ATI card woes - FPS not going over 15 or so.
By
Blue_Blaze,
Posted on: 2011-12-20 05:48 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
HJT log:
Logfile of Trend Micro HijackThis v2.0.4
Scan saved at 7:44:51 AM, on 12/20/2011
Platform: Windows XP SP3 (WinNT 5.01.2600)
MSIE: Internet Explorer v8.00 (8.00.6001.18702)
Boot mode: Normal
Running processes:
C:\WINDOWS\System32\smss.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\winlogon.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\services.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\lsass.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\System32\svchost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\spoolsv.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
C:\WINDOWS\eHome\ehRecvr.exe
C:\WINDOWS\eHome\ehSched.exe
C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jqs.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\HPZipm12.exe
C:\Program Files\Linksys Wireless-G PCI Wireless Network Monitor\WLService.exe
C:\WINDOWS\Explorer.EXE
C:\Program Files\Linksys Wireless-G PCI Wireless Network Monitor\WMP54Gv4.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\dllhost.exe
C:\WINDOWS\RTHDCPL.EXE
C:\WINDOWS\zHotkey.exe
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static\MOM.exe
C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static\ccc.exe
R0 - HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://www.gateway.com/g/startpage.h...ys=DTP&M=W6409
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Page_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Default_Search_URL = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R1 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Search Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=54896
R0 - HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main,Start Page = http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=69157
O2 - BHO: Adobe PDF Reader Link Helper - {06849E9F-C8D7-4D59-B87D-784B7D6BE0B3} - C:\Program Files\Adobe\Acrobat 7.0\ActiveX\AcroIEHelper.dll
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O2 - BHO: Spybot-S&D IE Protection - {53707962-6F74-2D53-2644-206D7942484F} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O2 - BHO: SSVHelper Class - {761497BB-D6F0-462C-B6EB-D4DAF1D92D43} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\ssv.dll
O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Helper - {AA58ED58-01DD-4d91-8333-CF10577473F7} - C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar_32.dll
O2 - BHO: Google Toolbar Notifier BHO - {AF69DE43-7D58-4638-B6FA-CE66B5AD205D} - C:\Program Files\Google\GoogleToolbarNotifier\5.7.7018.1622\s wg.dll
O2 - BHO: Browser Address Error Redirector - {CA6319C0-31B7-401E-A518-A07C3DB8F777} - c:\windows\system32\BAE.dll
O2 - BHO: Java(tm) Plug-In 2 SSV Helper - {DBC80044-A445-435b-BC74-9C25C1C588A9} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jp2ssv.dll
O2 - BHO: JQSIEStartDetectorImpl - {E7E6F031-17CE-4C07-BC86-EABFE594F69C} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\lib\deploy\jqs\ie\jqs_plugin.dll
O3 - Toolbar: McAfee VirusScan - {BA52B914-B692-46c4-B683-905236F6F655} - c:\progra~1\mcafee.com\vso\mcvsshl.dll
O3 - Toolbar: Google Toolbar - {2318C2B1-4965-11d4-9B18-009027A5CD4F} - C:\Program Files\Google\Google Toolbar\GoogleToolbar_32.dll
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [RTHDCPL] RTHDCPL.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Alcmtr] ALCMTR.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [CHotkey] zHotkey.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Recguard] %WINDIR%\SMINST\RECGUARD.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [Reminder] %WINDIR%\Creator\Remind_XP.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PrinTray] C:\WINDOWS\System32\spool\DRIVERS\W32X86\3\printra y.exe
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IMJPMIG8.1] "C:\WINDOWS\IME\imjp8_1\IMJPMIG.EXE" /Spoil /RemAdvDef /Migration32
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [IMEKRMIG6.1] C:\WINDOWS\ime\imkr6_1\IMEKRMIG.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSPY2002] C:\WINDOWS\system32\IME\PINTLGNT\ImScInst.exe /SYNC
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PHIME2002ASync] C:\WINDOWS\system32\IME\TINTLGNT\TINTSETP.EXE /SYNC
