8% for S/L, and 36.4% for E/N. That's not good enough. What suggestions do you have to bring E/N up to 45% while keeping S/L at 45%?

Or, should I just give up on this build (even though it is at level 50!!), and level up my level 41 TW/EA???

rina_ · 07-27-2012 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riius Indigo

Does it ever make sense to soft cap both a Typed Def (like S/L) and a Positional Def (like Melee)??

EDIT: Ok, I think I understand. Either I soft cap Ranged/Melee/AoE DEF, or I soft cap S/L and E/N. Is that right? If so, with 4 sets of 4 slotted Reactive armor, 3 sets of 4 slotted Kinetic Combat, 4 sets of 3 slotted Eradication, 3 sets of 3 slotted Oblits, I end up with 45.8% for S/L, and 36.4% for E/N. That's not good enough. What suggestions do you have to bring E/N up to 45% while keeping S/L at 45%?

Or, should I just give up on this build (even though it is at level 50!!), and level up my level 41 TW/EA???

It is not always either typed or positional. That is only the case if you're going for soft cap across all of typed(generally with psi as an exception) or positional. For dominators for example it's quite common to soft cap ranged and s/l. What you need to realize is that elec is a resist set so you simply won't be able to cap all defenses that you'd like to cap. There is no need to just give up, ea will be able to get you incarnate soft cap across typed but has no where near the resistance of elec.

So, what should you go for? That's mostly personal preference and depends heavily on what you fight against. s/l is generally a good idea to cap first as there is a lot of it thrown around and you will even cover most energy attacks with it simply because they are mostly combined energy/smashing damage. Going over 45% is probably not of much use for an elec because as soon as one defense debuff goes through you're generally about 7.5% (the most common def debuff value) down, which throws you down to 41.5% when starting at 48.9% and your cascading failure has started as they are now far more likely to land a second debuff and then a subsequent one etc. So going over 45% will help a bit, obviously, but it will generally not really have much of an effect on defense debuffing enemies (which would be the only advantage of going over 45% defense apart from to-hit buffed enemies). If you had some debuff resistance or you could go way way above the cap (like with a parry ability) it would help more, but elec doesn't get any debuff resistance and you aren't taking parry.

So, I wouldn't go over 45% more than a few decimals and rather push some other defense up a bit further. Whether n/e or melee is your choice really.

Riius Indigo · 07-27-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rina_

It is not always either typed or positional. That is only the case if you're going for soft cap across all of typed(generally with psi as an exception) or positional. For dominators for example it's quite common to soft cap ranged and s/l. What you need to realize is that elec is a resist set so you simply won't be able to cap all defenses that you'd like to cap. There is no need to just give up, ea will be able to get you incarnate soft cap across typed but has no where near the resistance of elec.

So, what should you go for? That's mostly personal preference and depends heavily on what you fight against. s/l is generally a good idea to cap first as there is a lot of it thrown around and you will even cover most energy attacks with it simply because they are mostly combined energy/smashing damage. Going over 45% is probably not of much use for an elec because as soon as one defense debuff goes through you're generally about 7.5% (the most common def debuff value) down, which throws you down to 41.5% when starting at 48.9% and your cascading failure has started as they are now far more likely to land a second debuff and then a subsequent one etc. So going over 45% will help a bit, obviously, but it will generally not really have much of an effect on defense debuffing enemies (which would be the only advantage of going over 45% defense apart from to-hit buffed enemies). If you had some debuff resistance or you could go way way above the cap (like with a parry ability) it would help more, but elec doesn't get any debuff resistance and you aren't taking parry.

So, I wouldn't go over 45% more than a few decimals and rather push some other defense up a bit further. Whether n/e or melee is your choice really.

Thank you, rina_

I played my TW/EA last night, and it was much sturdier and fun to play at level 44 than my level 50 TW/ElecA

I think I will get my TW/EA to 50 and slot that one, and put the TW/ElecA on the shelf for a bit.

But who knows? I don't like to leave things alone, so I will probably come back to the TW/ElecA down the road...

Horusaurus · 07-27-2012 10:13 PM

I took a stab and made a few tweaks.

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I'll always be a "Champion" at heart. My server away from home.

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