Radiation Melee and Armor

I was going to let Sam speak for himself, since he usually does so pretty well, but if you're going to try to pull the "it's just you" card, I agree with him completely. A crash with an unresistable hold is horrible. Horrible, horrible, horrible. That's WORSE than the crashes on Unstoppable/Power Surge, which are already so bad that many players feel they are never worth using or even taking. A long activation or a period of doing nothing on a power that by definition is used when you're in trouble makes it even worse. You can't afford to use it when you need it, and when it wears off you die anyway. No, a knockback will not stop you from dying, because many enemies cannot be knocked (like AVs), or get back up very quickly (like Tarantulas), or will be out of range of the knockback (like anything that prefers ranged attacks), or the knockback might just miss.

When you suggest a power unlike any other power in the game, it's not inherently bad, but you need to consider if there is a reason why no other power does that.

Ok now there is 2 :P Thematic reason is all i have to say. And just like any of the tier 9s too. I never take any tier 9s that have a huge crash but that's because the buff you get from then are uber. If the buff wasn't so strong then the crash wouldn't be as strong. The bigger the buff the bigger the crash. To me if you rely on the tier 9 to survive against something then there is something wrong. If your in trouble and you know your going to die then fire it earlier then normal. Since you go in knowing its not instantaneous then be precognitive on when to fire it. Can't give it Unstoppable buff and not have a crash. That defies what exists in game. Again the Hold can be removed but i like the thowing up hold like [Elixir of Life]'s side effect at the end. OK maybe have no hold but you have to do the throwing up animation for 5 seconds that way you keep your stupid toggle buffs on. Ugh. Complain complain complain. Give me a better power that's unique and not so boring like the current ones. Create something new like they have done with Momentum, Focus, Combo Level, etc. Give me something fresh that is not Over powered and not Under powered.

Reminder!!!!!! It's an idea not a power set in the making.

But that's not what I said. Generating energy by attacking should generate a chain reaction, thus create more power overall. NOT generating energy by attacking should leave you cold and inactive.

Now power takes away your levels when you use it, too, but that doesn't make it a good idea. "Unique" is not in itself a positive unless the what you're suggesting is good as well as unique. Having me held is just needlessly punitive, and I would very much prefer a full endurance crash to that. I'm not against the knockback, mind you. I don't even dislike the basic design of the power. I'm just hugely against the hold. In general, I have very little tolerance towards "punishment" mechanics, but at least a crash a controllable kind of punishment. It doesn't prevent me fromrecovering from it. The way you're designing your hold, you want me to get held no matter what, and that's just not something I will accept.

Once upon a time, Blaster nukes stunned you after you used them, and for five seconds, no less. Pretty much nobody liked this, as it got people killed repeatedly. You know how Nova has a ton of knockback on it and huge damage, to boot? Well, that still got Blasters killed when it stunned them. Hell, Nova has killed me even without the stun. Knockback isn't enough of a solution against an unresistable hold, especially since an unresistable hold suppresses your protection toggles.

No amount of smilies is going to make your insulting insinuations any less insulting. It'll just turn you into Golden Girl. I'm not looking for the "perfect" power. I'm more than happy with Unstoppable, and I even make wide use of Elude. I want a T9 power that doesn't suck to use. And getting self-held sucks. I didn't take my status protection so I could stun myself. If you're so dead-set on being "unique," why not just put Self Destruct in a powerset? You do a lot of damage, but it kills you. No powerset power outright kills you, so that's unique, right?

That "crap" works. I'm much more interested in something that actually plays, as opposed to something that's "unique" and crap to play. I've had my fill with "unique" powersets that pay for their uniqueness by being garbage. I'm definitely not interested in another Dual Pistols, I can tell you that much. "Unique" doesn't sell it to me. Besides, "a hold" is not unique. Getting self-held predates the game's launch date. If you want something that's actually unique, try using one of the newer systems, such as stat percentaged changing based on power use, the combo mechanic or swapping entire powers based on status tags.

Oh, so it's way too much work for you to do stats, but when I don't offer suggestions on how to improve the set, I'm somehow at fault. There is no Internet protocol that I'm aware of that dictates I must suggest improvements in order to comment on an idea. You suggested it, you improve it. Or don't, it's your call. We're all discussing here, but I had the impression that we were discussing your idea, not my brain. If you want to discuss my brain, you're only going to derail your own thread.