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PHIME2002A] C:\WINDOWS\system32\IME\TINTLGNT\TINTSETP.EXE /IMEName
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvCplDaemon] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvCpl.dll,NvStartup
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [NvMediaCenter] RUNDLL32.EXE C:\WINDOWS\system32\NvMcTray.dll,NvTaskbarInit
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [PWRISOVM.EXE] C:\Program Files\PowerISO\PWRISOVM.EXE
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [APSDaemon] "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Apple\Apple Application Support\APSDaemon.exe"
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [StartCCC] "C:\Program Files\ATI Technologies\ATI.ACE\Core-Static\CLIStart.exe" MSRun
O4 - HKLM\..\Run: [MSConfig] C:\WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\Binaries\MSConfig.exe /auto
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [Power2GoExpress] NA
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [ctfmon.exe] C:\WINDOWS\system32\ctfmon.exe
O4 - HKCU\..\Run: [SpybotSD TeaTimer] C:\Program Files\Spybot - Search & Destroy\TeaTimer.exe
O8 - Extra context menu item: E&xport to Microsoft Excel - res://C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\EXCEL.EXE/3000
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jp2iexp.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Sun Java Console - {08B0E5C0-4FCB-11CF-AAA5-00401C608501} - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jp2iexp.dll
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {39FD89BF-D3F1-45b6-BB56-3582CCF489E1} - c:\program files\mcafee\spamkiller\mcapfbho.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: McAfee Anti-Phishing Filter - {39FD89BF-D3F1-45b6-BB56-3582CCF489E1} - c:\program files\mcafee\spamkiller\mcapfbho.dll
O9 - Extra button: Research - {92780B25-18CC-41C8-B9BE-3C9C571A8263} - C:\PROGRA~1\MICROS~2\OFFICE11\REFIEBAR.DLL
O9 - Extra button: Real.com - {CD67F990-D8E9-11d2-98FE-00C0F0318AFE} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\Shdocvw.dll
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {DFB852A3-47F8-48C4-A200-58CAB36FD2A2} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Spybot - Search & Destroy Configuration - {DFB852A3-47F8-48C4-A200-58CAB36FD2A2} - C:\PROGRA~1\SPYBOT~1\SDHelper.dll
O9 - Extra button: (no name) - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - C:\WINDOWS\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: @xpsp3res.dll,-20001 - {e2e2dd38-d088-4134-82b7-f2ba38496583} - C:\WINDOWS\Network Diagnostic\xpnetdiag.exe
O9 - Extra button: Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O9 - Extra 'Tools' menuitem: Windows Messenger - {FB5F1910-F110-11d2-BB9E-00C04F795683} - C:\Program Files\Messenger\msmsgs.exe
O16 - DPF: {6414512B-B978-451D-A0D8-FCFDF33E833C} (WUWebControl Class) - http://update.microsoft.com/windowsu...?1303084608244
O20 - AppInit_DLLs: C:\PROGRA~1\Google\GOOGLE~1\GOEC62~1.DLL
O22 - SharedTaskScheduler: Browseui preloader - {438755C2-A8BA-11D1-B96B-00A0C90312E1} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\browseui.dll
O22 - SharedTaskScheduler: Component Categories cache daemon - {8C7461EF-2B13-11d2-BE35-3078302C2030} - C:\WINDOWS\system32\browseui.dll
O23 - Service: Ati HotKey Poller - ATI Technologies Inc. - C:\WINDOWS\system32\Ati2evxx.exe
O23 - Service: Google Update Service (gupdatem) (gupdatem) - Google Inc. - C:\Program Files\Google\Update\GoogleUpdate.exe
O23 - Service: Java Quick Starter (JavaQuickStarterService) - Sun Microsystems, Inc. - C:\Program Files\Java\jre6\bin\jqs.exe
O23 - Service: NVIDIA Driver Helper Service (NVSvc) - NVIDIA Corporation - C:\WINDOWS\system32\nvsvc32.exe
O23 - Service: Pml Driver HPZ12 - HP - C:\WINDOWS\system32\HPZipm12.exe
O23 - Service: WMP54Gv4SVC - GEMTEKS - C:\Program Files\Linksys Wireless-G PCI Wireless Network Monitor\WLService.exe
--
End of file - 7658 bytes
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
I know this might seem a bit mad but I had the exact same problem. If you pull up CCC while running the game you may notice that your clock speeds seem to be quite low. Mine where at 400/900 when they should have been at 800/1100 or something like that.
