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I used to as well. Now, with only 3 ATS really have a unqiue set among them (Tankers = Ice Melee, Stalkers = Ninjitsu, Trollers = Illusion), and know they're not going to make an exclusive powerset for just one AT when it can go to multiple, not so much.
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Originally Posted by sypher_vendetta
i quite like the idea of certain ATs having exclusive sets, its what makes the AT unique, if all ATs had the same sets, there really wouldnt be any need for any of the ATs and instead if that happens why not create a singular aspect of character creation like the other mmo.
not all sets should get ported, but would be interesting to see how they faired compared to other ATs. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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No because the dev already defined what an Assassin should be like. An assassin should not be using Shield and a Giant Weapon. :P |
Originally Posted by BrandX
Because Titan Weapons and Shields are the only options a Scrapper has?
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Scrapper is not an assassin because they have access to both. That's by their definition. Not mine.
I prefer we define what our theme is.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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This is a weird statement, it's like saying Americans can't be pacifists because all Americans have access to guns. Just as not all Americans possess handguns and many in fact are pacifists, not all scrappers use shields or giant weapons. By and large most people ignore the etymological origin of the word and define assassin as a professional murderer, which would be a large enough definition to include pretty much anyone that kills for money by any means. But even if you take the whole "stealth killer" notion as the defining characteristic of an assassin in terms of COH, then anyone who utilizes stealth tactics in performing a kill/arrest fits the definition. Which pretty much means anyone who has a stealth power of some form. But if you want to narrow it even further to only those with the best forms of stealth you still have a number of other AT that can fit the bill. Illusion controllers can rival the stealth of a stalker, and can remain completely out of their targets awareness for the entirety of the kill, something a stalker cannot do. Heck a good illusion controller can get the enemies to kill themselves without ever being seen if s/he wishes to take the time to do so. Does that mean illusion controllers are better assassins than stalkers?|
Originally Posted by Jibikao
No because the dev already defined what an Assassin should be like. An assassin should not be using Shield and a Giant Weapon. :P
Scrapper is not an assassin because they have access to both. That's by their definition. Not mine. I prefer we define what our theme is. |
The point I'm trying to make here has nothing to do with the actual comparisons between AT, it is that the defining characteristic of an assassin type player, at least in context to COH, is one of play style. And scrappers can easily fit that style of play. No their stealth is not the same, nor can they vanish mid combat, but in all honesty they don't need to. My Ill/storm controller was played as an assassin until the mid levels simply because it was the most efficient way of playing solo. I never had to rest because it was energy efficient, and never had to worry about healing because I never got touched. I came in stealthed, confused two targets, locked down the third, and took them out before ever catching aggro with almost zero loss of xp due to confusion.
I honestly don't know what you read, I haven't seen that post that the devs made. But what it sounds like is that they gave a justification as to why stalkers don't have access to shield and titan weapons. If you wish to enlighten me, please post quote of that post. But what I'm left with is that what you are doing is making stalker the definition of assassin in COH and I don't think that is the case. I think stalker is synonymous with assassin as in all stalkers are assassins, but not the definition of assassin such that all assassins are not stalkers.
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While I dont have the post to quote, it was said due to themetic reasons.|
Originally Posted by ShadowHex
I honestly don't know what you read, I haven't seen that post that the devs made. But what it sounds like is that they gave a justification as to why stalkers don't have access to shield and titan weapons. If you wish to enlighten me, please post quote of that post. But what I'm left with is that what you are doing is making stalker the definition of assassin in COH and I don't think that is the case. I think stalker is synonymous with assassin as in all stalkers are assassins, but not the definition of assassin such that all assassins are not stalkers.
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However, they said they didnt think there'd be such an outcry for a lack of Titan Weapons on Stalkers, and would port it over to Stalkers at some point.
Personally, I just want the huge weapon skins for the Stalkers. I can make it work themetically
And will once it's brought over to Stalkers. I never even thought of the set as it was mechanically, and usually imagined it more as just a HUGE FRIGGIN SWORD! \o/
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Here's my problem with TW on stalkers: Rend armor already has what will obviously be the assassin's strike animation, so stalkers probably won't get to keep rend armor as a regular single target attack. Ouch, man! Although, come to think of it, I wonder if AS will build momentum. If that's the case, who case* what attack the set loses, you'll never have to fire a momentumless attack after the first one of the engagement.
*or cares, dur.
