Dominator or defender - need some advice


crooked

 

Posted

Hey, I'm a rather new player and I wanted to give one of these 2 AT's a go.
I'm a sucker for rp and looking like a true hero/villain. With this in mind I wanted something that looked and felt powerful. This brought me to either Dominators or Defenders, so far I've stablished both look awesome when playing, but Dominators feel stronger for solo play.

The ones I've been most interested in, from most to least interesting:

earth/fire Dom (lava!), storm/energy Defender, rad/rad Defender or ice/ice Dom.

Which one of those are good and rather fast at solo play/leveling?
Thanks in advance!


 

Posted

Having started on defenders and then moving to dominators once they were created, I have to say it's funny you choose between the two. On teams you have very different abilities, but I'll tell you the 'style' especially on teams, can be quite similar. First, you live or die by your primary in both cases, though your secondary, especially solo, plays a major part as well.

Dominators are solid in their primary's control, but also pretty binary. Usually stuff isn't doing something, or is. Very little in-between. A hold hits, the enemy does no attacking until it expires, or if the hold misses. If the enemy resists the control due to rank, they will just keep on attacking. (bosses are harder to hold, elite bosses harder, and archvillains and monsters even moreso)That said, you can target one enemy, control them, then focus damage on what is fighting back.

Defenders are different-they survive on their primary, but the reduce the danger foes pose, not STOP it. On the plus side, this means that it's less binary than a dominator. A debuff that slows attacks will slow anybody's attacks, regardless of rank. (Well, until you get to archvillains, they have special resistances to debuffs) Likewise powers that increase you or your team's strength work regardless of your enemy. But you will only be reducing damage, not stopping it as much.

So dominators are more wholesale, defenders are lesser but far more reliable, as far as primaries go in general. All Dominator primaries involve being aware of your enemies, and controlling them. Some defender primaries are more ally-centric, and require you to watch both enemeis and allies. Every defender primary plays incredibly differently, while dominator primaries are varried but a bit more similar. (usually involving a mix of a ST hold, and AoE hold, then softer controls like stuns, sleeps, fear, etc.)

For dominators, Earth control is a very good starter set. it does less damage, but has a lot more reliable/'fire and forget' controls. As a downside, all the controls it uses that make patches (volcanic gasses, quicksand, earthquake) don't get bonus control when in domination. This isn't a glaring weakness, just something to be aware of. Ice is an odd set, as it has some controls that can conflict with each other, (don't use the immobilize with ice slick) it relies on an endurance-heavy close quarters toggle control (artic air) that is hard to maintain. I usually don't give such point-blank advice, but I will here: Ice/ice doms are best used once you are very familiar with the game and archetype. Do not start with an ice/ice dominator. Learn the ropes, then try it later.

For defenders, the sets you chose are very debuff-centric, with some control as well. Storm is VERY control-centric, but you have to be very canny about how to use its repel and knockback powers to your advantage. Storm has some area powers that are negated if you don't control where you knock things back. You have no way to heal or buff yourself, so you must be canny about using your powers to keep yourself alive solo. Radiation emission is a far easier starter powerset, but has a few oddities to it. It's dependant on debuff toggles that will drop if you get controlled, so always carry break frees. Also, a toggled enemy may run away into a new group, starting trouble, so be ready to turn off their toggles to not start new fights. Also, you want to toggle the enemy that will last longest in a fight, which may not be the toughest one, at least on a team. Scrappers and stalkers love killing bosses.

For secondaries:

On dominators, fiery assault is a go-to for a lot of folks. it is also one of the most straightforward. You damage stuff. (And consume lets you draine energy to damage stuff if you tire) It's good at that, but offers no other tools. With a good primary, you may not need it to do more than kill stuff. Icy assault is far trickier, with good (but average) damage, a power that boost your controls and debuffs (power boost) and a debuff aura. It is slower, and more utility-oriented than straight attacking.