By fluke, I noticed that when I wasn't running windows DreamScene on my desktop/home screen, my CCC displayed a clock speed of 150/300 when Idle but shot up to 800/1100 when in game (this is normal procedure as it throttles the speed of your GPU depending on what you are actually doing). The earlier seemed to be creating a bottle neck of some sort.
So, try turning off any DreamScene/livewallpaper that you might have running along with any other applications that might be using GPU power, no matter how small)
Hope this helps.
@EU Blue Blaze
A couple of thing I'm noticing there
You have a wireless network driver there - are you actually connecting over wireless as that can affect game performance.
The other is that you only have 1Gb of system RAM and your pagefile usage is showing 500Mb out of 1Gb used. If you are having to swap memory to disk on a frequent basis that will cripple performannce - generally you will see lots of nasty red lag spikes corresponding to the page requests.
I'd suggest loading up Perfmon or even task manager and monitoring page requests/disk usage to confirm if that is a problem or just a one off issue.
Oh wait - integrated graphics on the MB. Check that this is actually disabled in the BIOS
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
Quote:
Yep, looks like it's staying at idling speeds of 137/300 while playing CoH instead of around 700/800 where it should be. I couldn't seem to force it to clock up, either. I don't run DreamScene or livewallpaper or any other applications at all while I run the game.|
Originally Posted by Blue_Blaze
I know this might seem a bit mad but I had the exact same problem. If you pull up CCC while running the game you may notice that your clock speeds seem to be quite low. Mine where at 400/900 when they should have been at 800/1100 or something like that.
By fluke, I noticed that when I wasn't running windows DreamScene on my desktop/home screen, my CCC displayed a clock speed of 150/300 when Idle but shot up to 800/1100 when in game (this is normal procedure as it throttles the speed of your GPU depending on what you are actually doing). The earlier seemed to be creating a bottle neck of some sort. So, try turning off any DreamScene/livewallpaper that you might have running along with any other applications that might be using GPU power, no matter how small) Hope this helps. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gaia
A couple of thing I'm noticing there
You have a wireless network driver there - are you actually connecting over wireless as that can affect game performance. The other is that you only have 1Gb of system RAM and your pagefile usage is showing 500Mb out of 1Gb used. If you are having to swap memory to disk on a frequent basis that will cripple performannce - generally you will see lots of nasty red lag spikes corresponding to the page requests. I'd suggest loading up Perfmon or even task manager and monitoring page requests/disk usage to confirm if that is a problem or just a one off issue. Oh wait - integrated graphics on the MB. Check that this is actually disabled in the BIOS |
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
Quote:
Bear in mind that the game requirements increased with GR. Whilst most of this applies to Ultra Mode graphics, several maps both zonal and mission, costume options - both PC and NPC and powersets have been revamped increasing the graphical load even when not using UM.|
Originally Posted by Righter
I've been using the same wireless connection and 1GB of RAM to play the game just fine for years. I don't think that's the problem, considering the only thing that changed was the graphics card. Integrated graphics are disabled in the BIOS. Again, the only game I'm having trouble with is CoH so far. |
Also are all the other games you are running using DirectX? CoH is an OpenGl game and so they may not be directly comparable.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
Quote:
Essentially, what's going on is that your system itself, using OpenGL, can't keep the video card "fed" with data. It simply doesn't have the processing and memory resources.
|
Originally Posted by Righter
I used to have an GeForce 8500 GT and that ran the game just dandy. Then that died and I had to use the integrated graphics, and even that ran... playable. I could get 60 FPS with my resolution set pretty far down. A few days ago I got an HD Radeon 6750 and everything was cool. It ran all my other games perfectly, so I loaded up CoH... and it caps at about 8-15FPS no matter what I change my graphics to. Por ejemplo: uno, dos.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Dinosaur CPU and 1GB of ram.
