Controllers are useless on trials
When you go into trials for the first time like it seems you have, everything is wayyy above your level (+4 I believe) and this is the reason you do not feel useful as you normally would on an iTrial. Once you get the Alpha slotted up and get the other incarnate slots unlocked it will all come together.
I have 3 trollers at T4 and they all seem to do great on trials.
Trollers are very good on trials. I'll agree that the BAF is a special case but trollers aren't just about holds and have many other abilities.
I've a number of trollers that regularly do iTrials - and all of them contribute in a significant way - however it did take a level shift to make a big impact! Once you get there you'll find things get a lot easier and you can get your first with the Alpha slot by running Apex & Tin Mage II
![](http://repeat-offenders.net/savecoh/SaveCOH_Blue_leaderboard.jpg)
Thelonious Monk
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Don't give up King Namek! Controllers are just as good as anything else on trials! Don't worry if the first couple of times you feel a bit .. overwhelmed! As others have stated, everything is a +4 until you get those powers slotted up! Also, on that BAF, half of the escaping prisoners cannot be held, slowed, knocked, anything! but everything takes damage!
Keep those storm clouds out (and tornado while on the prisoners part) and spam freezing rain like mad! Also, Steamy mist is useful for you and everyone around you as some of those escaping prisoners will confuse you or your team mates! Steamy mist offers good protection!
I quite enjoy running trials. Although I do agree with others that it can take too long to get all your incarnate goodies (still didn't stop me though ), just being in those huge groups, laying waste to stuff, joking with your league mates, it can be a lot of fun
Combat Kangaroos, Justice Server. First 50's
Jirra Roo Plant/Storm/Stone/Musculature Controller
Combat Kangaroo Rifle/Energy/Mace/Spiritual Blaster
Kung Fu Kangaroo Martial Arts/Reflexes/Body/Spiritual Scrapper
Tribal Arc Shield/Elec/Mu/Spiritual Tanker
Something I really like about the Itrials is they make powers that were once useless become useful.
Take Gale, for instance. All it does is knockback enemies, and other than a second of damage mitigation there is really no benefit to fighting enemies slightly to the left of where they spawned. But during Keyes I discovered that Gale is one of the best powers to move Warworks away from Terminals. So now my favorite thing to do on Keyes while I'm on my /Storm troller is fly up to the top floor of the reactor, and then use Gale and Hurricane to throw the enemies off the top floor. It's hilarious, and it is more effective than if a tanker tried to taunt the WW away.
The roles you can play as a troller or a defender on an Itrial are so much more diverse than what you do as a troller or defender regularly. These roles are out-of-the-box enough that it goes over a lot of player's heads. Doing things like laying Caltrops along the way to Marauder so enemies don't chase you there, holding the Mother Mayhem clones in phase one so players can rez safely, throwing down a hazard patch in the middle of the TPN terminal room to make it safer for players to pull IDF there, running Tactics and Steamy Mist so the Avatar's confuse fades away twice as fast, using -perception powers on Warworks so players can grab glowies without getting aggroed, Immobilizing Voids so they don't run away, using mass confuse on 9CUs so they all turn on each other and blow themselves to bits, the list can go on and on.
Sure, other ATs have more damage. But, with a tier 3 lore pet you can probably dish out enough damage to solo an AV, and judgements let you plow through enemy groups like a crashless blaster. No, what the controller brings isn't more muscle, but a toolbox that lets a player handle the same situation in strange and unusual ways, supporting the team in a manner that some brute would never think to do.
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
You don't see trollers on I trials? I say you just don't really run I trials because trollers are on them ALL the time.
In reference to your complaint about being a level 50 no t3 or t4 alpha slotted which makes you -4 to the enemy. Once you get at least t3 in the +1 level shifters like Alpha, Lore and Destiny, you will be more effective with holds.
By the time you are +3 depending on your powerset, you will be able to lock down a door if not two.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
As mentioned, BAF is a special case. In most other contests, the ability to neutralize large spawns of critters is a godsend.
