Consideration for a Night Widow build: What am I doing wrong?
With ML, +Def numbers are very high, as in iTrial soft-cap. Is that your intent? My feedback would vary depending. If iTrial soft-cap is not your stated goal, you can lose a LOT of +def bonuses for recharge and/or HP.
I'm not a fan of CT:O, at all, for a Widow. Mind Link, TT:L and the cherry on top, Kismet, give you 26% to-hit buff. All of your attacks are well over 95% final to-hit without CT:0. Too bad it doesn't resist -tohit debuffs, that would make it at least interesting to consider, but truly wasted on a mature NW. Take anything else, I'd go for Placate. If you are going to incarnate soft-cap, Leadership:Maneuvers can provide a massive boost (VEATs get the highest value for this, with Defs).
Will you be fighting with Super Speed toggled on? If not you can lose the End Red.
A Ribosome is very expensive to get 2%ish psi resists (11.3 vs 13.3). I'd go for an vanilla End IO in its place.
I don't see an Alpha selected. From your build it's clear you're "endurance risk averse" and rightfully so. Leveling up my Widows could be cruel at times due to endurance woes. With Cardiac "It gets better". I have 2 lvl 50 widows both with Cardiac and endurance is now a non-issue.
That's it for now, I have other comments but they may be moot based on your Defense goals.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
iTrial soft cap wasn't an intentional goal. I was however trying to get to the soft cap without Mind-Link to cover for Mask presence losing 1/2 it's defense when seen and to give additional buffer for defense de-buffs when using Mind-Link. Also for times when I fail to notice Mind Link is up, which I'm sure will occur. I suppose I did go a touch overboard on defense. What would you change?
I'm not adverse to rearranging things to include Placate instead of CT:O. I did have to admit I had noticed how high I had my total accuracy. Wouldn't be worrying about hitting things in the midst of CoT: Spectrals.
Part of the reason I have as much +end and +recovery is because of how much recharge I already have in the build and to cover things when I exempt down below 45. This also frees me up to look at other options for my alpha slot, beyond Cardiac.
I believe I have Ribosome floating around in inventory somewhere. I won't be purchasing one should I actually throw one into IW. I couldn't make up my mind where to throw the last slot or two so it ended up there.
I did forget to mention that yes, I do plan on keeping SS running at all times, unless I somehow find my endurance dropping mid battle.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
Your build is what I would call a "Blood Widow" build. Basically you are using all claw/dart attacks with follow-up and no mental attacks.
I have a build like this and I can tell you that endurance cost is a concern. I have Tier 4 Cardiac and I may still run out of endurance.
There are some minor differences between our builds. My blood widow takes Tough. Yes, as great as SoA's defense is, Widow has no resistance to S/L and that's going to be majority of melee damage that can kill you in one hit.
I didn't take Swipe. With enough recharge, you barely need this attack at all. I took Poison Dart just to have one range attack.
I also didn't take Super Speed. I've been using temp fly for a long time. :P
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Looking at the last 5 sales as of my typing this, Ribo sales varied between 200M - 250M. Even if you have one laying around the base, I'd sell it, save for a rainy day or heck, e-mail it to me, but to use it to gain an additional 2 percent to one damage type is fingernails on a chalkboard to me.
Anyway, just directionally speaking, maybe target 50-52% def with Mask Presence suppressed but including ML, that would give you a buffer of one Cim debuff to stay soft-capped. You'll get into the rythem of ML in no time. Switch some of the Def granting sets and use a +Rch granting set, for example switch to 5 oblits in Eviscerate. Maybe a 4th spot in Smoke Grenade for Dark Watchers. Decimation in Poison Dart, that sort of thing.
Another thing to think about - double Assault is pretty sweet, 30% dmg buff for you and team.
The beauty of a NW is it's hard to do it wrong. I've taken 2 NWs and a Fort to 50 and even the 2 NW builds are pretty different. One plays sort of like a ranged widow and the other is more traditional melee. Both are very satisfying.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
I'll look at your build once I get home, it looks similiar to mine except I swapped dart for gloom and skipped out TT:L, TT:M and swipe for boxing/tough/weave. I'm also running a second assault toggle instead of TT:O. The build is solid as it has crazy survivability + massive damage (I'm running 285 DPS currently with muscular alpha + reactive interface, and my new upcoming build should push it to 290ish+ - but we'll see).
My view on defense and recovery: get as much defense as possible and don't sweat the end woes as a NW will always have issues unless you go the cardiac or ageless routes. 55%+ ranged/AE defense and 65%+ melee coupled with the 6% smoke grenade debuff will mean that x8 spawns of PDD will no longer be a threat to you.
And as for endurance, you only need as much as it takes to kill off your opponents - I'm running 4.11/sec recovery with the IO bonuses, uniques, accolades and two +2.25 end bonuses and have a minumum of 80% end reduction in all toggles and attacks. I can attack for about two minutes nonstop, which is plenty of time to lay a spawn to waste. If I need more recovery than that (like when Back Alley Brawler arrives in AV form at the end of the PI bank mish) I attack until I'm almost dry, then pop elude and finnish.