Central Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 1022MB
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
Quote:
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Originally Posted by newchemicals
Dinosaur CPU and 1GB of ram.
Central Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs) Memory: 1022MB |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Essentially, what's going on is that your system itself, using OpenGL, can't keep the video card "fed" with data. It simply doesn't have the processing and memory resources.
|
It's probably time to redo the whole system. Memory is super cheap these days--you can get 4GB for $20 a lot of the time... but you'll still be spending at least a couple hundred getting a decent new motherboard and processor.
Father Xmas posts a lot on these forums, and tends to have links like this one in his signature to help out people who need to upgrade their computers on a budget. You can probably drop the case, power supply and maybe even the hard drives (though I usually recommend getting new ones when building a new system)--and obviously the video card, since you just bought a new one--to save yourself some cash and still have a very respectable system.
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
No, no, I don't think you're getting it. The game ran fine with my current RAM and processor with a worse video card and also integrated graphics. There's no reason it should run worse with a better video card when every other game works fine.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA
Quote:
Different hardware. ATI operates OpenGL software differently than Nvidia. The rest of your system is still too slow to fully take advantage of the video card you've installed. Most modern games run on DirectX instead of OpenGL.|
Originally Posted by Righter
There's no reason it should run worse with a better video card when every other game works fine.
|
(And despite being an ATI user myself, I won't lie and say that the game doesn't run better on Nvidia hardware... but with the rest of your specs, you wouldn't have any sort of massive performance increase by using an Nvidia card instead of the ATI card you purchased.)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
Main Villain: Evil Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1193 Badges
Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
-----
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Righter
No, no, I don't think you're getting it. The game ran fine with my current RAM and processor with a worse video card and also integrated graphics. There's no reason it should run worse with a better video card when every other game works fine.
|
Yes. Actually there is.
These video cards require a certain amount of computational power from the parent machine. And they don't really react well to being starved of data.
Moreover, I'm betting most of your "every other game" are all DirectX-based games. These load a card and system down differently than an OpenGL game does.
OpenGL generally requires higher system resources than DirectX does. There are myraid reasons for using it too. First is that OGL is multiplatform. Moreover, it's development isn't controlled by a single company. So if Microsoft deprecates DirectX *INSERT VERSION*, the game doesn't need to be rewritten from scratch or "go away" or suffer in some lousy "compatibility mode".
It ran fine on the old card because the old card wasn't requesting data from the parent system with the frequency and volume that your current one does. Your parent system can't handle the load.
'Nuff Said.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
I used to have an GeForce 8500 GT and that ran the game just dandy. Then that died and I had to use the integrated graphics, and even that ran... playable. I could get 60 FPS with my resolution set pretty far down. A few days ago I got an HD Radeon 6750 and everything was cool. It ran all my other games perfectly, so I loaded up CoH... and it caps at about 8-15FPS no matter what I change my graphics to. Por ejemplo: uno, dos.
Changing resolutions, fullscreen to windowed, every single graphics option I could find, useTexEnvcombine, changing the settings in the CCC, turning sound on/off, etc., nothing I tried has worked. Indoors, outdoors, in missions, Rogue Isles, Praetoria, Paragon, all within the same 8-15 FPS window. I was originally using the 11.10 Catalyst drivers, then I switched to 11.9. No difference. I guess I'll try going further and further back down the line today to see if one of them works. Otherwise I'm starting to get kind of stumped, here. You should not get better performance out of an integrated graphics card than an actual new one. I hope I'm not overlooking something glaringly obvious, here.
