incarnate powers for thugs/dark

My MM has been unplayed literally for like 5 years, even though he was around level 40. I just got sick of the playstyle and never felt like playing him. But I've just started playing him again, and with some changes to the build, it's actually fun. So after of 5 years at 40, he might actually get to 50 after all. Once that happens, it's incarnate time.

(I will not be spending much at all on this guy....mostly SO's with some random IO/HO)

For alpha I'm thinking vigor. Never tried it before, and all the effects would be very helpful on my build. Would cardiac or spiritual be a significantly better option? Or even musc?

For destiny, I'm pretty sure on clarion, because mezzes are annoying for me.

Ion for judgement, one of the new dmg proc interfaces, and some random lore I haven't decided on yet.

For those that have incarnated their thugs/darks, what do you think?

It's tough to say without seeing your planned build as we do not know what you really need. Checkout the Intuition Radial Alpha. Enhances holds (Bruiser, Petrifying Gaze, Dark Servant), damage (Thugs, Gang War), slow (Tar Patch), defense debuff (Enforcers), tohit debuff (Darkest Night, Fearsome Stare, Dark Servant) and range (several secondary powers).

Here's my current build. By 50 I will also have darkest night, scorp shield, and super speed. I plan to just stay with SO's, like I mentioned.

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So no other thoughts? I've realized I really need help with endurance, so either vigor or cardiac is pretty much a must.

I have Musculature on my Thugs/Dark and I love it. However, he is heavily IO'd out, so if endurance management is a big concern for you then you might want to go with Vigor (or, alternatively, go with Ageless Destiny). I'm not sure if I just loaded it wrong, but it looks as if the build you gave just has blank slots, which doesn't really allow for a good evaluation of the build. It might be possible to help you fine-tune your endurance usage based on slotting, but only if we can see the slotting.

I find that with Thugs, enhancing the damage with Musculature means I kill things much faster (especially once you have a damage Interface on top of that), which equates to less endurance expended. I run full Leadership on mine and Dark Embrace, so I have about the same number of toggles you have. Since you're going to be vip and thus have Inventions available, you might consider adding just a few simple IOs to your largely SO build such as a -KB IO or two and a Numina +rec/+reg. Add in some Accolades and you might not need to go with an endurance management alpha after all. Also, Musculature boosts EndMod (makes Stamina work better).

That's my argument for Musculature, anyway. Hope it at least gave you some food for thought. I went with Reactive as my primary Destiny as I have good KB protection and plenty of breakfrees, but I do have a Clarion on backup for UGT trials, Carnies, Rikti, etc. I don't generally play Tankermind style on mine, however, and I note you've taken provoke so you may be adopting a different style of play than what I do. YMMV.

Thanks Justaris. Not sure what happened with the build...it does have SO's in place, and a -KB IO in combat jumping. I would probably consider musc if I had more then just stamina as my +recovery powers. But my problem isn't really recovery...it's that all the powers take soooo much end. When I jump into a spawn and use 3-4 powers, I am pretty much completely out of end. After that I don't need to do much else (except spam the heal), so it recovers pretty fast...but the initial "alpha strike" just about drains me each time. That's the main thing I want to address.

But yeah, I will try using the numina and miracle uniques and see if they help.

The new bug with MM henchmen is really making things difficult though. About half the time I zone, I completely lose control of my pets. Can't even despawn or respawn them. Has to be the biggest bug I've seen in a while, since it basically makes MM's completely unplayable.

I will preface this post with the comment I am not attacking you..

Supermax with all politeness and respect your post pretty much reflects the same amount of interest you had with this build since 2005.

Your first post give no idea of what your build is but you talk about incarnates asking what might be good. The only thing we know is your gonna use SOs and maybe HOs.

When your told a build might be helpful. So you post a semi complete build and you just seem a bit too lazy to list the last 3 power in your Mids build so you type out what they are instead.

Then someone says your build is borked so instead of reposting what the build should be you sort of continue on about the incarnate stuff and describing when the endurance issues are.

Look this isn't work and it shouldn't be work. But if your gonna take the time to post and ask for help you honestly need to make a good faith effort to do your part.

But at the end of the day if you really don't know then just go Cardiac its the best thing for endurance issue builds. Yes other Alpha incarnates will afford you better things in certain areas, but if you have no endurance it really is a moot point.

And since its obvious you not familiar yourself on how to determine this we are sort of at a stand still.

What I can tell you the standard for minimal endurance recovery is usually 2 to 1. Basically when your subtracting endurance use from endurance recovery, you should have 2 points left over. Anything else will cause you issues. I had a blaster with 1.86 and I needed Cardiac. I even pick up Musculature later thinking it might be just as good but I get extra dps and it just was not, so I went back to Cardiac.

Other then that post a real build and lets see what can be done to fix your issues. Because next week someone will come asking the same question. At least we have something to point them at.

Plainguy you're kind of late to the party. I made the thread just to get some ideas from people that have done this. I don't really need help with my build, and I don't need anybody to hold my hand and show me what to do. I've gotten like 9 toons to +3, so I know what I'm doing with incarnates. I just wanted people to share what they did with their MM's in order to give me some ideas...which I got.