Since I went the double assault route I took core muscular alpha - coupled with FU, global damage bonuses and the occasional guassian proc it makes for some great carnage. Which is why I pointed out the endurance issues on a NW - it won't go away unless you correct it with incarnate powers, but if you build your widow for sheer damage the endurance isn't as important. Again, as long as you have enough to kill your target without dropping toggles that's all you need. You can recover on the way to the next spawn =)
Just my 2 cents, there's a lot of ways to build and play a widow, this is how I play mine.
The only widow build I have not tried is a control-heavy Fortunata. I've tried a traditional stealth build up night widow with mental attacks, blood widow with follow-up and no stealth and all-ranged fortunata who is my main.
Has any of you made a control-oriented Fortunata that focuses on using confuse, mag 4 stun (takes too long IMO), aoe hold, aoe confuse and may be the hold procs?
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Deacon, as I mentioned, throwing the Ribosome into IW was a bit of an after thought, and not something that I'm tied into by any means. You shouldn't be worried about any finger nails on chalkboard with any of my revised builds as I'm sure I'll find a different spot for the slot. I agree that the Ribosome in IW is a waste. I also agree that CT:O is a bit overkill for accuracy needs and I'll swap it out for something else. While I do have a stalker and I use placate, it's not a power that I can say I'm overly fond of. I can see why it's useful, but I'm on the fence on whether I like it or not, but it's certainly something I will consider.
Going for more recharge in the attacks using Crushing Impact, Decimation and Oblits as you mentioned actually gets me up against the Law of 5 for 5% recharge bonuses. On top of that, while I do like Oblit's in powers with a very long recharge, it's not great for powers with high endurance cost and a reasonably quick recharge like I've gotten out of Eviscerate in this build. I'll certainly look at the attacks again and may focus more on Frankenslotting then on set bonuses.
Double assault is also very tempting and certainly something else I'll consider.
I do appreciate the feedback.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
Your build is what I would call a "Blood Widow" build. Basically you are using all claw/dart attacks with follow-up and no mental attacks.
I have a build like this and I can tell you that endurance cost is a concern. I have Tier 4 Cardiac and I may still run out of endurance. There are some minor differences between our builds. My blood widow takes Tough. Yes, as great as SoA's defense is, Widow has no resistance to S/L and that's going to be majority of melee damage that can kill you in one hit. I didn't take Swipe. With enough recharge, you barely need this attack at all. I took Poison Dart just to have one range attack. I also didn't take Super Speed. I've been using temp fly for a long time. :P |
Hm... changing things out and adding in Tough for some s/l resistance... hm....
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
I'll look at your build once I get home, it looks similiar to mine except I swapped dart for gloom and skipped out TT:L, TT:M and swipe for boxing/tough/weave. I'm also running a second assault toggle instead of TT:O. The build is solid as it has crazy survivability + massive damage (I'm running 285 DPS currently with muscular alpha + reactive interface, and my new upcoming build should push it to 290ish+ - but we'll see).
My view on defense and recovery: get as much defense as possible and don't sweat the end woes as a NW will always have issues unless you go the cardiac or ageless routes. 55%+ ranged/AE defense and 65%+ melee coupled with the 6% smoke grenade debuff will mean that x8 spawns of PDD will no longer be a threat to you. And as for endurance, you only need as much as it takes to kill off your opponents - I'm running 4.11/sec recovery with the IO bonuses, uniques, accolades and two +2.25 end bonuses and have a minumum of 80% end reduction in all toggles and attacks. I can attack for about two minutes nonstop, which is plenty of time to lay a spawn to waste. If I need more recovery than that (like when Back Alley Brawler arrives in AV form at the end of the PI bank mish) I attack until I'm almost dry, then pop elude and finnish. Since I went the double assault route I took core muscular alpha - coupled with FU, global damage bonuses and the occasional guassian proc it makes for some great carnage. Which is why I pointed out the endurance issues on a NW - it won't go away unless you correct it with incarnate powers, but if you build your widow for sheer damage the endurance isn't as important. Again, as long as you have enough to kill your target without dropping toggles that's all you need. You can recover on the way to the next spawn =) Just my 2 cents, there's a lot of ways to build and play a widow, this is how I play mine. |
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
Why go Weave instead of TT:M? Both have the same base 5% defense, Weave costs .33 end/sec compared to TT:M's .21. On top of that TT:M also helps your team mates.
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Also, like Jibikao, I am a huge believer in tough on widows - coupled with scaling resists your widow will go into "unstoppable mode" once it gets to the 200-300 hp mark. It ED caps at @ 24% S/L, but throw in the resist unique and a few sets of gladiator's strike and you're pushing 31%, or what your typical bane spider runs.
