It's still at the bottom of the dom primaries but it might come up to the level of Ice Control now.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
What's the damage per activation change on Propel? Say for a lvl 1... how much activation time did they shave?
And a buff to singy is just a sweetener, he's already a top tier pet
CoH
Cathodian (50 Rad/Rad)
Archanix (50 Ill/FF)
Dr. Deadface (Current: 40 Rad/MM)
Kind of moot for the dom since you have an assault secondary. You don't really need crush, lift, or propel.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Quote:
This is not entirely true. It should give more ranged damage options, and since some secondaries are light on range, it will allow them to more effectively fill that hole. It will also help those who want to stay purely ranged but don't have the high recharge to cycle through the limited ranged options in some builds. Plus it gives a dual use...those things can still be used in a different order for soft control, or after for good damage.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Kind of moot for the dom since you have an assault secondary. You don't really need crush, lift, or propel.
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Quote:
They cut it's animation from 3.5seconds down to 2.07seconds.|
Originally Posted by Cathodian
What's the damage per activation change on Propel? Say for a lvl 1... how much activation time did they shave?
And a buff to singy is just a sweetener, he's already a top tier pet |
Ultimately it's still fairly low on DPA compared to most of your ranged attacks.
Here's how Propel stacks up compared to Assault set ranged attacks. I also included Lift, since you'd have access to it as well.
Sorted based on DPA, Lowest to Highest: (Edit* replaced Damage Scale with Raw damage, since that's easier for most people to use or comparison)
Power Act Dmg DPA
Stone Spears 2.1 52.83 25.16
Psionic Dart 1.33 44.38 33.37
Hurl Boulder 2.5 86.64 34.66
Thorny Darts 1.33 50.61 38.05
Impale 2.43 103.34 42.53
Flares 1 46.37 46.37
Propel 2.07 103.55 50.02
Lightning Bolt 1.67 86.64 51.88
Mental Blast 1.67 86.64 51.88
Subdue 1.67 86.64 51.88
Charged Bolts 1 52.83 52.83
Power Bolt 1 52.83 52.83
Ice Bolt 1 52.83 52.83
Propel+Impact 2.07 119.39 57.68
Power Blast 1.67 103.55 62.01
Thorn Barrage 2 124.47 62.24
Lift 1.03 69.73 67.70
Power Burst 2 137.36 68.68
Ice Blast 1 69.73 69.73
Power Push 1.1 86.64 78.76
Lift+Impact 1.03 85.58 83.09
Fire Blast 1.2 105.35 87.79
Bitter Ice Blast 1.07 120.45 112.57
Blaze 1 152.42 152.42
UGH that's a jumbled mess, but I dunno how to make it look more presentable. I tried adding spaces so the columns lined up and it removed them from the post.
Long story short, even with the lower cast time Propel's only really decent for Earth, Thorns and Psi; and makes a reasonable third blast for Electric.
Lift will always outperform it be quite a bit though (depending on how you feel about the 2second delay before the damage applies).
@Oathbound & @Oathbound Too
Quote:
I've never found that to be the case for any of my doms.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
This is not entirely true. It should give more ranged damage options, and since some secondaries are light on range, it will allow them to more effectively fill that hole. It will also help those who want to stay purely ranged but don't have the high recharge to cycle through the limited ranged options in some builds. Plus it gives a dual use...those things can still be used in a different order for soft control, or after for good damage.
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Since Doms are slot poor until the mid level 30s I find in low level play that slotting up my single target hold and the first 2 ranged attacks and the first melee attack is usually the best option.
In mid level play picking up and slotting up your primary AoE control and your first AoE are usually best.
By the time I get to the point where I can afford to add in extra single target attacks, I no longer need them.
With the exception of /thorns what my Doms have always wanted was more AoE damage or even the ability to replace the Cone with a non-cone TAoE OR replace the PBAoE with another cone. That way I could actually dispose of all the minions in a mob before my AoE control runs out prior to achieving perma-dom.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
I'm actually looking forward to lift's impact damage. On my Grav/Thorn Dom, the recharge can get high enough that my attack chain becomes distortion -> lift -> distortion -> Lift to avoid the redraw that thorns has, and now that Lift is becoming one of her most effective attacks it becomes a viable chain.
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Worm Hole is much improved. Increased AoE. Aggro-free. A+
Singularity is improved with shorter animation times, but it's no game-changer. B+
Impact mechanic has little to no value for dominators who have assault secondaries. Also, there's rather no point to following your hold with lift/propel normally, so you'll have to change your attack chain just to take advantage. And if you do that, you'll decrease your ability to 'juggle control' enemies that you normally had to do as you didn't have any effective AoE control before your 20s. C-
Propel is faster. But now it's supposed to do splash knockback. Not sure what that's going to do. Useful as part of an attack chain, but now you'll be tossing enemies away from melee if that was your followup. C+
Dimension Shift is still situational (aka skippable). Phasing large groups of enemies isn't the type of control this game was built around. And at level 12 you need a real control to give you some defense in the teens and 20s. It's a long way to 26 and Worm Hole. Even longer til 32 and Singy. Gravity Distortion Field is a decent hold, but on the typical long recharge. Anyway, that leaves you with DS. It's a toggle now and that's better than a click because at least you can turn it off. But the duration was decreased, so by the time you cast it and do a couple things, it's done. Also, you can now phase your allies in the same AoE. Could be good, could be bad. It'll depend on whether you wasted an attack or were unable to buff. I also think it could be a great griefing tool. The real question for me is would I now take this power when I normally skip it? No. F
Overall, I'll give the tweaks a C. Unfortunately, the powers team didn't swing for the fences on their efforts. Instead, they were happy just to get a hit. If nothing had been done, I wouldn't feel any different than I do now: ambivalent.