Even in the BAF, control is useful on the minion escapees. You won't be able to do anything to LTs, but no one can. Focus on controlling the minions - people with high DPS or at least high burst damage need to deal with the LTs.
If you have no level shifts, well, anyone with no level shifts contributes a lot less on any iTrial, even the two "basic" trials (BAF and Lambda). Getting to +1 helps noticably. Getting to +2 helps a lot. Getting to +3 makes things seem easy.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
So, I decided to bring my 50 Earth/Storm controller out of retirement and get him powered up. I rarely saw controllers on trials and I thought he would be an asset. Particularly on BAF. But, guess what? He can't hold anybody! Maybe minions for a few seconds, but it's just miss miss miss, on lieutenants and bosses.
|
Also, on that BAF, half of the escaping prisoners cannot be held, slowed, knocked, anything!
|
Paragonwiki article on BAF
I refer you to "Phase 3:"
Players should be aware that Hardened Commandos are immune to all forms of mezzing or slowing them down. |
There are trials with things that cut right through the defenses or resistances of Tankers too. Controllers are not being singled out in having to face weird "exception to the rule" challenges on trials.
![](http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/066/016/keep-calm-and-carry-on-original.jpg)
If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
And lets stop saying that BAF is a special case. Yes, the Lt. escapees can't be controlled. But the adds in the other phases can be. And if you're going for the "Keep Em Seperated" badge controllers are great for keeping the adds near their spawn point.
_________
@Inquisitor
And lets stop saying that BAF is a special case. Yes, the Lt. escapees can't be controlled. But the adds in the other phases can be. And if you're going for the "Keep Em Seperated" badge controllers are great for keeping the adds near their spawn point.
|
It's fair to clarify that doesn't mean the whole trial contains uncontrollable critters, but the trial remains a special case.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
You need to get a level shift or two so it won't feel so overwhelming.
Your powersets should be great on trials. Hurricane can pin the escapees in their pens, you have a fair amount of -Defense on the mobs and AVs and if you join a Keyes trial Hurricane can clear the guards at the terminals so you can access them quicker.
It always seems overwhelming when you're on a 50 in those trials. You'll faceplant a lot and feel frustrated but even Alpha at Tier 3 can help your survivability a fair bit.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
If only the process was either fun or didn't take so darn long. I got burnt out on the trials just getting one character up to a tier 3 Alpha. The worst part is that what I really wanted were the costume pieces, and with all that effort I barely got enough to buy a couple of them.
|
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
My first incarnate was my grav/kin controller (the one w/o SB, IR, and ID, by the way). She had Alpha unlocked to Tier 2, I think, on her first BAF. She actually did pretty well vs the escapees when I planted her DIRECTLY in front of a door along with her Singularity, along with one scrapper and one blaster.
Sure, I couldn't keep the hardened commandos down, but throwing Fulcrum Shift on the mobs as they came out meant that the scrapper and blaster were crucifying anything that was left. Then I auto-keyed Power Boost and was spamming Energy Torrent when I wasn't spamming the mass immobilize and mass hold.
We had no escapees from my door. I was so proud.
Figure out your strengths - tactics will make themselves known to you.
Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite
THE COURSE OF SUPERHERO ROMANCE CONTINUES!
Book I: A Tale of Nerd Flirting! ~*~ Book II: Courtship and Crime Fighting - Chap Nine live!
MA Arcs - 3430: Hell Hath No Fury / 3515: Positron Gets Some / 6600: Dyne of the Times / 351572: For All the Wrong Reasons
378944: Too Clever by Half / 459581: Kill or Cure / 551680: Clerical Errors (NEW!)
I just got a Grav/FF controller to 50 this weekend and took him into a BAF. It rocked. I admit I have a LOT of accuracy and recharge boosts, but the affair went very smoothly during the prisoner phase.
I and the sing immobed the minions while DPS took out the rest. With containment and Fireball, and Repulsion Bomb (which does not get containment bonuses...grr) I actually did okay with helping.
Performance is just going to improve as I add Incarnate bonuses. At +3 I should be able to mow down minion groups and gouge large hp chunks out of the survivors.
