Tri-Form Proposition A'La Bionut :)

Okay guys, I know I've been drawing out this post for a WHILE now, but it's finally here!!! I've put a lot of thought into this...so please make sure to read through the whole thing before you jump to conclusions!!!


*THIS IS THE FIRST DRAFT, SECOND TO BE POSTED SOON*

Anyways, After many helpful replies on my "Research Thread" (Linked Here) I've fashioned up an proposition that could, hopefully, bring Kheldians closer to the lore behind them. Now a days, only people very familiar with Kheldian's know what the forms are apart from "Squid" and "Lobster."

From my research I've found out two things that really pushed me towards this idea:

1. In the end-game, some people find that Human form Peacebringers more appealing then nova and dwarf.
2. Both heroes and villains are supposed to have their own unique epic archtype; comparatively the villain side epics are viewed as stronger when compared to the amount of investment required.

1. Players will skip forms and go human form only, slotting the human form blasts as they see fit
2. They will take the early on tier 1,2,3 blasts to fill a power choice, then devote slots to the nova form blasts and leave the human blasts un-slotted and ignored.

1. Around level (EDIT)32 create an arc specific for Kheldians where they have to save their Kheldian counterpart from a Nictus plot. In turn, the success of this are will bring you closer with your Kheldian Half. This would give you a better understanding of your Kheldian's Abilities and therefore unlocking more of your Kheldian's Powers. These powers would unlock at level (EDIT)35. Just like regular Epic Pools.
2. This pool could be a "Kheldian Adept" pool that would give you access to a previous Kheldian Host: The White/Black Tauri or Kheldian "Essence Mastery."

Peacebringer Adept Power

Since the other forms seem to mimic the available human form abilities, I think it would only make sense to provide a new form that mimics the other human form abilities available, but they would be buffed versions. These could include:

• A Stronger version of pulsar that provides a to-hit debuff to every target it hits. This way any enemies that aren't stunned have lower accuracy. This power, if used, could NOT stack with the human form Pulsar.
• Edit: Apart from this, a PBAoE imobolize ability could be another option that would eliminate the Knockback Issue everyone harps the developers about.
• Two melee attacks, one with High damage (possibly a bite attack) and a (Edit)cone attack* with Moderate damage (A Claw Swipe). As for my little depictions...keep reading to find out
  EDIT:
  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Diggaroo I think the Moderate damage attack should be a cone swipe. Otherwise the powers may feel too similar to Dwarf which has two melee attacks like the sort. A High Damage single target attack, a Moderate cone attack, and a PBAoE Immobilize (that should deal some damage, even if minor) sounds darn swell.

• Along with this, Joe suggested that:
  
  Quote:

  Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe So you've got some problems in power choices to iron out. I honestly think your best option might be to choose two aoe and two single target attacks from each one and replace the secondary effects like knockback and stun with mag 1 fear that stacks and is unslottable. Give the form itself an auto mag 1 fear aura and it has a stacking control that is little resisted. With enough recharge you could fear a boss.

Another suggestion made by joe was for Kheldians to be locked into two form choices, so it would be either. Nova/Dwarf, Dwarf/Tauri, or Nova/Tauri. That way Kheldians wouldn't have their feet in every field, but there would be more variety to what a Kheldian can provide to a team.

or

You could allow Kheldian's to have access to all three forms, although there would be a slot crunch players wouldn't easily be able to have two super powered versions of the same power, like pulsar.
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Warshade Adept Power

Edit: Now thank's to Joe's commentary I've realized that the Warshade side of Kheldians would need to be considered in the Black Tauri's Abilities. Since warshades have a variety of mitigation tools in their current powers, then I think one of two things are in order:

1. Team buffing abilities, rather than mitigation. Here's a good example provided by Diggaroo's Feedback:
   
   Quote:

   Originally Posted by Diggaroo I'm not too big on the Pulsar. I've never really liked it to begin with anyways. I'd prefer something along the lines of an ally buff. Maybe a roar of some sort that buffs allies near you with damage increase or something along those lines. Either way, Pulsar just seems too non-epic for such an epic idea.

2. Enemy Debuffing Abilities, rather then team buffs. Thank's to THB's playful reply in my research thread, I considered the idea of a -Regen debuff aura (doesn't stack with itself) for the form toggle itself. And secondary -regen attacks baked into the cone swipe, and also the bite attack.

Thanks to a statement made by Zemblanity in my research thread I realized that the true strength of Kheldian's are that they are a "Jack-of-all trades, Master-of-None." Since most people view Nova as a blaster, and dwarf as a Tank, I think the AT could use some damage mitigation other than insanely high KB. In higher level content, KB isn't enough to take on some foes, so the Tauri could fill the place of the "Mitigation" in the Kheldian Tool Box we have at our disposal.