I'm giving you my impressions - you're trying too hard to be "unique" and your set suffers for it. I said "a bit more solid" and you interpreted this as "the best set in the game." Me thinks thou dost protest too much. In fact, I come at you with concerns, and you dismiss my feeback as "Oh, you just want the perfect power." Great way to ignore all of it by engaging in character assassination, dude. That's called a straw man, for your reference. If you want to discuss your own idea, I'd stick to discussing your own idea, instead of playing armchair psychiatrist.

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If you're stubborn about removing the hold from your T9, then we have nothing else to discuss. The rest of the set seems decent, but I refuse to accept a T9 power with a hold in it, especially when it can be done in a better way without making it overpowered and without just making it an Overload clone. That's up to you if you want to do it, but please don't tell me what I want in the process.

*edit*
Oh, you're right, it is there. My brain skipped the --> sign and I read 5% resistance. My bad, I apologise for misreading your stats. With 50% resistance and a a 20% hit points buff, this sounds like a pretty solid T9. That's probably better than Unstoppable. I still don't agree it merits a hold, however.

*edit*
So make the buff weaker. Slash the resistance by half (that usually caps anyway), keep the hit points buff and take out the hold. Or, if we want to be technical, the "crash" is only part of the price you pay for the power. The 10 seconds of sitting on your hands is probably an even bigger price to pay than the crash and the hold. Even if you reduce the timer, it's STILL a huge price to pay, and more than enough to make up for a perceived too much strength, ESPECIALLY since it has the potential to slash that "strong" buff into nothingness.

Here's a hypothetical question for you. What crash would a T9 God Mode power which made you untouchable for three minutes entail? Death, maybe? Experience loss? Level loss?

Considering that's precisely the point of T9 powers, I question your judgement. What, if not to survive when your regular powers are not enough, DO you use a T9 God Mode? To be slightly more unkillable against enemies that can't kill you anyway? The entire design objective behind a T9 power like Unstoppable and Overload is to give you a window of nearly guaranteed survival in which to kill whatever it is that's threatening you, with the gamble that if you're not done in that time window, you're in deep trouble.

In fact, most of the times when I've used Unstoppable lately is either to outlast an elite boss whom I can't outdamage, like Marauder using his own Unstoppable, or to survive when I accidentally aggro four spawns on my head because Nemesis Snipers suck in large rooms. If you're designing a God Mode power from the perspective of someone who doesn't take God Mode powers and doesn't use them as designed, then perhaps you shouldn't be designing a T9 God Mode power. If you want to be unique, why not make your T9 a self-resurrect. Sure, it's not literally unique, but it's so rare and present in powersets designed so long ago, it might as well be.

What. "Be precognitive." Are you seriously suggesting that we need psychic powers to use your suggested power? Because most of the time when I realise I'm in trouble, I realise this because I see my hit points plummeting faster than I can recover it and my enemies don't look like they'll be going down any time soon. When I realise I'm in trouble, I'm already in trouble, or will be very soon. I apologise for not possessing the ability of precognition, but does it not strike you as backwards design when you create what is ostensibly an "emergency" power such that it doesn't work in an emergency?

Also, if I know I'm in trouble and I'm going to die, I'm not going to stay and die. I'm going to run away, if at all possible. That is, unless I have a T9 Self Rez power with which to return to the battle and hurt my enemies, but assuming I don't. Assuming I have a T9 God Mode, I'm either going to use that if I can, or if I CAN'T, I'll take off running.

The smart way to manage the crash on a T9 God Mode power is to save it until the latest possible moment, so you can ensure it lasts past the end of battle. You can't do this with a power that has a setup time. Yet not only do you seem to completely ignore how much that setup time kneecaps your power, you feel it has to have by far the worst crash of any T9 on top of it. You shouldn't need me to fix it for you.