As a stress test I usually run a malta map on +4/x8 setting after a new build and it's a serious rush to watch my widow's health take a steep dive as a pair of gunslinger bosses, burn patches and turret pets push past your armor... only to have you finnish them off with a sliver of life left and your stat monitor indicating in a light blue font that you are sitting at the 85% S/L resist cap. It takes some getting used to because with some other characters you might either run or pop insps when the health dives, but on a NW using tough you end up at a point where you literally become indestructable vs. standard S/L content.
Hm... changing things out and adding in Tough for some s/l resistance... hm....
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To give you an example, my blood widow didn't have tough before and I got one-shotted by a +3 Ritki sword boss. I was fighting like 2-3 bosses at the same time and bang, one unlucky hit and I am dead.
I don't need to have a lot but you need some resistance so you don't get one-shot to death.
What's left is to normalize all Assassin Strikes and improve Stalker's old sets (Claw, MA and EM)! You don't need to bring back the missing PbAoE attack. You just need to make the existing ones better! For example, make Slice a WIDER and LONGER cone.
Another option if survivability is a concern would be to take Aid Self instead of Tough. That way you only end up burning endurance when you're actually dying, rather than running Tough all the time, when you rarely actually need it. Down side is that Aid Self has a stupid long activation time, but it is nice to get some self healing from time to time, especially in situations like UGT or Keyes where you're guaranteed to have incoming damage to deal with.
Thank you all for your feedback. Unfortunately I've been too busy till now to re-examine the Mids build. While I do understand the desire to get even more recharge out of this build, I'm going not going to go as far as was suggested. (Maybe somewhere down the line I might include a couple of purple sets to up the recharge.)
Where I have taken powers and slots in this build may or may not remain the same while I'm leveling up the character. I'll see how it plays out as I level up. (I know I've already selected a couple of powers earlier then in this build. I haven't decided if that's where they'll remain yet.)
Anyway, without further ado, here's what I'm planning on for now.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.953
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Foist 1934: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(3), LkGmblr-Def(11)
Level 2: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 4: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A), Winter-ResSlow(5)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), Ksmt-ToHit+(46), LkGmblr-Def(48)
Level 8: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(11)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 16: Spin -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(40), FotG-ResDeb%(48)
Level 18: Slash -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Dam%(34)
Level 20: Smoke Grenade -- DampS-ToHitDeb(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(23), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(23)
Level 22: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def(25), GftotA-Def/Rchg(27), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 24: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 26: Eviscerate -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 28: Placate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Mind Link -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31), GftotA-Def/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Foresight -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(33), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), GftotA-Def(37)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def(36)
Level 38: Gloom -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(46), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42)
Level 44: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Boxing -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(50), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(50)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(43), Mrcl-Rcvry+(45)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(25), P'Shift-End%(45)
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Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
|
I have a SoA Widow that I've decided to revisit. He's currently lvl 22 and I finally started crafting a build for him.
This build has him soft capped with Mask Presence up before it's defenses are inhibited. Has perma Mind Link to make up for any deficiencies there. I think I've got a fairly good handle on endurance recovery vs. usage, but not 100% sure. Lots of recharge in the build as well without resorting to Purples.
All that being said, what would you do differently? How would you "fix" this if you think something's broken. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks in advance for taking the time to put some fresher eyes on this.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.953
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Foist 1934: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Swipe -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(3), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(7), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(3), LkGmblr-Def(11)
Level 2: Strike -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(7), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mako-Dam%(50)
Level 4: Combat Training: Offensive -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(5)
Level 6: Super Speed -- EndRdx-I(A), Winter-ResSlow(42)
Level 8: Follow Up -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(9), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(9), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- HO:Ribo(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(11)
Level 12: Lunge -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(15), Ksmt-ToHit+(46)
Level 16: Poison Dart -- Ruin-Acc/Dmg(A), Ruin-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Ruin-Dmg/Rchg(46), Ruin-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(48), Ruin-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 18: Slash -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(19), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Dam%(34)
Level 20: Spin -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(40)
Level 22: Smoke Grenade -- DampS-ToHitDeb(A), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg(23), DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(23)
Level 24: Mask Presence -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def(25), GftotA-Def/Rchg(27), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 26: Mental Training -- Run-I(A)
Level 28: Eviscerate -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 30: Mind Link -- RedFtn-Def/Rchg(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(31), LkGmblr-Rchg+(31), GftotA-Def/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Foresight -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(33), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), GftotA-Def(37)
Level 35: Tactical Training: Maneuvers -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36), GftotA-Def(36)
Level 38: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), RechRdx-I(39)
Level 41: Tactical Training: Leadership -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(50), GSFC-Build%(50)
Level 44: Tactical Training: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45)
Level 47: Elude -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Tactical Training: Vengeance -- GftotA-Run+(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: Marshal
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Conditioning
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(43), Mrcl-Rcvry+(45)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), P'Shift-EndMod(25), P'Shift-End%(45)
------------
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!