Another thing to note, currently what decides the void between human form and shapeshifting is what powers you pick. You have two pools to pick from, and you can choose the human powers, or the forms...because in the end there might not be enough slots for every power you want.

*Note: The name doesn't matter...I just picked the Tauri because it was a cool sounding name for a star that hasn't yet reached "main phase"*

This form could have an component that gives attacks a chance to paralyze the enemy with fear (on the PB side) and a chance to lower the target's regeneration (On the WS side).
Along with this, the form toggle itself would provide some melee survivability like dwarf, but it wouldn't be as formidable during prolonged fights. It could give a 10-15% defense buff, and a small HP Boost (less than dwarf.) This way, in melee range it won't get hit as often, but in a longer fight it won't last as long as dwarf because it has less health and no mez protection. It's survivability would be determined from the Mitigation it provides.

Now, why a FEAR component do you ask?
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Being an animation student, I thought it would be fun to do some preliminary sketches from some inspirational pictures that I've found, but I didn't really have the time...since I'm doing some other x-mas themed drawings for some friends of mine

Since I didn't have the time for that, the best I can do is post the picture I found inspirational for a Form choice.



For this form, I imagined a slender but fierce looking beast. This would be on all fours. By Thinning out the current dwarf armor, adding more sharpness to the edges of dwarf's rounded armor plates it could be made alien like. It could have a spiked back, similar to dwarf, a nova form's tail, and the trademark White/Purple Kheldian eyes.

This seemed like a more thoughtful suggestion to me simply because of all of the "beast like" additions CoX has been seeing. For example: the vanity Shepard, the animal pack, Beast run, and the Coyte movement power I've heard about on the open beta (turns you into a dog or something like that, kinda like walk.)

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Now I bet you're saying: MORE FORM POWERS?!? We're slot starved already!! Good news is that I put some thought into this part as well.

Since the game is Balanced around SOs, I did not put IOs into consideration for this idea. Therefore any arguments like "Now I can't do perma-LF" aren't very valid here.

• (The way I see it, the changes to LF made human form more desirable, so this proposition would make forms equally as desirable w/o expensive investment needed)

With this, I went into mids, picked the form abilities, 5 slotted every attack, then grabbed the fighting pool as a place-holder to show where the slots for these new powers would be coming from. Here, I found that you can devote a decent amount of slots to the form abilities (5 estimate for the attacks and sublimation) and still have some left over for dwarf itself, and both self heals in human-form, two on hasten, and 4 on seekers, WITH 5 slots left over in the end.

*NOTE: the tough pool is a place-holder to show you where the slots for these new form abilities would be going*

Here's a Screenie for you



In this screen, the only powers that aren't picked are the human form clones, and the toggle shields...which get turned off when we shape shift anyways.

Now, if everyone believes that the slot crunch would be a major issue here. Joe made a pretty good suggestion that I mentioned above, but here it is in full detail:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe With regard to the slot problem, you could always have Tauri be mutually exclusive with either nova or dwarf. In other words, Kheldians can only have three "active" forms at one time per build that they can switch to, and one of those will always be human.

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Edit: Essence Mastery

Edit: Thanks Kemphler & New Dawn for giving me motivation to continue working on this idea as well as Adept Mastery.

Since this proposition provides more abilities to a form'd peacebringer, (EDIT:I previously said this section was for human formers, but new dawn kind of pointed me in the right direction). I wouldn't want that to be the only option available because not all Kheldians need a new form, but better buffs to the forms they have.

Now, Kheldian's have some things to worry about Outside of their forms. Firstly, without dwarf they have no mez protection. In this pool we could provide a mez protection click power, similar to practiced brawler.

What other abilities do you think need to be added?
(I haven't been able to fully develop this idea, because I play tri-form a lot and seemed to have a sort of writer's block in this area.)

New Dawn gave some good suggestions for this section:

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Dawn A passive that offers quicker shift changes. A break free power which can mean you don't have to have Dwarf form. A passive that suppresses toggles and doesn't allow them to toggle off when form changing. Kheldian flavour of combat training offensive, assault or even tactics to help further save on slots. Ideas that may cost a powerslot and so in improving flexibility one way you have to forfeit something in another.

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Now, say what you will, I don't mind. This idea has been tearing at me for days and I've been wishing I had something like this...because I'm not exactly thrilled with my human form Peacebringer's feel. By optimizing performance I've turned Speedy Avenger into something that isn't fun to play any more. Before I knew what the IO system was, Speedy Was an alien being who was fun as hell to play. Now, to me he feels like a glorified energy blaster with white Fx....

Apart from me Spilling my guts right there, I hope you guys found something interesting about this. In this post i'm not trying to say anything bad about Kheldians, or stereotype them either. I'm simply finding a way to make this idea seem feasible and add some more fun & spice to Kheldians.