CoH Helper:
---System information gathered by CoH Helper version 0.2.0.2---
DxDiag gathered at December 20, 2011 07:21 (-05:00)
Operating System: Windows XP Professional (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 3 (2600.xpsp_sp3_gdr.101209-1647)
System Manufacturer: GATEWA
System Model: W6409
BIOS: Default System BIOS
Central Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 1022MB
.Net Memory Report: 532MB out of 1021MB available
Page File: 1068MB (524MB currently in use)
C Drive: (WDC WD1600BB-00RDA0) 37222MB out of 147212MB (25%) free
D Drive: (WDC WD1600BB-00RDA0) 3482MB out of 5401MB (64%) free
E Drive: (HL-DT-ST DVD+-RW GSA-H21N) zero-size drive
Windows directory location: C:\WINDOWS
DirectX: DirectX 9.0c (4.09.0000.0904)
DirectX Diag version: 5.03.2600.5512 (32-bit version)
Display Notes: No problems found.
Sound Notes: No problems found.
Input Notes: No problems found.
Monitor: Plug and Play Monitor
Monitor's Max Resolution: 1600,1200
Video Device Name: AMD Radeon HD 6700 Series
Manufacturer / Chip: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. / AMD Radeon Graphics Processor (0x68BF)
Video Memory: 1024.0 MB
Driver Version: 6.14.0010.7218
Driver Date: 9/8/2011 12:25:42 PM
Driver Language: English
Sound Device Description: Realtek HD Audio output
Driver File: RtkHDAud.sys
Driver Version: 5.10.0000.5247
Driver Date: 4/17/2006 6:31:26 PM
WMI Information
Motherboard Manufacturer: Intel Corporation
Motherboard Model: (empty)
Motherboard Product: D102GGC2
Motherboard Version: AAD70214-201
BIOS Manufacturer: Intel Corp.
BIOS Name: Default System BIOS
BIOS Version: GATEWA - 7da
BIOS Release: 20060817000000.000000+000
Registry Information for Current User
Resolution: 1440x900
3D Resolution: 1440x900 (Not using renderscale)
Full Screen: Yes
Maximized: No
Screen Position: 0, 0
Refresh Rate: 60Hz
Vertical Sync Enabled: No
Physics Quality: None
Maximum Particles: 100
Max Particle Fill? 10.000
Physics Card Enabled: No
Anti-aliasing: Off
Anisotropic Filtering: None
Texture LOD Bias: Crisp
Water Effects: None
Bloom: 1.000 (turned off)
Depth of Field Enabled: No
Desaturation Effects (Sepia) Enabled: No
Shader Detail: Unknown (4)
World Texture Level: Unknown (3)
Character Texture Level: Low
World Detail Level (Vis_Scale): 0.500
Entity Detail Level: 0.300
Shadows Enabled: No
Shadow Mode: Disabled
Shadow Map Shader: High quality
Environmental Reflections: Disabled
Advanced Occlusion Settings: No
Ambient Occlusion: Off
Occlusion Strength: Off
Blur: Bilateral
Ambient Resolution: Performance
Gamma Correction: 1.000
Geometry Buffers (VBOs) Enabled: Yes
Suppression of FX When Camera Close Enabled: Yes
Close Suppression Range: 3.000
Show Advertisements: Yes
Audio Mode: Performance
3D Audio: No
FX Sound Volume: 0.500
Music Sound Volume: 0.500
Show Advanced Graphics Options: Yes
Overall Graphics Quality: 0.000
Reverse Mouse Buttons: No
Save Login Username: Yes
Transfer Rate: Unknown bytes/second
Current Game Version: 2010.201105021815.1.0
Installation Directory: C:\Program Files\City of Heroes
Mod files in the Data directory
.\texture_library\MAPS\city has 1 file
.\texture_library\MAPS\Midnight_Squad has 1 file
.\texture_library\MAPS\Safeguard has 9 files
.\texture_library\MAPS\sewers has 44 files
.\texture_library\MAPS\static has 38 files
.\texture_library\V_MAPS\City has 1 file
.\texture_library\V_MAPS\Outdoor_Missions has 9 files
.\texture_library\V_MAPS\Static has 16 files
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. --- Thomas Jefferson
Formerly known as YFNDBA