For defender secondaries, energy blast is good. But bear in mind it knocks things back, which is good for solo survival but shares the same issue with storm...you don't want to knock things out of your debuff areas, so you would have to be more aware of how or where you use the powers, and position yourself to use it best. Radiation blast is more straightforward, just doing damage, though it does have a high damage stun and a knockback cone. Radiation blast is more built for continuous fast attacks that are lower damage, than bursts of damage. So radiation blast may feel lighter on damage, just because you use more attacks more often.

Going to playstyle, defender are lower damage, though they do get higher damage if solo. Still, you will have to use your attacks more often, and fights won't be very fast. Dominators have high damage, but it takes a while for all their attacks to become available. Defender start with a lot more survival, and dominators need to wait until they have all their controls and get good slotting in those until they truly start to hit their potential. Defenders' debuffs are strong enough to protect early on, but don't ramp up far past that. Dominators focus on locking down enemies, so that won't change much when on a team. (though it's good to also focus on locking down foes with controls that are hitting allies) Defnders tend to have team powers that you will have to learn to time well when on teams, and your powers, especially toggles, may need to be used differently on teams. Storm summoning must often be far more restrained on a team than when solo, and radiation users might get miffed when the team members kill the target of their debuffs, taking away what weakens an enemy group.

Dominators get 'domination' that when you attack or control, build up a bar, that when full allows you to for a limited time control even bosses in one hit, resist all control, and refill your endurance. It even breaks free from control. It's a good power to have to react to a situation. Defenders get vigilance, which gives bonus damage when solo or on a small team, and gives endurance when team members are low on health.

All in all, here's how I'd rank the picks for a starting character:

  1. Earth/fire dominator: easy, straightforward, just be aware of your enemies and learn your powers.
  2. Rad/rad defender: you can weaken enemies, and help allies and yourself. Toggle management and learning how to survive might be more difficult, but it's very doable, and you'll always be welcome on teams.
  3. Storm/energy defender: powerful debuffs, with controls and damage too. Positioning yourself with your powers will be necessary to work well, especially on teams. You will not just need to learn your powers, but WHEN to use them as some can conflict with each other by scattering foes out of debuffs, into new groups, or away from allies' reach.
  4. Ice/Ice dominator: strange and varied, you'll have quirky and limited control and a mix of debuffs with your damage. Endurance management, leveraging your limited control, and knowing which foes to prioritize will be important.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope that gives you a good idea what to expect.


 

Posted

I really wish I was going to be more helpful to you, but they are SO different...

Dom's tend to be safer, and push more damage, but more fragile if someone goes unmezzed. Defenders usually do less damage, but are generally have better defenses to fall back on if things get out of control.. But, that's not always true. Part of the problems is that defenders vary a LOT from powerset to powerset and in design. But both rad/ and storm/ defs can be vary safe..

Wow, um...

Really... Any of those sound fun, tho that said, I've not played any of those exact combos except rad/rad, which is truly awesome. But all of the otehr 3 sound quite doable.. Only Strom/Energy causes me any pause. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE storm, but if all your attacks do KB, I can see you flinging enemies off of your Freezing Rain zone, which isn't ideal. Yes, there are ways around it, but that combo would be the one I'd be most wary of...

Edit: Wow! What Seldom posted while I was writing mine is a very, very good summary.. Pretty much.. Um, what he said.
2nd Edit: Though, I think in Seldom's 4th paragraph, 4th sentence, he meant to start, "Every defender primary plays incredibly differently, while dominator primaries..."