Seems like you're the one complaining. Surprise! You suggest a new powerset and it's a lot of work. What did you expect? That people would be beholden to you and make your powerset for you? Maybe if you asked for help instead of browbeating people into it, and acting like we owe you. Your attitude is very rotten, Mafia, and it's making me hugely disinclined to be productive. If you try to work WITH people instead of shouting them down, then maybe you'd get more cooperation.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Probably. A Nuke still has a to-hit check, then it has a 3.0 scale damage component guaranteed, which is just below Total Focus level, then a 1.5 scale damage proc at 75% chance to occur, then another 1.5 damage proc at 50% damage to occur. If you don't use Aim and Build Up, if you miss or if your damage procs don't trigger, you don't kill an enemy. I've had many instances where I've failed to kill a significant number of enemies, specifically enemies who could hold me, sap me or straight up instakill me. With Nove, I've had many instances I'll nuke, miss five of the 12 guys I was trying to nuke, get immobilized and killed while I scramble to down inspirations.

Well, then don't design a power that's like Unstoppable or Elude. There are a ton of T9 power frameworks you could have used. You could have used a mini God Mode like One With the Shield or Strength of Will, you could have used a self rez T9 like Rise of the Phoenix or Soul Transfer, or you could have gone with a "trutling" power like Hybernate. If you want something "unique," I'd suggest starting off a less common baseline, instead of taking arguably the most conventional power design and trying to twist it.

It just comes off like you're designing a power you hate.

I wish we had Duel Pistols, myself. As for Dual Pistols, the set is simply weak, and it's weak by design. As a direct result of its gimmick - Swap Ammo - the set's power is valued to be much greater than what it is, so the set is counter-balanced to be weaker to compensate. Dual Pistols pays a heavy price for having Swap Ammo, but Swap Ammo does not contribute nearly enough to the set to compensate for this price. If the set had a conventional Build Up mechanic, it might be slightly less "interesting," but its stats would have been significantly higher.

None of that would have saved the glacial animation times, but that's a separate issue.

It's your idea. You sort it out. If you're going to post on a public forum and solicit feedback, learn to deal with it. Look at any of the official Feedback threads on any of the recent Betas. Much of the feedback is "This, this, this and this are broken. Fix them." If you don't consider having questionable design decisions pointed out for your consideration to be constructive, then you simply don't know how to handle feedback.

I'm not trying to yank control of your suggestion out of your hands, Mafia. You don't have to change things just because I said so. I'm simply saying that the rest of your set feels very solid, and the one thing which sticks out as FAR too esoteric is the T9 power. If you want it to be unique, that's fine, but if you really want it to be unique, then don't shoot for a God Mode power. Those deal with stats so high they're all effectively the same power anyway.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

That gave me an idea ill add it in maybe tomorrow. Been busy.

The damage scale should be increased yes agreed. Soul Drain, Dark Pit, Hail of Bullets, Bullet Rain. I love that combo. But DP on its own it weaker.


Possibly. Also the Beta feedback is sets that have actually been made and on beta to test. This is kinda before all of that (if it happens) where tweaks can be made before it's created. I suggest it. If you like it then you like. If you don't then explain why and give me your suggestions to make it different. You gave me an idea for a better Tier 9. Check back later to see if i changed it. Ill change it when i get time.

I've loved these last posts and I'm even more ecstatic for the changes ill do.

I think it would look kinda interesting but it's just an example. They can always add their own animations. Animation I don't really care about but i wanted to put examples.

Exception to this is Archery. I know, realistic set, but GAWD it's boring to watch to me :P

OK, looking at your basic concept:

You've got a melee fighter whose defenses are based on emitting and absorbing radiation. The two primary examples for radiation defenses in the game are the Radiation Emission powerset and Shivans.

Radiation Emission focuses first on debuffing foes, with -DEF, -ToHit, -Dmg, -Res, -Regen, -Recharge, and -Speed all making appearances. Next, buffing of allies starts with Radiant Aura (team heal), continues into Accelerate Metabolism (+Dmg, +Recovery, +Recharge, +Speed, and status protection), and ends in Mutation (ally rez with +Recharge, +Recovery, +Dmg, +ToHit).

Shivans, on the defensive side, are listed as having damage resistance to energy, cold, fire, and negative.

The melee classes have to have some sort of protection versus smashing and lethal damage, as nearly all melee attacks include one of these two damage types. So, combined with the Shivan resistances, you're looking at the six most common damage types, S/L/F/C/E/N, and nothing yet for toxic or psionic. To not stray too far from Shivans, smashing and lethal protection should not dominate. As bodies emitting massive amounts of energetic particles, what's a little more heat or energy? To go with that, they should have plenty of energy to spare to combat cold and negative energy damage. All in all, fairly balanced between S/L/C/N, higher for F, and highest for E. The only thing I can think of for justifying toxic defenses is that their abnormal physiology wouldn't be affected in the same way as normal bodies by venoms and acids and such; I would maybe justify a toxic resistance as part of an ongoing regenerative effect, but not as a general part of the radiation emission.