As long as forms require such massive amounts of investment in slots and shape-shifting time for little-to-no performance benefit, they just won't be worth it. Increase their performance while reducing shifting time and reducing slot investment.

I wouldn't say no to Kheldians having access to their own Epic pool (but I wouldn't tie it to a Story Arc), but I don't see it as a major issue. Currently, we have lots of tools in our Primary and Secondary sets which are simply not working well, and not working well together.

Another form? Some people may call that crazy. I for one think it's brilliant! And neat idea for a form as well. I'd enjoy turning into a cat-like predator like the one you've imagined.

An Epic Kheldian Pool is exactly what this AT needs imo. Although, I'd like to suggest something for the powers of the new form you've suggested;

I think the Moderate damage attack should be a cone swipe. Otherwise the powers may feel too similar to Dwarf which has two melee attacks like the sort. A High Damage single target attack, a Moderate cone attack, and a PBAoE Immobilize (that should deal some damage, even if minor) sounds darn swell.

I'm not too big on the Pulsar. I've never really liked it to begin with anyways. I'd prefer something along the lines of an ally buff. Maybe a roar of some sort that buffs allies near you with damage increase or something along those lines. Either way, Pulsar just seems too non-epic for such an epic idea.

Also, brilliant idea for the story idea as to unlocking this Epic Power Pool. Saving your Kheldian self from the big bad Nictus and achieving harmony with your Kheldian sounds just like something that would happen in a comic book. I love it

All in all, fantastic idea imo. I give it a double thumbs up and hope the devs read this. They could probably learn a thing or two from this post

PS: Please do some sketches of what you had in mind. I can guarantee you that it will probably be my new desktop background if it is as epic as my mind sees it :P

Edit:

I'd also like to suggest another fix to the "Slot Starvation" problem; the form and its powers come with 2 additional slots already. I'm not sure how that'd range on the scale from gimped to OP, but it's just a suggestion that definitely isn't set in stone

Interesting idea - and the slot crunch will be an oft-repeated problem with it.

One thing to note - epic pools are unlocked at 35 now, not 38.

I like the idea of a controller-type form, with the caveat that it's probably not something the devs are willing to devote animation time to. Light Form has the current animation for the stated reason that the animation team is backed up for something like years.

But don't let that deter you. I'd like to see the form's powers and the form itself as a power fleshed out some more. Peacebringers and Warshades have very different control powers, so if you're going to have the powers be stronger versions of human form powers you're going to have two very different power combinations between warshades and peacebringers.

Off the top of my head, Warshades have Inky Aspect, Gravitic Emanation, Gravimetric Snare, Gravity Well (for the hold) and Unchain Essence (for the stun) in their control arsenal. So - normalizing the damage in favor of strengthening the controls, you've got powers to choose from.

If you discount knockback (as your suggestion implies), Peacebringers have Incandescent Strike (for the hold) and Pulsar. Not so many powers here.

So you've got some problems in power choices to iron out. I honestly think your best option might be to choose two aoe and two single target attacks from each one and replace the secondary effects like knockback and stun with mag 1 fear that stacks and is unslottable. Give the form itself an auto mag 1 fear aura and it has a stacking control that is little resisted. With enough recharge you could fear a boss.

With regard to the slot problem, you could always have Tauri be mutually exclusive with either nova or dwarf. In other words, Kheldians can only have three "active" forms at one time per build that they can switch to, and one of those will always be human.

Tri-Formers adapt to situations not just for themselves but for the team. You can have a end game human form that's competitive with the best specs and have a Decent Dwarf to tank with plus a Nova that can offer increased range capabilities and dps whilst at it. Effectively you can have a duct tape energy/energy blaster what can turn into a very useful tank.

VEATs are incredibly well put together I can't dispute that but they are more obvious than Khelds in terms what they can do for the team and how to get the best out of them. You still end up dropping one flexibility for another due to limited power picks and slots. It'll take some excel time to seperate the objective from the subjective. I still feel that Khelds are cleverly thought out.

On the forums you get what? 5% of the players? Then out of them you get only so many come to the Kheldian section, then out of them most of them will follow a trend. Often people take advice, follow it as law rather than be more curious and question it. As a Triformer, I can human form, dwarf or Nova and do very decent damage, very decent damage is the rough equivalent to about 3 damage slots in every attack. I am only missing Glinting Eye and Gleaming Blast, 2 attacks untaken, all attacks taken unignored. What people do is down to them, what people have the potential to do is another thing.

To the Epics. You can imagine that most people who took a Kheldian by now had a rough idea what one will turn out like. In putting in something new it's often nice to do something that is universal and satisfy anyone with a concept. A build on the kheldian idea. This form your suggesting makes for a stronger blapper, why keep human? Well ya don't and ya have 6 powers spaces as you have so skilfully shown in that build where 4 lotgs would go nicely in 4 powers, then take pulsar and haste. So essentially what you'll get is a better blapper with a new form. I am not convinced on the fear component, it's something best suited for Warshades. Another pulsar allows for stacking which would make your peacebringer a more phenomenal blapper. It's like I can see where things are heading. All this is a massive buff to Peacebringers falling not much shorter than me asking for Tankers to have immortality.

