A New Defender Idea


anonymoose

 

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Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
Agree 100%

I know alot of these threads de-volve into arguments about creating Tank-Mages, but I have played Tankers quite a bit, and considering what my Tanks are able to accomplish with more HPs, more defense, status protection, and higher damage, renders moot the whole Idea that Defenders should not be allowed to defender themselves.
Well I suppose I should add a caveat. A power that is not able to be applied to all 7 other teammates within a reasonable time frame should not be available for the buffer to use on themselves. That said, things like Bubbles, Sonic Shields, and Speed Boost, as examples, should be applicable to the defender while things like Adrenaline Boost and Fortitude should not.


-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight View Post
Well I suppose I should add a caveat. A power that is not able to be applied to all 7 other teammates within a reasonable time frame should not be available for the buffer to use on themselves. That said, things like Bubbles, Sonic Shields, and Speed Boost, as examples, should be applicable to the defender while things like Adrenaline Boost and Fortitude should not.
In their current forms, I certainly agree. This is probably one of the biggest problems standing in the way of fixing Empathy.

With that being said though, Adrenaline Boost is really the same as both RA powers with the recharge thrown in that can be perma on one team-mate. Even though I know they will not fix this, what I would prefer is to make the actual Regen/recovery auras perma with about the same effort it takes to make things like Phantom army perma, and make Adrenaline boost a PBAoE +recharge only power.

Fortitude could easily be changed to a PBAoE buff by simply removing one of its buffs. +Defense would be my call so that it doesn't step on other primary's toes. Instead, it could be +to hit, +damage and +status protect or resist.

These are just Ideas, but nothing like these will ever happen. Like you said, the developers seem to be against the idea of fixing some of the older powersets, but perfectly happy with releasing NEW and OP sets like Time.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

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Originally Posted by Brenodyja View Post
Ok here is a crazy idea...

Vigilance is about being alert and proactive according to its definition, but in its current form it is reactive and not very useful to many primaries correct? How about vigilance is about being "ahead of the game" in terms of damage...

What if vigilance was a power that automatically buffed whatever ally the defender was targetting... you don't turn it on or off, its just auto-fire but only affects friendly targets... This power would somehow buff the target (ie +def, + res, +status prot, + regen?)...

Essentially the idea is that as long as the defender has his eyes on the ally, that person would receive those buffs to be proactive about the damage! This would be great too because almost every set could benefit from keeping a single teammate extra safe and I think thematically fits in well with the "assistance" role that the archetype naturally plays!
Except Traps and TA do not have any reason to target any ally. And while this is great for teammates...how would this help a Defender while solo?


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Originally Posted by Paladiamors View Post
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

 

Posted

In my perfect world where combat mechanics are easier to alter, Defenders would be the only AT who could achieve 100% chance to hit (instead of 95%). They would basically bypass the 95% hard cap and be able to have 100% reliable bounce-heals, debuffs, attacks, and whatever else. They would still do less damage, but be the most reliable about predicting outcomes.

With that achieved, I'd than bump their single target hold or stun powers in the blast sets from Mag 3 to Mag 3.5, and make sure Fire Blast acquires one. They would not have the AoE potential of either Controllers or Dominators but they would have reliability to single shot hold most bosses, assuming they have the accuracy for it.



Now for the change I'm actually willing to push for for real:



I do think self-buffing really should be allowed (for all ATs with these sets). Masterminds can already basically do it. I would consider making it so with two catches:

  • You receive 50% of the base value of the power (unmodified by enhancement, Power Boost, etc).
  • You only receive effects that you can slot for. You therefor do not get +Recharge, +Damage, +Exotic, or Mezz Protection, but you can get +Regen, +Recovery, +Resist, +Defense, +ToHit, or healing.
On Defenders this would basically put Force Field, Cold Domination, and Empathy at getting a 7.5% shield, and Thermal and Sonic getting an extra 10% Resistance. Empathy also picks up an additional 250% Regen and 400% Recovery when it uses AB, but no Recharge boost. Thermal and Empathy picks up some +ToHit, but no +Damage. Time Manipulation gets a small +Regen boost. There are a few other small boosts here and there, but the shield sets ad Empathy come out best.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex View Post
...

Now for the change I'm actually willing to push for for real:



I do think self-buffing really should be allowed (for all ATs with these sets). Masterminds can already basically do it. I would consider making it so with two catches:
  • You receive 50% of the base value of the power (unmodified by enhancement, Power Boost, etc).
  • You only receive effects that you can slot for. You therefor do not get +Recharge, +Damage, +Exotic, or Mezz Protection, but you can get +Regen, +Recovery, +Resist, +Defense, +ToHit, or healing.
On Defenders this would basically put Force Field, Cold Domination, and Empathy at getting a 7.5% shield, and Thermal and Sonic getting an extra 10% Resistance. Empathy also picks up an additional 250% Regen and 400% Recovery when it uses AB, but no Recharge boost. Thermal and Empathy picks up some +ToHit, but no +Damage. Time Manipulation gets a small +Regen boost. There are a few other small boosts here and there, but the shield sets ad Empathy come out best.
Nice idea Tex ! Seems like a pretty fair improvement for the Buffing sets.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

I'd hesitate to add a buff to all buffing sets across the board. Time and Cold are already top-tier compared to say Trick Arrows, which would receive nothing from this move. You're widening a gap that already exists here.

Even Force Fields (a less uber buffing set) doesn't need much help soloing bosses with mez protection, 16% defence, and Force Bolt.