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Yeah...nice when the momentum builder is a 1 second attack. They probably won't let that happen. |
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Here's my problem with TW on stalkers: Rend armor already has what will obviously be the assassin's strike animation, so stalkers probably won't get to keep rend armor as a regular single target attack. Ouch, man! Although, come to think of it, I wonder if AS will build momentum. If that's the case, who case what attack the set loses, you'll never have to fire a momentumless attack after the first one of the engagement.
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BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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You are complaining to the wrong person here. I didn't set up a "theme" restriction for Stalker. The dev did. |
Originally Posted by ShadowHex
The point I'm trying to make here has nothing to do with the actual comparisons between AT, it is that the defining characteristic of an assassin type player, at least in context to COH, is one of play style. And scrappers can easily fit that style of play. No their stealth is not the same, nor can they vanish mid combat, but in all honesty they don't need to. My Ill/storm controller was played as an assassin until the mid levels simply because it was the most efficient way of playing solo. I never had to rest because it was energy efficient, and never had to worry about healing because I never got touched. I came in stealthed, confused two targets, locked down the third, and took them out before ever catching aggro with almost zero loss of xp due to confusion.
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And the theme restriction is not consistent either because apparently Brute can hold a ninja sword like an assassin but a Stalker can't hold a shield or titan weapon.
I can care less how you want to build your character (Illusion with stealth or Scrapper with stealth or whatnot). You can choose stealth and pretend to be an assassin but when the dev say they feel Shield and TW don't fit Stalker's theme, I have a problem with that because theme restriction only seems to apply to Stalker. And since Scrapper gets a pass on that, then Scrapper isn't the REAL "assassin" in Dev's book. Again, I did not make this restriction. The dev did!!
Oh and I saw a Scrapper with titan weapon in BAF last night. That's like the most un-scrapper thing I've seen but hey, it's effective and it's his toon, not mine. I am not going to sit there and complain just because he likes his scrapper holding a big weapon.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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They say #1 reason is that themes don't fit. And since the theme doesn't fit, they don't even try to modify for stalker. It's that simple. |
Originally Posted by ShadowHex
I honestly don't know what you read, I haven't seen that post that the devs made. But what it sounds like is that they gave a justification as to why stalkers don't have access to shield and titan weapons.
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But they certainly have no problem giving TW to scrapper and ninja sword to Brute.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
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A thought I just had. When they say theme, do they mean concept or did they mean game mechanics?
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Originally Posted by Jibikao
They say #1 reason is that themes don't fit. And since the theme doesn't fit, they don't even try to modify for stalker. It's that simple.
But they certainly have no problem giving TW to scrapper and ninja sword to Brute. |
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
I mostly focus on Regen with my Km/Ice Stalker. I love Ice (obviously) with Ice I keep forgetting that I'm not playing a brute! Beautiful! "Hey guys wait here while I heard them over...why are you looking at me like that?"
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Have you gone the whole incarnate route with him? I'm thinkin about going staff/ice when it's out and was wondering what kind of rech you have with him. On paper, it looks sooooo very good.
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Originally Posted by Tater Todd
I mostly focus on Regen with my Km/Ice Stalker. I love Ice (obviously) with Ice I keep forgetting that I'm not playing a brute! Beautiful! "Hey guys wait here while I heard them over...why are you looking at me like that?"
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I'd like to say Electricity Armor is my favorite, but there are also other competitors as well. I -HEAR- ice is good. (Just look at this thread if you don't believe me.) I also like Dark Armor, due to it's ability to basically "reset the battle" with its heal, Dark Regeneration.
The key to any good survivable build is to have a good mix of both Defense and Resistance. You want to aim for 45% defense (I believe this is the softcap) and then you also want the resistance to back yourself up when you do finally get hit.
The reason I like Electricity Armor so much is because of these things here;
- Massive Endurance Drain Resistance: Sappers? No problem. Nothing is going to drain your endurance!
- A fantastic "consume"-like power. Comes back quick enough for me to keep all my 9 toggles on and keep my endurance bar above half. It normally never leaves 75%.
-Fantastic Resistances: Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is above 30% resistance. (Except for toxic. Damn you, toxic.) Obviously energy damage won't phase you, smashing/lethal is 50% with enhanced tough, and my others are a decent 30%-45%. Slap on as much defense as you can through IO's and you've got around 37% defense without incarnates.
The ONLY thing I dislike about my Electricity build is the fact my heal is a little on the slow side when it comes to recharge. It's good, so don't get me wrong. 50% health back and then a massive endurance cost reduction bonus for 10-15 seconds afterwards is beautiful, but sometimes you need more than that within a 30 second time period. That is why I took Rebirth +Regen. My resistances are already good. My defenses are close to cap. I just need heals to keep myself up. Regen is a great bonus to add on top of it.