I have not done a Lambda yet. I've built my favorite trial characters so that I could survive alone (mostly) in the acids and grenades section, but I don't know if it will be possible even for a +3 controller. Maybe I can find a way to use Force Dome.
When you go into trials for the first time like it seems you have, everything is wayyy above your level (+4 I believe) and this is the reason you do not feel useful as you normally would on an iTrial. Once you get the Alpha slotted up and get the other incarnate slots unlocked it will all come together.
I have 3 trollers at T4 and they all seem to do great on trials. |
But, guess what? He can't hold anybody! Maybe minions for a few seconds, but it's just miss miss miss, on lieutenants and bosses. Forget AVs. Is this the reason I so rarely see incarnate controllers? Sure, his pet is fine for damage, but the majority of his debuffs and holds are useless.
|
I also have a couple of defenders who are all T3/T4. You don't have to be a tank/scrapper/brute to survive and be useful in the iTrials.
Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
..but throwing Fulcrum Shift on the mobs as they came out...
|
What does that say about the primary powers?
Okay, so that's not completely true. Controllers are useful against the regular spawns in trials that have them. They're probably most useful in Underground due to the sheer length and number of enemies.
However, a significant amount of time in all iTrials is spent fighting AVs that are completely immune to all control effects -- i.e. your entire primary powerset. They're also immune to recharge debuffs, which is unfair to Ice-based powersets, but that's another matter.
BAF is worse due to one of the phases having Lieutenants that are highly resistant to controls. Contrary to popular belief, they're not immune, and can be overcome if you manage to stack a mag 50 hold or stun on them. However, it's much easier to just kill them, and BAF is so easy in general that it hardly matters. So again, use your secondary!
BAF also has adds that ambush you during the AV fights. You might think that Controllers would be useful there, except that the adds are designed to get a stacking buff. If you just control them and don't kill them, they'll eventually break free and overwhelm everyone.
It's bad enough that in Issue 22, Controllers are being given automatic Containment on trial bosses. So yay, more damage, but really it's just a band aid for the fact that the devs have absolutely no idea how to balance Controllers in endgame content.
Dominators, you're in the same boat. You have attacks, and damage is the best thing you have to offer in an Incarnate trial, so the message is clear: use your secondary.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
Holy flawed generalization Batman!!!
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
If only the process was either fun or didn't take so darn long. I got burnt out on the trials just getting one character up to a tier 3 Alpha. The worst part is that what I really wanted were the costume pieces, and with all that effort I barely got enough to buy a couple of them.
|
Played a fresh 50 with alpha slot unlocked after the story arc this weekend through different itrails.
Needed 7h to unlock all slots and finish alpha with Tier 3; Judgement Tier 1; Interface Tier 2; Lore Tier 3; Destiny Tier 3
Progress was
Speed Lam 19% exp ; uncommon drop
Speed Lam 41% ; uncommon
BAF 26% ; rare+2uncommon
BAF 47% ; common
Keys 67% & 60% ; uncommon
BAF 90% ; common
Underground ; 49%exp tier2 & 29% tier 2; failed final boss
BAF 71% ; common
Keys 81% & 40% ; rare
Lam (normal) 63% ; failed (don't ask why :P )
BAF 99% ; uncommon (paid $ for the last 1%)
Keys finish & 77%; uncommon
TPN finish & finish ; rare + uncommon
First run as a brand new lvl 53 BAF yielded a very rare
Funny I don't know why but I like the new Keys. =)
Oh and to the OP Controllers and Dominators are awesome.
I have a earth/storm too, park youself at a choke point and do your magic thing
and as others said the world is a bit different after you got your first lvl shift.....
![Wink](images/smilies/wink.gif)
This, along with all the quotes above about using Storm powers, just goes to show how much controllers get shafted on Incarnate trials. Think about it, the answer to "What do I do in trials?" is consistently "Use your secondary".