 

Posted

Thanks for the help! Yeah, I can see how they are very different. Seldom already answered my question though. The reason I wanted to choose between these, was purely because I had 3 or 4 hero concepts I wanted to work on. Was looking for the one that is good for a beginner. Works out perfectly, the one that appealed most to me is the one that Seldom mentioned as the most noob-friendly

Thanks, ill start creating one right away! (seems to take me a couple of days to get them right haha)


 

Posted

Yeah, you really can't go wrong with an Earth/Fire. Enjoy! And welcome to the game.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madadh View Post
...
2nd Edit: Though, I think in Seldom's 4th paragraph, 4th sentence, he meant to start, "Every defender primary plays incredibly differently, while dominator primaries..."
Quite right. My apologies, as I was running my mouth I messed up my comparisons. It has been corrected.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seldom View Post
Quite right. My apologies, as I was running my mouth I messed up my comparisons. It has been corrected.
No need to apologize, I'm sure.. I manage to mangle 99% of what I try to type.. It's partly because of that extremely poor typing skills that I'm always in editing mode... It certainly wasn't intended as a slight, just an observation.

Edit: A simple glance at my post history will show about 4/5s have been edited... For a reason. Because they needed to be...


 

Posted

So in terms of min/maxing on a dominator, how does plant as a primary compare to earth? I made a costume and character that could go both


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by crooked View Post
So in terms of min/maxing on a dominator, how does plant as a primary compare to earth? I made a costume and character that could go both
Plant starts strong, and has more damage than earth. It is also more hands-on, and it's safety comes down almost entirely on one power: seeds of confusion. It's a very good power, but outside of that it has less mitigation.

It's a toss up. Earth control is safer, and takes very little investment to reach its potential. Plant is more limited, but even if it lacks much control aside from seeds, it has creepers to distract and tear into foes. If you have access to invention sets, using those to get +recharge bonuses makes plant take off and become a lot stronger. All of a sudden you'll be able to summon carrion creepers when you wish, seeds will be up when you need it, and a faster ST hold will fill in the gaps of plant's weaker control. Plant also has more direct control via its key controls, so they can get the benefit of domination...which on +recharge IO's can be available far more often.

So to summarize:

Earth: more controls, less budget needed to be very safe. Lots of investment will not help empower your patch control powers as much as you may wish. It also has so much control you won't NEED stuff up as fast.

Plant: More damage, relies VERY heavily on seeds of confusion for safety. Can distract, but not lock down very much. Plant control benefits more from IO investments, as those help the key powers come back faster.


 

Posted

I think I get it
So as a new player with no access to the invention system (for now atleast), it would be a safer bet to go earth. But if I want to kill things faster when solo'ing, plant is still better even for a free player, just less safe?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by crooked View Post
I think I get it
So as a new player with no access to the invention system (for now atleast), it would be a safer bet to go earth. But if I want to kill things faster when solo'ing, plant is still better even for a free player, just less safe?
Yup!


 

Posted

Thanks alot


 

Posted

I've settled on earth, but not too sure about my secondary yet. Is energy any good combined with earth? I've read it's good single target damage but lacks aoe, which could both a good thing or a bad thing with earth I recon.

It would fit my theme better, but I want something aggressive and with good damage.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by crooked View Post
I've settled on earth, but not too sure about my secondary yet. Is energy any good combined with earth? I've read it's good single target damage but lacks aoe, which could both a good thing or a bad thing with earth I recon.

It would fit my theme better, but I want something aggressive and with good damage.
Energy has two main effects: knockback in its blasts, stuns in its melee powers. The stuns would stack with earth control's stalagmites power. Just keep in mind energy has one AoE power-whirling hands, so if you want to use that or stack stuns with your melee powers, you will be playing very close up quite often.

With the pairing you will be incredibly safe, just know that taking down any large groups will take a bit more time. Earth control is great at large group control, so it pairs well with AoE-heavy assault sets because it can get away with all the attention that garners. But if you go more single target, it works okay because you can easily lock down everything while you kill your target, not having to sweat the extra enemies as much. It's all up to your playing preferences. Earth control is a good starter set as its targeted/patch AoE powers let you play both close and ranged, and it has a variety of effects that work well with just about any assault set. Plus a lot of its powers give -defense, so hitting things is easy too.