The buffs and debuffs of Radiation Emission offer a different way to run melee defenses, closer to a mix of Fiery Aura and Regeneration, with nearby defenseless enemies that can't punch their way out of a paper sack, and increased damage, attack rate, recovery, and regeneration for the character.

What you came up with:

Your resistances seem entirely wrong to me - you've got lethal, smashing, and negative at decent levels, and energy might be a tad low, but you've got off-the-charts unenhanced protection from toxic damage, yet nothing for fire or cold. The absence of psionic resistance is in line with my above assessment. If anything, toxic should be in-line with negative, along with fire and cold, energy can be that high or a little more, and lethal and smashing should be there or lower. If you have some melee-range debuffs, the primary source of lethal and smashing damage - melee attacks - should be limited enough to make up the difference.

Along with the two toggles and one auto-power for resistances, you have three damaging powers - just like Fiery Aura does. The effects of the damage powers are different - you have the -DEF debuff for the Tier 2 power, you have a Heal/Regen effect (instead of END/Recovery) for the Tier 5, and Hold versus Disorient (for Dark Armor's Oppressive Gloom) for the Tier 8. You've also co-opted Lightning Reflexes from Electric Armor, but added a +Recovery effect as well. You didn't take advantage of radiation's debuffing capabilities to cripple your foes' strengths.

You have a stealth power here ... for tankers and brutes, this makes no sense, certainly not even as much as Energy Aura and much less than Dark Armor. If anything, you should have an aura that blinds foes, improves perception, and nulifies stealth powers nearby. This would probably be a good choice to swap out for Hide or they could adjust this to a more powerful click power that can act as a PBAoE Placate.

I almost never comment on Superman Tier 9's, as they are their own monsters, and should be compared first to each other and not used to balance the set.


What I would want you to do:

1. Swap out your Tier 5 healing Consume for a (timed?) toggle debuff, probably in line with Enervating Field (-Dmg -Res(all)).
2. Swap out your Tier 6 stealth for the blinding aura, above.
3. Swap out your Tier 7 auto-power for a click self-version of Accelerated Metabolism, either keeping the added status protection or improving the recharge.
4. Change your resistance powers to be Tier 1 30L/30S/30E +Regen, Tier 3 30F/30C/30N +Regen, Tier 6 20E +Regen (or 30E and less +Regen). You end up with a good blend of the 6 most common damage types, with more in energy, but nothing for toxic or psionic.
5. Your Stalker swaps are Hide as Tier 1, Tier 1 +res to Tier 2, drop Tier 2 damage aura, and change Tier 6 blind to placate,

The new set is less of a re-colored version of bits and pieces of existing melee defense powersets, and more in line with established CoX precedents for radiation powersets. Feel free to take or drop whatever you like from what I've offered.

I agree on the S/L being possibly too high. Ill look into it. Reason why the Fire/Cold is low because in my mind (I'm no nuclear engineer) Fire and Ice is not good for reactors. Energy and toxic should be high yes but I don't see Negative Fire and Cold being high resist. Reason why I'm not putting in -Regen because then it starts to become a Defender or Trolller. I tried to stay away from making a GM soloer.

It's a Armor type though. To use Debuffs to cripple the foes to make you stronger in survivability reminds me of a Defender. It shouldn't rely on debuffs.

So kinda like Arctic Air but with no confuse. Stealth powers won't matter if you taunt (Gamma Pulse, Cloak of Irradiation, actual taunt, attacks) And it won't effect your threat level because most stealth powers don't effect threat level anyway. It will prob be the placate and if it isn't then oops ill need to change that. Gamma Pulse will prob become the Hide. If you don't want the stealth on the Tank/Brute then don't grab it. Everyone will have a choice to take it or leave it like the Energy/Dark Armors.


But those are Radiation Emission powers. They don't belong in a Armor set. Won't make sense.

These I will look into.

Very Nice assessment there. Thanks

om nom nom!!!!!