I also like the existence of ally-only buffs. They're easy to avoid if you dont like them - pick a set that focusses on debuffing (eg Rad, Dark) or that applies its best buffs to the user (eg Time, Traps).
They encourage teaming.
They're the price you pay for having massive force-multiplier abilities that are not diminished by AV resistance. Dark or Rad's mitigation falls of quickly against an AV compared to Force Fields or Cold.

I think that we should have a clearly marked option on character creation to make a character who's bottom of the heap for soloability and top of the heap for teaming, which is pretty much what we have with, say a Thermal/Psi.

I like the huge variablity in roles provided by the support powersets, and don't want to see them smoothed out.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Dr Harmony View Post
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I think that we should have a clearly marked option on character creation to make a character who's bottom of the heap for soloability and top of the heap for teaming, which is pretty much what we have with, say a Thermal/Psi.

I like the huge variablity in roles provided by the support powersets, and don't want to see them smoothed out.

Apparently, the Devs feel the same

Judging by their reluctance to change some of the legacy powersets.

For myself, the option to create a different character, using a more "solo-friendly" or "new and improved powerset", is certainly available, but feels like an abandonment of sets that I wanted to play since back in 2004. And what do I do with an Empath that has billions of influence invested, hundreds of hours and memories played. Do I always get to be that "side-kick" or will I ever experience what it is like to be a team unto himself, a "Cosmic Avenger" ?


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
And what do I do with an Empath that has billions of influence invested, hundreds of hours and memories played. Do I always get to be that "side-kick" or will I ever experience what it is like to be a team unto himself, a "Cosmic Avenger" ?
I never thought of Merlin as Arthur's sidekick. Empathy defenders make gods. It stands to reason that those that create gods are at least as powerful as those they create. Sure they lack offensive punch themselves, but they have massive mitigation capabilities.

Heck, I want defenders improved too, but I never feel like a sidekick on any of the ones I play (of course, I find managing buffs to be as fun as managing blasts and managing aggro).


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
Apparently, the Devs feel the same

Judging by their reluctance to change some of the legacy powersets.

For myself, the option to create a different character, using a more "solo-friendly" or "new and improved powerset", is certainly available, but feels like an abandonment of sets that I wanted to play since back in 2004. And what do I do with an Empath that has billions of influence invested, hundreds of hours and memories played. Do I always get to be that "side-kick" or will I ever experience what it is like to be a team unto himself, a "Cosmic Avenger" ?
Why did you want to play these sets?
If a set is clearly marked as "1/10 for soloability, 10/10 for team empowerment" and you don't like playing a support role, why would you want to play it?
How did you get hundreds of hours played before realising that a primarily support role wasnt for you?

Surely there would be a better archetype and set suited for your concept that is more soloable? e.g instead of a Force Field Defender, go Kinetic Melee/Energy Aura, or Gravity/FF Controller. Instead of an Empathy Defender go Radiation Emission, or these days Time.

My point is, someone has to come last in every category, and solo-ability is one of them. The sets that do score low for soloing tend to be rewarded by making the best superteams, providing the best team support, not being knocked down by the Purple Patch, being invaluable to high level teams from low levels, and so on.


I'd agree that some of the older sets could use a tweak, but I dont think a blanket pass on giving the user a portion of ally-only buffs is the way to do it.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Harmony View Post
Why did you want to play these sets?
If a set is clearly marked as "1/10 for soloability, 10/10 for team empowerment" and you don't like playing a support role, why would you want to play it?
How did you get hundreds of hours played before realising that a primarily support role wasnt for you?

Surely there would be a better archetype and set suited for your concept that is more soloable? e.g instead of a Force Field Defender, go Kinetic Melee/Energy Aura, or Gravity/FF Controller. Instead of an Empathy Defender go Radiation Emission, or these days Time.

My point is, someone has to come last in every category, and solo-ability is one of them. The sets that do score low for soloing tend to be rewarded by making the best superteams, providing the best team support, not being knocked down by the Purple Patch, being invaluable to high level teams from low levels, and so on.


I'd agree that some of the older sets could use a tweak, but I dont think a blanket pass on giving the user a portion of ally-only buffs is the way to do it.
There is the rub When playing on a team the preferred "role" that I like is "support". In other MMOs, that has amounted to buffing and healing mainly. I do not generally enjoy the team roles of "tanking", "crowd control" or "DPS". It is no different for me in CoH.
However, I also like to solo. Even to challenge myself to solo on characters that are not generally supposed to be able to solo. I never said that I don't like the support role. In fact, I prefer the support role. Having a preferred team "role" and being a person who also likes to solo are not mutually exclusive in my case.

Hope that helps.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

Posted

Yeah, thats often my preferences too. I know where you'r coming from.
And there are options for exactly what you're describing - team support with good soloing.

Traps, Dark, Radiation, Storm and Time all boost a team's performance significnatly while leaving you a capable solo-er when you choose to do so. My first defender was Dark/Dark way back and I was suprised how good he was solo.

Even with a non-solo friendly Defender you aren't unable to solo, just less capable. I recently ran a Beam Rifle/Pain Corrupter to 50, probably a similar experience to your Empathy/Elec Defender. (Pain Dom being a mediocre team set that doesnt offer much in the way of personal protection).
I'd solo on and off, and it was never amazing but it was doable at +1 or +2. I'd teleport-kite Shock Treatment with her god-mode up because I couldnt hold or stun her reliably.
I even managed to solo Darrin Wade and his Rularuu ally in the SSA where Statesman dies, although I cheated in a pretty extreme way, using the temporary PPD power and stacks of red and purple inspirations mailed to myself.

I've played the other non-franchise superhero MMO, where team buffs are much less potent and everyone's a rugged soloer, and it sucks because no-one ever teams up there. (Although there are other reasons too.)