What does that say about the primary powers? Okay, so that's not completely true. Controllers are useful against the regular spawns in trials that have them. They're probably most useful in Underground due to the sheer length and number of enemies. However, a significant amount of time in all iTrials is spent fighting AVs that are completely immune to all control effects -- i.e. your entire primary powerset. They're also immune to recharge debuffs, which is unfair to Ice-based powersets, but that's another matter. BAF is worse due to one of the phases having Lieutenants that are highly resistant to controls. Contrary to popular belief, they're not immune, and can be overcome if you manage to stack a mag 50 hold or stun on them. However, it's much easier to just kill them, and BAF is so easy in general that it hardly matters. So again, use your secondary! BAF also has adds that ambush you during the AV fights. You might think that Controllers would be useful there, except that the adds are designed to get a stacking buff. If you just control them and don't kill them, they'll eventually break free and overwhelm everyone. It's bad enough that in Issue 22, Controllers are being given automatic Containment on trial bosses. So yay, more damage, but really it's just a band aid for the fact that the devs have absolutely no idea how to balance Controllers in endgame content. Dominators, you're in the same boat. You have attacks, and damage is the best thing you have to offer in an Incarnate trial, so the message is clear: use your secondary. |
The truth be told, when it comes to itrials, there are times when the Tanker can't be a meat shield, when a Scrapper can't go into scrapperlock, and when a Blaster's AoE is just about the worse thing you want to do. In general, there will come a time when (pick your AT) should not use at least something in their primary "toolbox".
So yeah, I've accepted that you are going to have to use secondaries, available incarnate powers, and team buffs/debuffs to up your chances for success in itrials. If you consider that a bad thing then itrials probably are not the thing for you.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom (or freem?) fighter; just as one man's exploit is another man's feature.
Take Gale, for instance. All it does is knockback enemies, and other than a second of damage mitigation there is really no benefit to fighting enemies slightly to the left of where they spawned. But during Keyes I discovered that Gale is one of the best powers to move Warworks away from Terminals. So now my favorite thing to do on Keyes while I'm on my /Storm troller is fly up to the top floor of the reactor, and then use Gale and Hurricane to throw the enemies off the top floor. It's hilarious, and it is more effective than if a tanker tried to taunt the WW away.
|
If my character was on a Keyes with your character and saw this, she'd give your character a virtual kiss on the cheek.
Controller Primaries Seem to Get the Shaft
I sympathize with this issue because I want Controllers to feel they are useful during the iTrials so they will run them. There are phases in some trials where having control as a primary is critical (MoM comes immediately to mind). But even if a Controller is spending more time using their secondary, that buffing/debuffing secondary is so bloody useful that I would hate to see it dismissed or lamented by anyone, least of all Controllers (and Doms) themselves!
NOR-RAD - 50 Rad/Rad/Elec Defender - Nikki Stryker - 50 DM/SR/Weap Scrapper - Iron Marauder - 50 Eng/Eng/Pow Blaster
Lion of Might - 50 SS/Inv/Eng Tanker - Darling Nikkee - 50 (+3) StJ/WP/Eng Brute - Ice Giant Kurg - 36 Ice/Storm Controller
They ARE useful. They fill a slot of the team. Then stand about and receive rewards. Win.
/Felt this way with my 'troller, but that's ok, sometimes you just have to stand around.
//Love the Gale trick, that's total awesomesauce right there.
August 31, 2012. A Day that will Live in Infamy. Or Information. Possibly Influence. Well, Inf, anyway. Thank you, Paragon Studios, for what you did, and the enjoyment and camaraderie you brought.
This is houtex, aka Mike, signing off the forums. G'night all. - 10/26/2012
Well... perhaps I was premature about that whole 'signing off' thing... - 11-9-2012
So, I decided to bring my 50 Earth/Storm controller out of retirement and get him powered up. I rarely saw controllers on trials and I thought he would be an asset. Particularly on BAF. But, guess what? He can't hold anybody! Maybe minions for a few seconds, but it's just miss miss miss, on lieutenants and bosses. Forget AVs. Is this the reason I so rarely see incarnate controllers? Sure, his pet is fine for damage, but the majority of his debuffs and holds are useless.