Please buff Ice Control.
Quote:
QFT. Wormhole changes are nice but I am left with a "who the hell cares" type of feeling because most changes were clearly aimed at Controllers.|
Originally Posted by DarkCurrent
Worm Hole is much improved. Increased AoE. Aggro-free. A+
Singularity is improved with shorter animation times, but it's no game-changer. B+ Impact mechanic has little to no value for dominators who have assault secondaries. Also, there's rather no point to following your hold with lift/propel normally, so you'll have to change your attack chain just to take advantage. And if you do that, you'll decrease your ability to 'juggle control' enemies that you normally had to do as you didn't have any effective AoE control before your 20s. C- Propel is faster. But now it's supposed to do splash knockback. Not sure what that's going to do. Useful as part of an attack chain, but now you'll be tossing enemies away from melee if that was your followup. C+ Dimension Shift is still situational (aka skippable). Phasing large groups of enemies isn't the type of control this game was built around. And at level 12 you need a real control to give you some defense in the teens and 20s. It's a long way to 26 and Worm Hole. Even longer til 32 and Singy. Gravity Distortion Field is a decent hold, but on the typical long recharge. Anyway, that leaves you with DS. It's a toggle now and that's better than a click because at least you can turn it off. But the duration was decreased, so by the time you cast it and do a couple things, it's done. Also, you can now phase your allies in the same AoE. Could be good, could be bad. It'll depend on whether you wasted an attack or were unable to buff. I also think it could be a great griefing tool. The real question for me is would I now take this power when I normally skip it? No. F Overall, I'll give the tweaks a C. Unfortunately, the powers team didn't swing for the fences on their efforts. Instead, they were happy just to get a hit. If nothing had been done, I wouldn't feel any different than I do now: ambivalent. |
Gravity controllers will definitely be better, as Gravity is now as advertised for them a big damage set with slightly underperforming control.
Gravity dominators already had a whole assault set for damage, and I am extremely frustrated by the pointlessness of it all for doms. Why was there no effort to adabpt impact for the assault secondary?
I won't say anyone who currently plays a grav/ dom should reroll it as a controller, but a good 50% of them should. Any assault sets without much AOE (like NRG) should probably be rerolled as controllers now since they still get ST damage as a controller but get a whole (de)buff set as a secondary. Grav/ doms with a lot of aoe in the secondary still on the face of it have a point, however...
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A partial selection from my 50's on Freedom: Ail = Ice/Traps, Luck = Street Justice/Super Reflexes Stalker, Mist = Bane, Pixy = Trick Arrow/Archery, Pure = Gravity/Energy, Smoke = Fire/Fire Dominator
Like what others said, the set is still better for Controllers than Doms. From a dom perspective you depend on your control set for damage mitigation more so than controllers, both because you have an entire secondary for damage, while controllers get additional damage mitigation from their secondary. Any damage you get out of your control set, is icing on the cake. And to a huge extent thats what they did with the set. The one change that would've been great for doms, if they had swapped the place of dimension shift and wormhole.
But with that said, I'm fine with grav, there are other sets out there that function better on one AT that might have them than another. And its not like we don't have a lot of good primaries to choose from, and we are getting Dark Control/Dark Melee.
Thanks. I was rolling with a Grav dom, just going against the grain as I tend to do, and it was so dreadfully terrible I had to shelve it. From what I am seeing nothing is going to change this set for doms short of a mass confuse or a truly unique DS rebuild.
Going to go reroll to Mind or Elec, I enjoy confuse to much to not have it on my Dom.
CoH
Cathodian (50 Rad/Rad)
Archanix (50 Ill/FF)
Dr. Deadface (Current: 40 Rad/MM)
Quote:
the main issue is that the set is the prototype 'late bloomer'. With WH and Singy, you have the same level of control as anyone else. That doesn't make the first 26 levels of play fun or easy, though.|
Originally Posted by Cathodian
Thanks. I was rolling with a Grav dom, just going against the grain as I tend to do, and it was so dreadfully terrible I had to shelve it. From what I am seeing nothing is going to change this set for doms short of a mass confuse or a truly unique DS rebuild.
Going to go reroll to Mind or Elec, I enjoy confuse to much to not have it on my Dom. |
There used to be an assault set like this called 'psionic assault'. Was backend heavy. And that was 'fixed' years ago to better balance it whether you like it or not. I'm not sure why the devs are so scared to do the same to gravity. Switch DS and WH and you have yourself a winner. No need for all the other silly tweaks they're testing.
But for some reason they have a hard-on for AoE phases even though it's the worst kind of control, there are no sets to put in it, vast majority of players skip or revile them, and you need a Masters degree just to understand what it's doing.
Please buff Ice Control.
How would you rate Grav for Dominators considering the upcoming changes?
CoH
Cathodian (50 Rad/Rad)
Archanix (50 Ill/FF)
Dr. Deadface (Current: 40 Rad/MM)