I still like the idea of a new epic, but if you notice with epics they're never stronger. They're weaker by comparison. You take an AoE, it would be weaker than it would be if it was in your main powersets. There are certain powers that Warshades have that Peacebringers can't have and visa versa, powers that when an all kheld team come together other ATs aren't essential because between the two they potentially pretty much have all they need on offer to get by but I'd imagine there would be some reason for a Dev not to allow it. New epic powers could exist, something that benefits both Kheld types. Atleast 4 out of the 100s of ideas that have been presented to the Devs could be universal.

A passive that offers quicker shift changes. A break free power which can mean you don't have to have Dwarf form. A passive that suppresses toggles and doesn't allow them to toggle off when form changing. Kheldian flavour of combat training offensive, assault or even tactics to help further save on slots. Ideas that may cost a powerslot and so in improving flexibility one way you have to forfeit something in another.

I am not dismissive of your ideas, not at all, all this is just a perhaps "temporary" opinion of someone who has yet to think that Khelds are a weak AT, objectively and so can't agree on obvious buffing and a cool new form

By the way, Thanks for all of the replies, feedback, and suggestions everyone! I appreciate it so much!

Firstly, thanks for the feedback. Be it positive or negative, it's always taken into consideration.

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Dawn I didn't say a passive mezz protection, I said a Break Free power, which as you quoted it doesn't suggest a passive, you just click it like a Break Free. Each sentence in the second from bottom paragraph is a different idea, perhaps I should of seperated them. Bare in mind, I am producing ideas for both types of Khelds for a more universal epic set a break free power would be far more useful to a Warshade but because it also clears away what Eclipse doesn't protect ypu from too like a BF would, its still viable. You imagine jumping into a mob and suddenly being confused, all them powers relying on enemy targets would just be useless.

Sorry about that, I mis-read that. With that in mind, I don't see anything wrong with a break-free power being available in the Essence Mastery Idea. Again, I apologize. >.<

I originally planned to work out two options for a Kheldian Epic Pool, but as I've said before I hit a "writers block" and posted the idea that I was on a roll with (I edited in a section of the OP specifically geared towards the exact pool you're mentioning.) I never stated that Kheldian's would only unlock ONE epic pool, that would be downright unfair...considering VEATs have access to multiple Lore based pools as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by New Dawn Your third form makes Human form look weaker and the Human form attacks become skippable. That's my issue with your idea for now and why I came up with ideas that cross both types of Khelds thinking along a more universal vein.

With that being said, couldn't you say that the recent changes to light form and photon seekers makes Bright Nova and Dwarf look weaker?

Although your idea IS running along a common thread, some players don't know enough about Kheldians to play them like a tool-box.

I remember back when I played my Kheld before I took a vacation from the game. The way I played him was exactly like this:

• If the team needed a blaster, I lived in Nova form. Never left it
• If the team needed a tank, I never left dwarf form.

Now with that in mind, it wouldn't exactly be fair to players who live in one form at a time, to provide powers that are based around the play style of "All forms at once." For example, If i lived in nova form then I wouldn't need a power that reduces my shift animation time...because I never leave that form to begin with. So giving me a new form to choose from would be beneficial to me. Just like providing a Break-Free power, and shorter shift times would be beneficial for you.

(note: I do agree with your ideas & I think they're fantastic, I'm just pointing out that using ONLY that option for an epic pool wouldn't be fair to people who don't exactly utilize the entire tool-box they've been given)

The point of having two pools, an Essence mastery and an Adept Pool/Power (new form) is that it allows players of multiple playstyles to gain a benefit from choosing a Kheldian Epic pool.

For example, if you wanted to improve the effectiveness of the toolbox playstyle you could pick essence mastery. But if you were happy with the way the forms are or you play the game one form at a time then the Adept Pool would be a better option for you. Ya know?

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The most unique thing about Kheldian's is their ability to shapeshift, no other AT in the game has anything like this at all. That's what the Adept Pool highlights. Along with this, your suggestion for an epic pool would high-light the toolbox nature.

If a player is happy with using dwarf as a break-free, and happy with their current combat stats, it wouldn't be fair to only make ONE Mastery pool that provided things that this hypothetical player doesn't see a need for. That's why I'm suggesting we make two options available, this way both play styles are catered to.

I would also like to put out there, that after a week or so of this being re-fashioned with you Kheldian users in mind, I'll re-post the refined idea (hopefully a more well written version) on the general forums for other people to see.

I just need home help from you guys on terms of refinement.