Built right, Dark Armor with some good defense and tactical endurance management can be pretty scary as well. Overall, both perform really well.
Again, also try Ice. I hear it's also a good one. Mid's Hero Designer is always the best way to go when you're aiming for min/maxing.
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Have you tried WP? Gives up the higher resists, but more healing/HP, and better defenses.|
Originally Posted by Diggaroo
I'd like to say Electricity Armor is my favorite, but there are also other competitors as well. I -HEAR- ice is good. (Just look at this thread if you don't believe me.) I also like Dark Armor, due to it's ability to basically "reset the battle" with its heal, Dark Regeneration.
The key to any good survivable build is to have a good mix of both Defense and Resistance. You want to aim for 45% defense (I believe this is the softcap) and then you also want the resistance to back yourself up when you do finally get hit. The reason I like Electricity Armor so much is because of these things here; - Massive Endurance Drain Resistance: Sappers? No problem. Nothing is going to drain your endurance! - A fantastic "consume"-like power. Comes back quick enough for me to keep all my 9 toggles on and keep my endurance bar above half. It normally never leaves 75%. -Fantastic Resistances: Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING is above 30% resistance. (Except for toxic. Damn you, toxic.) Obviously energy damage won't phase you, smashing/lethal is 50% with enhanced tough, and my others are a decent 30%-45%. Slap on as much defense as you can through IO's and you've got around 37% defense without incarnates. The ONLY thing I dislike about my Electricity build is the fact my heal is a little on the slow side when it comes to recharge. It's good, so don't get me wrong. 50% health back and then a massive endurance cost reduction bonus for 10-15 seconds afterwards is beautiful, but sometimes you need more than that within a 30 second time period. That is why I took Rebirth +Regen. My resistances are already good. My defenses are close to cap. I just need heals to keep myself up. Regen is a great bonus to add on top of it. Built right, Dark Armor with some good defense and tactical endurance management can be pretty scary as well. Overall, both perform really well. Again, also try Ice. I hear it's also a good one. Mid's Hero Designer is always the best way to go when you're aiming for min/maxing. |
But all things considered, I'd think they'd be pretty equal with IO builds.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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I think some people forget that nins mez protection also gives base 22.5% psi resistance stack 2 or 3 times and psi is nothing for nin. Turn that into a toggle and it's nothing but a nerf and I would not be happy. \|
Originally Posted by BrandX
My problem with Ninjitsu is the clickie Mez Protection. This didn't bother me with SR, but with NIN, it bothers me.
Also, once softcapped, I've found the lack of KB protection to be less of a problem. Then putting in 1 or 2 KB Resist IOs tends to really fix all that, but not getting hit tends to keep one from being KBed. My other problem with NIN, is it gives up a higher DDR for a self heal and some (imo) not worth it toys. Love the concept of it, and I think I'll end up enjoying the set much more on a Scrapper, but as it is now, for a Stalker, I prefere WP. I actually find that a bit sad, as I would hope NIN would be the #1 choice for Stalkers, even more so if they plan to keep it Stalker exclusive. Will they keep it exclusive? No idea. They may say NIN is Stalker's Shield. OR they may just proliferate it. *shrug* |
Also Ice armor is the ugliest damn armor in this game I don't care how good it is I aint running around looking like a giant frozen poop sicle lol
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Really, I try not to stack it, as that means less time attacking. Maybe that would be such a problem if the animation for the clickie was shorter.|
Originally Posted by Lucky666
I think some people forget that nins mez protection also gives base 22.5% psi resistance stack 2 or 3 times and psi is nothing for nin. Turn that into a toggle and it's nothing but a nerf and I would not be happy. \
Also Ice armor is the ugliest damn armor in this game I don't care how good it is I aint running around looking like a giant frozen poop sicle lol |
Add in high defense with that resist, and Psi becomes less of a worry. Basically, I wouldn't see it as a nerf.
Though the idea of making the animation faster...that could work too!
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
Scrapper is just the base-line performance for all four melee ATs.
And stop fantasizing that Stalker will get Titan Weapon. I know they said they'll look into it in the future but how far in the future? I don't think it'll come any time soon and if it's not any time soon, then it's not coming. If they want to "break" theme and give Stalker Titan Weapon, I rather have Shield. Shield has good team defense buff and an excellent aoe attack that doesn't break hide. If the dev finally decides to let us choose themes, then I want Shield way more than TW.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection