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Dual Blades has a great Combo! but....It requires you to not use the combos that are built into the game.|
Originally Posted by Expeditor
With the recent Street Fighting and forthcoming Staff Fighting sets we've seen a far more flexible setup for combos that it would be good to see ported back to Dual Blades. The finishers are generally the longer recharging powers anyway, so such a change isn't going to make (most of) the combos available more frequently per se, just less restrictive.
There are a couple of issues that would need to be addressed.. Firstly currently Typhoon's Edge is the finisher for both Sweep and Weaken on Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers. I'd suggest making One Thousand Cuts the finisher for Weaken (as it already is on Stalkers). Secondly, Ablating Strike is the finisher for Sweep on Stalkers, with only a 6 second recharge - it's currently gated by having Build Up as the starting power, tieing it to a 90s recharge power (which I think is going far too far the other way!). On the one hand it would kind of make up for the single-target Attack Vitals where it's an AoE for other ATs, but with the knockdown as well it would be just a teeny tiny bit too good. Consequently I would suggest upping Ablating Strike's recharge to somewhere around the 10 second mark, with damage, endurance cost etc. being scaled up with it - I figure any higher and it would push the set's single target damage up too much, but perhaps the bonus damage from the Sweep effect could be reduced a little to compensate for the slightly faster recharge (over the other ATs' version). So in summary, for Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers you would have the following finishers: Typhoon's Edge -> Sweep Blinding Feint -> Empower Sweeping Strike -> Attack Vitals One Thousand Cuts -> Weaken For Stalkers you would have: Ablating Strike -> Sweep Placate -> Empower Vengeful Slice -> Attack Vitals One Thousand Cuts -> Weaken A random afterthought: thinking about the alternate animation/power gimmick in Titan Weapons, Stalker's Ablating Strike could conceivably play the Typhoon's Edge animation when the sweep effect is activated, or even be outright replaced with Typhoon's Edge, doing higher single target damage when used before the required combo points are built up, but doing lower AoE damage alongside the Sweep effect when used with combo points. Any thoughts, glaring issues etc? |
BF-AS-SS-AS-Repeat
Increased my scrapper by double (estimating) by not using the ones built in. Have fun!
Thorns - Spines/Willpower Scrapper (1366 Badges)
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I'm pretty sure that's only the best when you have the powers' slotting maxxed. IE: Hecatomb set and achilles proc in AS, Armageddon set + Fury of the gladiator proc in SS. Could be wrong as I don't play dual blades as to if it's only the best if it has those IOs, but what makes that chain so good is the 2 -res procs and 2 purple dmg procs.
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Originally Posted by Mafia
Dual Blades has a great Combo! but....It requires you to not use the combos that are built into the game.
BF-AS-SS-AS-Repeat Increased my scrapper by double (estimating) by not using the ones built in. Have fun! |
Cottage rule. The combos are core functionality of DB which should not be touched.
Also, changing Ablating Strike's recharge like that would pretty much destroy my DB/SR build(which pushes AS's recharge just enough to fit into the chain seamlessly).
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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I'm not sure if I like the OP's idea specifically, but swapping which powers are part of which combos doesn't break the cottage rule. Look at the recent EA changes, for example - the set's heal got moved to a completely different power (it was removed from Energy Drain, and given back with Energize replacing Conserve Power). Even a change this dramatic was apparently not a violation of the cottage rule - or, it was, meaning even the devs don't mind breaking the cottage rule sometimes.|
Originally Posted by Auroxis
Cottage rule. The combos are core functionality of DB which should not be touched.
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I kinda think the Brute/Tank/Scrapper combos are OK as-is, or at least not horrible, but the Stalker ones could definitely use a change.
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EA was in desperate need of a buff, and it was a rarely used powerset(this was before the profileration). I don't think it's fair to compare, but that's just my opinion.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
I'm not sure if I like the OP's idea specifically, but swapping which powers are part of which combos doesn't break the cottage rule. Look at the recent EA changes, for example - the set's heal got moved to a completely different power (it was removed from Energy Drain, and given back with Energize replacing Conserve Power). Even a change this dramatic was apparently not a violation of the cottage rule - or, it was, meaning even the devs don't mind breaking the cottage rule sometimes.
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| I kinda think the Brute/Tank/Scrapper combos are OK as-is, or at least not horrible, but the Stalker ones could definitely use a change. |
Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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"This is a rule we always follow except when we have a good reason not to" isn't much of a rule, frankly, except maybe as a rule of thumb.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
EA was in desperate need of a buff, and it was a rarely used powerset(this was before the profileration). I don't think it's fair to compare, but that's just my opinion.
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It's how most rules work in actuality. But just because rules can be bent, doesn't mean they should be broken.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
"This is a rule we always follow except when we have a good reason not to" isn't much of a rule, frankly.
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Mains (Freedom) @Auroxis
Auroxis - Emp/Rad/Power Defender Pylon Video Soloing an AV
Pelvic Thunder - SS/Elec/Mu Brute
Sorajin - Elec/Nin Stalker
Neuropain - Sonic/Mental/Elec Blaster
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"Except when we have a good reason not to", such as one of the Stalker combos being tied to a power on a 90s recharge.
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Originally Posted by Auroxis
It's how most rules work in actuality. But just because rules can be bent, doesn't mean they should be broken.
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Thinking about it, Stalker Sweep could be moved to Sweeping Strike, allowing Ablating Strike to be left alone - having Sweep be reduced to a cone with max 5 targets would be a small price to pay to have it available every ~5s rather than every ~45s as it is currently!
@Hakeswell
Union Ilservian, Evinlea
Defiant Expeditor, Hakeswell
Arc: 70119 Hellion Initiation
I feel like something's missing from the OP - something intended to be said or explained, but not. Possibly from having the combo "points" mentioned. So if I'm a bit off on this, excuse me.
That said, things I'd like to see (and I *think* this is in line with what you said) -
1. More finishing OPTIONS... so the combos aren't just 1-2-3 and too bad if you miss, but you could choose 1-2-(optional) instead, or 1-2-3 (missed) - use 4 instead, have a different combo fire off. Missing's a PITA with these combos.
2. Possibly longer combo timers - it seems they expire when the powers I need finish recharging in the middle of a fight, and I hate feeling like I have to build for recharge. 1-2 seconds longer would be great. And would work with #1 above.
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Nope. I fought Siege as an even-con EB and could not kill him due to his heal. I changed my attack pattern to the one i have now and killed him easily. NO change whats-so-ever to my build. Just changed the combo.
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Originally Posted by DreadShinobi
I'm pretty sure that's only the best when you have the powers' slotting maxxed. IE: Hecatomb set and achilles proc in AS, Armageddon set + Fury of the gladiator proc in SS. Could be wrong as I don't play dual blades as to if it's only the best if it has those IOs, but what makes that chain so good is the 2 -res procs and 2 purple dmg procs.
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Thorns - Spines/Willpower Scrapper (1366 Badges)
I like how the combos are set up, but I actually wish there were more combos. E. G. Headshot(foe +DoT, chance to blind)
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
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It occurs to me that I wasn't very clear about the idea of the non-finishers simply building combo points, similar to Street Justice and Staff Fighting - specifically I was thinking more along the lines of Staff Fighting, where you would need the full number of 'points' built up to get the finishing effect, rather than different effects depending on the number of points as in Street Justice. |
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I feel like something's missing from the OP - something intended to be said or explained, but not. Possibly from having the combo "points" mentioned. So if I'm a bit off on this, excuse me.
That said, things I'd like to see (and I *think* this is in line with what you said) - 1. More finishing OPTIONS... so the combos aren't just 1-2-3 and too bad if you miss, but you could choose 1-2-(optional) instead, or 1-2-3 (missed) - use 4 instead, have a different combo fire off. Missing's a PITA with these combos. 2. Possibly longer combo timers - it seems they expire when the powers I need finish recharging in the middle of a fight, and I hate feeling like I have to build for recharge. 1-2 seconds longer would be great. And would work with #1 above. |
So you would need to use any 2 non-finishers followed by the finisher of your choice - using a finisher with only 1 point wouldn't eliminate it but also wouldn't gain anything from it.
I suppose if the finishers added a point if you haven't already built up enough points to get a finishing effect (I gather this is how Staff Fighting's system works) then that would open the door to adding different finishing effects to other powers - a damage and resistance debuff similar to the 'Weaken' effects defence and to-hit debuff for example.
Given that half of the powers in Dual Blades have no secondary effect of their own (Nimble Slash, Power Slice, Typhoon's Edge and Sweeping Strike specifically, where similar powers in Street Justice and Staff Fighting have secondary effects outside of their combo systems) I just think making the combo system more flexible, especially for Stalkers who have a really sucky setup, would go a long way to improving this set.
@Hakeswell
Union Ilservian, Evinlea
Defiant Expeditor, Hakeswell
Arc: 70119 Hellion Initiation
With the recent Street Fighting and forthcoming Staff Fighting sets we've seen a far more flexible setup for combos that it would be good to see ported back to Dual Blades. The finishers are generally the longer recharging powers anyway, so such a change isn't going to make (most of) the combos available more frequently per se, just less restrictive.
There are a couple of issues that would need to be addressed..
Firstly currently Typhoon's Edge is the finisher for both Sweep and Weaken on Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers. I'd suggest making One Thousand Cuts the finisher for Weaken (as it already is on Stalkers).
Secondly, Ablating Strike is the finisher for Sweep on Stalkers, with only a 6 second recharge - it's currently gated by having Build Up as the starting power, tieing it to a 90s recharge power (which I think is going far too far the other way!). On the one hand it would kind of make up for the single-target Attack Vitals where it's an AoE for other ATs, but with the knockdown as well it would be just a teeny tiny bit too good. Consequently I would suggest upping Ablating Strike's recharge to somewhere around the 10 second mark, with damage, endurance cost etc. being scaled up with it - I figure any higher and it would push the set's single target damage up too much, but perhaps the bonus damage from the Sweep effect could be reduced a little to compensate for the slightly faster recharge (over the other ATs' version).
So in summary, for Scrappers, Brutes and Tankers you would have the following finishers:
Typhoon's Edge -> Sweep
Blinding Feint -> Empower
Sweeping Strike -> Attack Vitals
One Thousand Cuts -> Weaken
For Stalkers you would have:
Ablating Strike -> Sweep
Placate -> Empower
Vengeful Slice -> Attack Vitals
One Thousand Cuts -> Weaken
A random afterthought: thinking about the alternate animation/power gimmick in Titan Weapons, Stalker's Ablating Strike could conceivably play the Typhoon's Edge animation when the sweep effect is activated, or even be outright replaced with Typhoon's Edge, doing higher single target damage when used before the required combo points are built up, but doing lower AoE damage alongside the Sweep effect when used with combo points.
Any thoughts, glaring issues etc?
@Hakeswell
Union Ilservian, Evinlea
Defiant Expeditor, Hakeswell
Arc: 70119 Hellion Initiation